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The Sabbath

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posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Since I am extremely tired because I've been at the hospital most of the night and part of the day with a sick daughter, I will answer a little of these posts at a time. I'd like to start out with below.

You write>>Is the following Old Testament Sabbath scripture still in effect today:

I write>> The so-called OT Sabbath is the same as the NT Sabbath. Yahushua the messiah kept the sabbath, all the true followers of Yahushua (Jesus) kept the sabbat. In Acts 13:13-15, 16:13, 17:1-3, 18:4-6, you'll see the the Apostle Paul and all his companions kept the sabbath and not only the Jews, but also all the converts to Christianity from the nations. I also gave references to show that it was still being kept in the 5th century C.E. by most of the world.


You wrote>>quote:
Exodus 35:3
Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
Or how about the following O.T. Sabbath scripture:

I write>> Doing a half-hearted study about something will not prove anything. Would it surprise you to know that the Scriptures teach the opposite of what you're trying to state?

Exod. 35:1-3, These are the words that Yahweh commanded them to do. Six days work may be done and on the seventh day it shall be sacred for you, a Sabbath sabbathon (ceasing of ceasings) FOR YAHWEH. Everyone doing work in it shall be executed. You shall not baar (kindle) a fire in all your dwellings on the day of the Sabbath.

To start with, the kind of starting of a fire here *baar* is not merely talking about simply lighting a fire for someone to stay warm or for cooking a meal. The type of fire it's talking about starting is a fervent fire. Like when someone is doing brick-making, some kind of tool-making, this takes a very high fire. Simply lighting a fire, the word "alah" is used like when the word is used to express the lighting of the lamps in the tabernacle.

Next, take these verses together to put what is being said into context. The Hebrew term that's translated to kindle "baar" is associated with the word "work" that is previously spoken. This word is malakath, which means "work, employment."

For example, notice this: Everyone doing WORK in it shall be executed. You shall not baar (kindle) a fire in all your dwellings on the day of the Sabbath.

This shows you that this type of kindling a fire was work that the Israelites were doing when Moses was instructing the Israelites on the building of the tabernacle of Yahweh. They were not to do this work on Yahweh's sabbath. This type of kindling of fire (baar) is also a blazing fire that would kindle humans (see Isa. 43:10). And also, the kindling by the unquenchable fire of Yahweh.


Tiza




posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by sensfan
There were no "days" when God made earth (not that I believe that but that's another thread). The days of the week came along much later. The "spirit of the sabath" is still intact. Work for 6 days and rest on the 7th. I don't think anywhere in the bible it states that you must rest on Saturday, or Sunday, or any particular day.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Hello, Sensfan:

I don't know what Bible you're reading, but all the Bibles that I own teach the sabbath day, i.e., 7th day.

And the first part of your response reveals to me that it doesn't matter for you anyway because you don't trust that there was a creator.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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double post

[edit on 23-1-2005 by Ashlar]



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
The sabbath is supposedly a day of rest as evidenced by: Gen.2:2.

It is on this day God ended his work, a day which he created, also as evidenced as 2:2.in that his work was created on each of 6 days, which means he worked to create each day, the 7th being no exception, lazy day or not. And nowhere in Genesis does it determine that Saturday is the 7th day.

Constantine out of spite for the Jews declared Sunday to be the sabbath. he had no regard for religion, he cared only about politics, and the politics of the day was his hatred for the Jews, and his desire to outdo the Pesach.

Yet it is evident that with Jewish chronology, the 7th day was a rolling day given their interpretation of the calendar.

Hence: The sabbath could be Thursday for all we know.

[edit on 1/21/05 by SomewhereinBetween]


Hello,
Well, nowhere does it state that it's okay to be "lazy" on the sabbath day. The sabbath does not mean "rest" either as most people think and what is usually translated. It means to cease, meaning to cease from our work employment to do Yahweh's work. Yahweh's work is things Yahushua the messiah did on the sabbath day, since he was sovereign of the sabbath anyway. He was the one who blessed it and set it apart for sacredness on the seventh day of the creation week, BTW.

As with the murdered Constantine, he was against anything seeming Jewish, but it was all because of the Bar Kockhba revolt in 133-135 C.E. It was during this time that Rome was trying to distance themselves from anything seeming Jewish, as they considered the Christians at that time as being a Jewish sect.

If you'll study more on this, though, you'll see that the true Christians were not anything like the Jewish religion even though Rome was saying they were like them. The early Christians, the true followers, were against the teachings of the Pharisees (same as Judaism).

Another point, the days of the week have never changed throughout history. Why would Yahweh start his calendar, command all of mankind to keep it, then somehow allow it to become changed? Not!!! The SEVENTH day has always been the SEVENTH DAY.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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for the son of man is the lord of the sabbath



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Tiza

You shall not baar (kindle) a fire in all your dwellings on the day of the Sabbath.

Tiza


What part of "all your dwellings" is confusing you?

By the way, sorry to hear you have an ill child



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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many of us are forgeting that jesus and his apostles frequently broke the sabbath

MATT 12
1
At that time Jesus was going through a field of grain on the sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat them.
2
When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "See, your disciples are doing what is unlawful to do on the sabbath."
3
He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry,
4
how he went into the house of God and ate the bread of offering, which neither he nor his companions but only the priests could lawfully eat?
5
Or have you not read in the law that on the sabbath the priests serving in the temple violate the sabbath and are innocent?
6
I say to you, something greater than the temple is here.
7
If you knew what this meant, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned these innocent men.
8
For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath."



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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You write>>The Apostle Paul said that the believing gentiles do not have to be circumcised and do not have to follow the Jewish commandments to be saved.


I write>> The act of fleshly circumcision, which is one of the works of the Torah (a dogmasin) is not the same as the 10 eternal commandments. A good book for you to read if you are serious in your scriptural studies is called "The Festivals and Sacred Days of Yahweh," which you can download for free at yahweh.org in their publications section. It explains this in detail and gives you a lot of study references and proofs from the Scriptures on what a dogmasin is, a commandment, feast day, etc.

BTW, why do you say "Jewish commandments"? Nowhere in scriptures does it state Jewish commandments. As a matter of fact, Abraham will receive the eternal inheritance (eternal life) and the reason why is stated in Gen. 26:105, esp. v. 5, "...because Abraham obeyed my voice and he attended to my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws."

Abraham was not Jewish, i.e., the tribe of Judah (Judah=Jews) was not even born yet.

Also, Yahushua the messiah stated that the sabbath was made for mankind, and he never says just the Jews. It never says this. Like others, you're making things up.


You write>>There is only one denomination that believes that Christians are required to keep the Sabbath day and that is Seventh-Day Adventistism. They have cult tendancies and these links are enclosed for you to read. Their founder is Ellen Gould White and she lived from 1827 to 1915.

I write>> Hogwash! I'm not an SDA and I have kept sabbath for many years. I started keeping the sabbath when my husband and I started researching it years ago and found out that all of mankind is to be keeping it. The only thing you'll find to even say we don't keep sabbath is faulty human reasonings and excuses. Even the teachings of the NT teach sabbath(s), which includes the high sabbaths, i.e., feast days as well as the rest of the eternal commandments.

And it might surprise you to know that there are Baptists who keep sabbath, many of the first founders of our country kept the sabbath and many other people keep in. There are a whole lot of people keeping sabbath who are not SDAs.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by TizaWell, nowhere does it state that it's okay to be "lazy" on the sabbath day.
I did not state it as such, the word was followed by " or not" to mean from one end of the spectrum to the other, and I agree with your definition of what it means.


If you'll study more on this, though, you'll see that the true Christians were not anything like the Jewish religion even though Rome was saying they were like them.
I agree.


The early Christians, the true followers, were against the teachings of the Pharisees (same as Judaism).
And here I disagree. I will address the Judaism statement first, where unless I misunderstand your phraseology, you state Judaism was against the Pharisees. This is not so, first and foremost because the Pharisees also fell under the Judaism umbrella. They shared in the councils of the high priests and held to the traditional sense of the laws of Moses. What separated them from the other two main sects was that they believed in resurrection, afterlife, angels and spirits, and preferred oral tradition. With that then, you can see that the authors of the NT also believed in all of those, despite whatever chastisement came the way of the Pharisees by Jesus. And while I dislike using Paul as a reference to anything, it is relevant to address your early Christian tag, for he a Pharisee himself while openly criticizing them, felt no compunction to play his Pharisee card-carrying get out of jail free membership when he needed to.

Now to get back to the sabbath day. One can apply if they wish that there are only seven days because Gen.1, says God created everything in 6 and rested on the 7th. That might suggest a finality of sorts, yet it is not so. For we have come to accept that 7 days is all there is to one week, and each of those days is derived at by the appearance of the sun in the morning and moon at night. Logically we know that God could not have created everything in 7 days and rested on the seventh, unless you want to call 358.25 or so periods of sun and moon that 7th day, a great concept for the working masses, but I digress. Hence, in order to know that God rested on Saturday, it would have had to be known that there was a 7 day lunar concept representative of a week with a specific term assigned for each of those days; that he created everything based on that lunar day; and exactly what day of that 7 day cycle he chose to rest. So back to my point then on the calendar being wrong. the Hebrew calendar was shy 11 days every year until adjusted 3 years later, and just as we wake up every day and call it by an assigned name every seven days, in days of yore by the time the first 15 days had passed, a solar day already distorted the timeframe for the days of the week. And if using a lunar day, that distortion occurred by the 82nd day.

The jubilees were diligently observed based on lunar standing, for example with Rosh Hashana starting on a new moon. Therefore to say the Sabbath will always be a Saturday is not so. But certainly it would be ridiculous to have the Sabbath day begin at all hours of a lunar day and by periods of 8, 9 or 10 days etc.

I hope all is well with your daughter.



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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Tiza,

I don't see anything wrong with refraining from employment on the Sabbath day, if that is what your conscience tells you to do. In fact, the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans that if your conscience tells you to do something -- and if you disobey it -- then you are morally wrong. Conversely, there are some of us who walk by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ to meet our needs, to include the need to be sanctified by His finished work on the cross. By faith in Christ, we no longer have a need to keep the Sabbath day in order to be pleasing in His sight. What Christ did on the cross has completely fulfilled anything that we could ever do here on this earth to merit our entry into His kingdom.

Now, the Apostle Paul also warned us that if we have faith in this area, but if it causes our brother to fall, then we need to keep our faith to ourselves. And with that in mind, I would not want to cause you to stumble. If your conscience convicts you to honor the Sabbath day, then by all means, please continue to do so.

.



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 07:16 PM
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There is only one denomination that believes that Christians are required to keep the Sabbath day and that is Seventh-Day Adventistism. They have cult tendancies and these links are enclosed for you to read.


Yxboom, you talk about these people as having cult tendencies when you are flashing around a masonic aviator?
Is this suppose to be a joke?

Really, this evil sect doesn’t seem too nasty to me, unless nasty sects like to create hospitals, health food companies and aid/relief organisations.



SDA's beleive that you must still hold to the 10 commandments, strictly, and that those who worship on Sunday have the spirit of antiChrist.


Yes, they do believe that the 10 commandments are important and should be followed.

The majority of people that worship on Sunday are ignorant of the significance of the day. It doesn't mean that they are all filled with the spirit of 'the anti-christ' as you put it. They are worshipping God as best as they know how. Seems like sntx was in this category.



To be a member of these sects, you have to believe that Joseph Smith or Ellen White (respectively) are latter day prophets.


Ummm no again. Looks like you are quite ignorant about this organisation as your comments show. I guess I am in a better position to argue the case for the SDAs seeing I am one
Ellen G White was prominent in the early church but was not the singular leader as you would insinuate. It was a group of people that had a common belief. And there is no doctrine that you have to believe she is a prophet to be a member of the church.



Anyways, all of these sects believe that they are the one true church and if you aren't with them, then you aren't among the saved.


Umm, no again. Your really not having that much luck are you.

Over all though, there has been some interesting discussion here with some good content by sntx, tiza,BeefotronX and others. I will try to input when I have some more time.



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 07:35 PM
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Hello shmick25,

You're a Seventh-Day Adventist???
Okay, let me ask you a couple of questions.
  • Is it true that once the SDAs have preached to you about going to church on Sunday -- if you reject their Saturday Sabbath message, and if you continue going to church on Sundays, then they believe that you have accepted the mark of the beast or the spirit of anti-Christ??? Or is this belief anything remotely similar to what Adventists teach?


  • Can you be baptized as a Seventh-Day Adventist while openly confessing that that Ellen Gould White was not a prophet of God?


[edit on 23-1-2005 by Yxboom]



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 07:37 PM
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You write>>And here I disagree. I will address the Judaism statement first, where unless I misunderstand your phraseology, you state Judaism was against the Pharisees. This is not so, first and foremost because the Pharisees also fell under the Judaism umbrella. They shared in the councils of the high priests and held to the traditional sense of the laws of Moses.

I write>>You are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. First off, Pharisaism (those who later became the Talmudists) and Judaism are the same religions, just that Judaism is the modern-day name of it. And this is not the religion of the OT. The Pharisees were not even a group until somewhere around 160 B.C.E. The religion of the OT was Yahwehism. And in Judaism, they follow the oral traditions, which were not in existence until after their Babylonian exile. When Yahushua the messiah was born, the religion of the Pharisees was still a pretty new religion, in fact. He was born on Oct. 3, 7 B.C.E. See "The Festivals and Sacred Days of Yahweh, " Section I entitled Different Jewish Schools. While this is about the Passover and different ways certain groups kept it, you'll learn a lot of history about the Pharisees and the Sadducees. You can download it free at yahweh.org

You write>>What separated them from the other two main sects was that they believed in resurrection, afterlife, angels and spirits, and preferred oral tradition. With that then, you can see that the authors of the NT also believed in all of those, despite whatever chastisement came the way of the Pharisees by Jesus. And while I dislike using Paul as a reference to anything, it is relevant to address your early Christian tag, for he a Pharisee himself while openly criticizing them, felt no compunction to play his Pharisee card-carrying get out of jail free membership when he needed to.

I write>>Yes, I'm already aware that the Pharisees believed in the resurrection, however, they certainly do hold many false doctrines. One being their oral tradition. Yahushua had a right to chastise them-- meaning the scribes and the pharisees, because they were hypocrites and false teachers. They taught the sabbath day incorrectly, teaching manmade laws surrounding the sabbath day when a fence was built around the Torah. They taught the false ineffable name doctrine, which Yahushua was against. The Pharisees also taught the incorrect timing and method of keeping the Passover. BTW, they did not hold the ancient method but relied upon their own interpretations.

Saul (Paul) was an excellent teacher. He knew the truth and was an apostle too. Saul only taught what was the teaching of the OT, as these were the only things in existence at the time, meaning there wasn't a NT in existence. Saul was previously a Pharisee and this is why he had to relearn the Scriptures. Without Saul's teaching we'd be lost on a lot of information about the inheritance, THE TORAH OF TRUST. Saul's teaching enhances what is already taught in the OT.

You write>>Now to get back to the sabbath day. One can apply if they wish that there are only seven days because Gen.1, says God created everything in 6 and rested on the 7th. That might suggest a finality of sorts, yet it is not so. For we have come to accept that 7 days is all there is to one week, and each of those days is derived at by the appearance of the sun in the morning and moon at night. Logically we know that God could not have created everything in 7 days and rested on the seventh, unless you want to call 358.25 or so periods of sun and moon that 7th day, a great concept for the working masses, but I digress. Hence, in order to know that God rested on Saturday, it would have had to be known that there was a 7 day lunar concept representative of a week with a specific term assigned for each of those days; that he created everything based on that lunar day; and exactly what day of that 7 day cycle he chose to rest. So back to my point then on the calendar being wrong. the Hebrew calendar was shy 11 days every year until adjusted 3 years later, and just as we wake up every day and call it by an assigned name every seven days, in days of yore by the time the first 15 days had passed, a solar day already distorted the timeframe for the days of the week. And if using a lunar day, that distortion occurred by the 82nd day.

The jubilees were diligently observed based on lunar standing, for example with Rosh Hashana starting on a new moon. Therefore to say the Sabbath will always be a Saturday is not so. But certainly it would be ridiculous to have the Sabbath day begin at all hours of a lunar day and by periods of 8, 9 or 10 days etc.

I write>>Well, I must be a lot more tired than I think. You'll have to break down what you're trying to say. The sabbath day cycle was set in motion in the creation week on the 7th day. This has not changed.

Now, I trust the scriptural studies on the sabbath and trust what Yahweh has stated. I cannot see how some people can say Yahweh would somehow allow the correct sabbath day to be lost seeing as how he commanded for all of mankind to keep it. People must believe in such a weak creator.

Even Yahushua the messiah had no argument with the day the Jewish religious leaders were keeping as the sabbath, just their manmade fence built around it that created a burden for mankind.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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Tiza,

You did not address the following scripture, as it relates to the New Covenant:
    Exodus 31:14
  • You shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy to you.
  • Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death;
  • for whoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
If your going to take the Sabbath-keeping pill, then you're going to have to swollow the whole thing.


The above scripture says that non-Sabbath keepers are to be executed. But more importantly, what do you say???

.



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by TizaYou are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. First off, Pharisaism (those who later became the Talmudists) and Judaism are the same religions, just that Judaism is the modern-day name of it. And this is not the religion of the OT.
My claim is that Pharisees adhere to the strictest sense of the law and believe in: the law of Moses; resurrection: the afterlife: angels and spirits.

Let us examine this statement then and see where it leads. Were the laws come to be known as the law of Moses given by God to the ancients? The answer is yes.

Did the Tanakh speak to resurrection in a positive light? The answer is yes. Isaiah is to return.

Did the Torah speak to the afterlife in a positive light? The answer is yes. Enoch is a fine example.

Did angels appear to the patriarchs named in the Torah in a positive light? The answer is yes.

Did the Tanakh speak to spirits in a positive light? The answer is a resounding no, where conjuring the dead was met with rebuke.

So the Pharisees were 4 of 5 in agreement with the historic teachings. Which means that is by and large the teaching of the OT.


The Pharisees were not even a group until somewhere around 160 B.C.E. The religion of the OT was Yahwehism.
That does not matter when placed within the context as above. they were Jews, their faith was that of Judaism.


When Yahushua the messiah was born, the religion of the Pharisees was still a pretty new religion, in fact. He was born on Oct. 3, 7 B.C.E. See "The Festivals and Sacred Days of Yahweh, " Section I entitled Different Jewish Schools.
That is subject to interpretation and to calendrical choice. This is not the issue here.


While this is about the Passover and different ways certain groups kept it, you'll learn a lot of history about the Pharisees and the Sadducees. You can download it free at yahweh.org
Thank you, and I will take a look sometime, however my statements afore stand.


Yes, I'm already aware that the Pharisees believed in the resurrection, however, they certainly do hold many false doctrines.
Then since of those I have mentioned: the Torah, resurrection, the angels and the afterlife are all believed by the Pharisees, where the last three are key to Christianity, the label of hypocrite is superfluous. If jesus was looking for perfection, then he should have known not to come, for neither did he find it, nor did he leave it. The fact remains that Christianity relies on belief in resurrection; angels and the afterlife. This is the crux of their religion, the heart and sole of same. Without pushing this, all Christians would be a Jewish sect believing their saviour came and went.


Yahushua had a right to chastise them-- meaning the scribes and the pharisees, because they were hypocrites and false teachers.
He had a right sure, when considering the words attested to him. But was he absolutely correct? Did he mean to change the laws or enlighten them? This is a man who as you have confessed preached every sabbath, encouraged circumcision and at the same token yelled at all Jews for their antediluvian approach to God's laws. At the same token, it got to his head. He went up to the Mount of Olives seemingly expecting prophecy to split the mountain; he reinterpreted the one and only and indisputable creator's laws and declared many of them null and void; he quoted scripture incorrectly; he begged for his life, a life we are told he supposedly knew he was there to give. In other words, he has been depicted as having been cosunmed with himself, which I might add is vastly different to accountings thrown away by the church and declared heretic.


They taught the sabbath day incorrectly, teaching manmade laws surrounding the sabbath day when a fence was built around the Torah.
They may have taken the requirements of that day too far, with that I agree. But you cannot with any good conscience proclaim this and then turn around and say he taught them how to properly address the timing of the sabbath as well as the jubilees.


They taught the false ineffable name doctrine, which Yahushua was against.
And what exactly is this doctrine?


Saul (Paul) was an excellent teacher. He knew the truth and was an apostle too.
He was an imposter! A stealthy politician of the roman court who managed to relegate Jesus' choice for rock, Peter to the shadows, and alienate both James and Barnabas. This is a man who steadfastly repudiated every single law that Jesus followed. This is the man whose creedo is preached and practiced by every Christian church, and the man who most Christians love to quote over Jesus. This is a man who it is said by one of the first church fathers quoting John Mark did not write to the 7 churches, and what he did write to any was but a few lines. This man apparently was not smart enough to even notice that his personal physician claimed those he was with heard Jesus' voice, while he himself said no one but he heard. Why on earth would an apostle of Jesus walk with a personal physician, I ask you? This man is Paul Christos, mistakenly identified as Jesus Christ.


Well, I must be a lot more tired than I think. You'll have to break down what you're trying to say. The sabbath day cycle was set in motion in the creation week on the 7th day. This has not changed.
I am afraid it has changed. Either decide the days were based on lunar days or solar days, then refer back to what I say and explain to me how where a day, any day, regardless of being solar or lunar is exactly 24.00000 hours.


Now, I trust the scriptural studies on the sabbath and trust what Yahweh has stated. I cannot see how some people can say Yahweh would somehow allow the correct sabbath day to be lost seeing as how he commanded for all of mankind to keep it. People must believe in such a weak creator.
Please do not invoke the term YHWH when you advocate the NT. As I have said read it and explain it to me.


Even Yahushua the messiah had no argument with the day the Jewish religious leaders were keeping as the sabbath, just their manmade fence built around it that created a burden for mankind.
Why would he? He was but a man, learned only in what he knew.



[edit on 1/23/05 by SomewhereinBetween]



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 11:44 PM
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Is it true that once the SDAs have preached to you about going to church on Sunday -- if you reject their Saturday Sabbath message, and if you continue going to church on Sundays, then they believe that you have accepted the mark of the beast or the spirit of anti-Christ???


Why focus specifically on SDAs and the Sabbath and not open it up to what the Bible says regarding any of the laws? What if I tell a person that murder is wrong and they keep doing it? What if I say that lying is wrong and they keep doing that? Read the story about the prostitute in the new testiment and what Christ told her to do...

Has a person accepted the mark of the beast if they sin? Everyone has the mark of the beast if they do not have a relationship with Christ and ask for forgivness. What is the mark of the beast? Independence from God. Some people do believe that it could be the day of worship however, it is hardly church doctorine.



Can you be baptized as a Seventh-Day Adventist while openly confessing that that Ellen Gould White was not a prophet of God?


No idea, never tried. I personally have never read her writings. She does have some interesting things to say however.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by Yxboom
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You're a Seventh-Day Adventist???
Okay, let me ask you a couple of questions.

Is it true that once the SDAs have preached to you about going to church on Sunday -- if you reject their Saturday Sabbath message, and if you continue going to church on Sundays, then they believe that you have accepted the mark of the beast or the spirit of anti-Christ???

While I cannot speak on behalf of shmick, I can say that I am Seventh-day Adventist (as a mere point of interest for future reference, 'day' is not capitalized in the long spelling.) It is church doctrine that the proper day of worship is the Sabbath. Rejecting the Sabbath message is not the same as rejecting Jesus. Rather, Sunday observance is a man-made institution. While it is not inherently in direct opposition to Christ, it does create a situation where at some point in the future, there may be more issues linked to the observance of a day that will make the truth more important. The belief that Sunday observance represents the mark of the antichrist is only true in the eschatological sense. At the onset of the 'end times', Sunday observance will become associated with submitting to human authority in place of God, but at the present the day does not have the same sort of serious baggage.



Can you be baptized as a Seventh-Day Adventist while openly confessing that that Ellen Gould White was not a prophet of God?

In order to be baptized into this church one must accept the 27 fundamental beliefs. #17 is the gift of prophecy, which the church believes EGW received. Her own position was that she continually placed her work subordinate to the Bible, and urged that if any discrepancy is found, one is to take the Bible. While it is required that she be accepted, at least to some degree, the reality is that she is not actually necessary to support any of the church's main doctrines. There are many in the church who go for months without opening any of her books. One would be hard pressed to find another sect with a unique prophet given the same level of importance.

Furthermore the prior statements suggesting the church believes in exclusionary salvation, and that it is dependent on works, are just about exactly wrong. The SDA church maintains, as most other Christian churches maintain, that salvation is dependent on one thing, and one thing only: Jesus. Just because salvation isn't dependent on the 10 Commandments doesn't mean they should be disregarded. The proper frame of mind is that one should try to observe the Commandments as well as possible, but not to be stressed out over mistakes because the mistakes have been paid for already by Jesus. That doesn't mean neglecting any one commandment entirely is good, though.

Well I think I've cleared things up adequately.

[edit on 1/24/2005 by BeefotronX]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 05:46 PM
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First, please accept my apology if you have been offended by my reasonings and questionings of the Sabbath day issue. My intention is not to create offense, but rather, to create constructive discourse. Having said that...
    Exodus 31:14
  • You shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy to you.
  • Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death;
  • for whoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
No one has addressed the above Old Testament Sabbath command, as it relates to the New Covenant of grace. If you're going to take the Sabbath pill, then you have to swallow the whole thing.


What does this Sabbath command mean to you?


Let me know if you need an extra-big glass of water to attempt to swallow that giant Sabbath-day pill. And don’t worry about choking on it because I’m trained in the Heimlich maneuver. You're safe with me here.


[edit on 24-1-2005 by Yxboom]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 05:54 PM
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Actually it has been addressed. The penalty for sin (death) has been paid by Christ's sacrifice. This in no way frees us from being subject to the law. Willfully sinning makes a mockery of our Lords sacrifice for us. That is why Jesus instructed us to repent and sin no more. We can know what sin is by referring to God's commandments. Are there any other commandments you would like to be freed from, or is it only the fourth that you have a problem with?


Steve



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 06:20 PM
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Posted by sntx
Snip...
Are there any other commandments you would like to be freed from, or is it only the fourth that you have a problem with?

LOL



Posted by sntx
Snip...
The penalty for sin (death) has been paid by Christ's sacrifice.

It sounds like you're saying that Jesus was crucified to pay the death-penalty for Sabbath breakers.... and now we have to keep the Sabbath day since He paid for that death penalty for us. Is that what you're saying???



Posted by sntx
Snip...
This in no way frees us from being subject to the law.

So, before the cross of Calvary, Sabbath breakers should legally be executed, but after the cross of Calvary, Sabbath breakers should not be executed because of Christ's death on the cross --- but, they should continue to keep the Sabbath day, with the exception of the scripture that says that Sabbath breakers should be executed.

To be honest, this is not making any sence to me, at least not in the light of the New Covenant.



Posted by sntx
Snip...
Willfully sinning makes a mockery of our Lords sacrifice for us. That is why Jesus instructed us to repent and sin no more. We can know what sin is by referring to God's commandments.

Jesus specifically said who would not enter the kingdom of heaven, but He never said that Sabbath breakers were amongst this crowd. Nay, not once. Can you show me one New Covenant scripture where Christ categorized Sabbath breakers with liars, drunkards, fornicators or murderers?




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