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Originally posted by sensfan
There were no "days" when God made earth (not that I believe that but that's another thread). The days of the week came along much later. The "spirit of the sabath" is still intact. Work for 6 days and rest on the 7th. I don't think anywhere in the bible it states that you must rest on Saturday, or Sunday, or any particular day.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
The sabbath is supposedly a day of rest as evidenced by: Gen.2:2.
It is on this day God ended his work, a day which he created, also as evidenced as 2:2.in that his work was created on each of 6 days, which means he worked to create each day, the 7th being no exception, lazy day or not. And nowhere in Genesis does it determine that Saturday is the 7th day.
Constantine out of spite for the Jews declared Sunday to be the sabbath. he had no regard for religion, he cared only about politics, and the politics of the day was his hatred for the Jews, and his desire to outdo the Pesach.
Yet it is evident that with Jewish chronology, the 7th day was a rolling day given their interpretation of the calendar.
Hence: The sabbath could be Thursday for all we know.
[edit on 1/21/05 by SomewhereinBetween]
Originally posted by Tiza
You shall not baar (kindle) a fire in all your dwellings on the day of the Sabbath.
Tiza
I did not state it as such, the word was followed by " or not" to mean from one end of the spectrum to the other, and I agree with your definition of what it means.
Originally posted by TizaWell, nowhere does it state that it's okay to be "lazy" on the sabbath day.
I agree.
If you'll study more on this, though, you'll see that the true Christians were not anything like the Jewish religion even though Rome was saying they were like them.
And here I disagree. I will address the Judaism statement first, where unless I misunderstand your phraseology, you state Judaism was against the Pharisees. This is not so, first and foremost because the Pharisees also fell under the Judaism umbrella. They shared in the councils of the high priests and held to the traditional sense of the laws of Moses. What separated them from the other two main sects was that they believed in resurrection, afterlife, angels and spirits, and preferred oral tradition. With that then, you can see that the authors of the NT also believed in all of those, despite whatever chastisement came the way of the Pharisees by Jesus. And while I dislike using Paul as a reference to anything, it is relevant to address your early Christian tag, for he a Pharisee himself while openly criticizing them, felt no compunction to play his Pharisee card-carrying get out of jail free membership when he needed to.
The early Christians, the true followers, were against the teachings of the Pharisees (same as Judaism).
There is only one denomination that believes that Christians are required to keep the Sabbath day and that is Seventh-Day Adventistism. They have cult tendancies and these links are enclosed for you to read.
SDA's beleive that you must still hold to the 10 commandments, strictly, and that those who worship on Sunday have the spirit of antiChrist.
To be a member of these sects, you have to believe that Joseph Smith or Ellen White (respectively) are latter day prophets.
Anyways, all of these sects believe that they are the one true church and if you aren't with them, then you aren't among the saved.
My claim is that Pharisees adhere to the strictest sense of the law and believe in: the law of Moses; resurrection: the afterlife: angels and spirits.
Originally posted by TizaYou are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. First off, Pharisaism (those who later became the Talmudists) and Judaism are the same religions, just that Judaism is the modern-day name of it. And this is not the religion of the OT.
That does not matter when placed within the context as above. they were Jews, their faith was that of Judaism.
The Pharisees were not even a group until somewhere around 160 B.C.E. The religion of the OT was Yahwehism.
That is subject to interpretation and to calendrical choice. This is not the issue here.
When Yahushua the messiah was born, the religion of the Pharisees was still a pretty new religion, in fact. He was born on Oct. 3, 7 B.C.E. See "The Festivals and Sacred Days of Yahweh, " Section I entitled Different Jewish Schools.
Thank you, and I will take a look sometime, however my statements afore stand.
While this is about the Passover and different ways certain groups kept it, you'll learn a lot of history about the Pharisees and the Sadducees. You can download it free at yahweh.org
Then since of those I have mentioned: the Torah, resurrection, the angels and the afterlife are all believed by the Pharisees, where the last three are key to Christianity, the label of hypocrite is superfluous. If jesus was looking for perfection, then he should have known not to come, for neither did he find it, nor did he leave it. The fact remains that Christianity relies on belief in resurrection; angels and the afterlife. This is the crux of their religion, the heart and sole of same. Without pushing this, all Christians would be a Jewish sect believing their saviour came and went.
Yes, I'm already aware that the Pharisees believed in the resurrection, however, they certainly do hold many false doctrines.
He had a right sure, when considering the words attested to him. But was he absolutely correct? Did he mean to change the laws or enlighten them? This is a man who as you have confessed preached every sabbath, encouraged circumcision and at the same token yelled at all Jews for their antediluvian approach to God's laws. At the same token, it got to his head. He went up to the Mount of Olives seemingly expecting prophecy to split the mountain; he reinterpreted the one and only and indisputable creator's laws and declared many of them null and void; he quoted scripture incorrectly; he begged for his life, a life we are told he supposedly knew he was there to give. In other words, he has been depicted as having been cosunmed with himself, which I might add is vastly different to accountings thrown away by the church and declared heretic.
Yahushua had a right to chastise them-- meaning the scribes and the pharisees, because they were hypocrites and false teachers.
They may have taken the requirements of that day too far, with that I agree. But you cannot with any good conscience proclaim this and then turn around and say he taught them how to properly address the timing of the sabbath as well as the jubilees.
They taught the sabbath day incorrectly, teaching manmade laws surrounding the sabbath day when a fence was built around the Torah.
And what exactly is this doctrine?
They taught the false ineffable name doctrine, which Yahushua was against.
He was an imposter! A stealthy politician of the roman court who managed to relegate Jesus' choice for rock, Peter to the shadows, and alienate both James and Barnabas. This is a man who steadfastly repudiated every single law that Jesus followed. This is the man whose creedo is preached and practiced by every Christian church, and the man who most Christians love to quote over Jesus. This is a man who it is said by one of the first church fathers quoting John Mark did not write to the 7 churches, and what he did write to any was but a few lines. This man apparently was not smart enough to even notice that his personal physician claimed those he was with heard Jesus' voice, while he himself said no one but he heard. Why on earth would an apostle of Jesus walk with a personal physician, I ask you? This man is Paul Christos, mistakenly identified as Jesus Christ.
Saul (Paul) was an excellent teacher. He knew the truth and was an apostle too.
I am afraid it has changed. Either decide the days were based on lunar days or solar days, then refer back to what I say and explain to me how where a day, any day, regardless of being solar or lunar is exactly 24.00000 hours.
Well, I must be a lot more tired than I think. You'll have to break down what you're trying to say. The sabbath day cycle was set in motion in the creation week on the 7th day. This has not changed.
Please do not invoke the term YHWH when you advocate the NT. As I have said read it and explain it to me.
Now, I trust the scriptural studies on the sabbath and trust what Yahweh has stated. I cannot see how some people can say Yahweh would somehow allow the correct sabbath day to be lost seeing as how he commanded for all of mankind to keep it. People must believe in such a weak creator.
Why would he? He was but a man, learned only in what he knew.
Even Yahushua the messiah had no argument with the day the Jewish religious leaders were keeping as the sabbath, just their manmade fence built around it that created a burden for mankind.
Is it true that once the SDAs have preached to you about going to church on Sunday -- if you reject their Saturday Sabbath message, and if you continue going to church on Sundays, then they believe that you have accepted the mark of the beast or the spirit of anti-Christ???
Can you be baptized as a Seventh-Day Adventist while openly confessing that that Ellen Gould White was not a prophet of God?
Originally posted by Yxboom
.
You're a Seventh-Day Adventist??? Okay, let me ask you a couple of questions.
Is it true that once the SDAs have preached to you about going to church on Sunday -- if you reject their Saturday Sabbath message, and if you continue going to church on Sundays, then they believe that you have accepted the mark of the beast or the spirit of anti-Christ???
Can you be baptized as a Seventh-Day Adventist while openly confessing that that Ellen Gould White was not a prophet of God?
Posted by sntx
Snip...
Are there any other commandments you would like to be freed from, or is it only the fourth that you have a problem with?
Posted by sntx
Snip...
The penalty for sin (death) has been paid by Christ's sacrifice.
Posted by sntx
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This in no way frees us from being subject to the law.
Posted by sntx
Snip...
Willfully sinning makes a mockery of our Lords sacrifice for us. That is why Jesus instructed us to repent and sin no more. We can know what sin is by referring to God's commandments.