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The Sabbath

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posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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Are Christians who keep Sunday as their Sabbath misguided? How is it possible to change one of God's commandments? Who changed it, and why?

This has recently been a subject of interest to me so I have read many arguments on both sides of the issue. I am curious as to what the readers of this forum have to say about the 4th commandment and it's relevance today.

For the record I believe that the 10 commandments are still intact and will continue to be forever (read Psalm 119 for just the tip of the iceberg on this). I am amazed that when searching for the 4th commandment via google I often come up with a shortened version: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." As I understand it there are even certain Bible translations that omit the rest of the scripture as it is found in Exodus 20: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.


Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:


But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."


Steve




posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by sntx
Are Christians who keep Sunday as their Sabbath misguided? How is it possible to change one of God's commandments? Who changed it, and why?

This has recently been a subject of interest to me so I have read many arguments on both sides of the issue. I am curious as to what the readers of this forum have to say about the 4th commandment and it's relevance today.

For the record I believe that the 10 commandments are still intact and will continue to be forever (read Psalm 119 for just the tip of the iceberg on this). I am amazed that when searching for the 4th commandment via google I often come up with a shortened version: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." As I understand it there are even certain Bible translations that omit the rest of the scripture as it is found in Exodus 20: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.


Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:


But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."


Steve






Hi, Steve:

What would you like to specifically know about Yahweh's sabbath? I've been keeping it for years.

Did you know the word "sabbath" is primarily a verb, which means "to cease"?

Be back later,
Tiza



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Tiza

What would you like to specifically know about Yahweh's sabbath?



I would like to know why millions of people who claim that the Bible is their guide do not keep the sabbath on the seventh day.



Originally posted by sntx
Are Christians who keep Sunday as their Sabbath misguided? How is it possible to change one of God's commandments? Who changed it, and why?




Originally posted by Tiza

I've been keeping it for years.


I have only recently answered God's call and have been keeping the sabbath for only a couple of months. It has already had a major impact on my life and my mind. I am so thankful to have this truth revealed to me after many years of frustration and hopelessness.


Originally posted by Tiza

Did you know the word "sabbath" is primarily a verb, which means "to cease"?



Interesting, I did not know that. I feel like I am at the beginning of a great journey. There is still so much to learn. Thank you!


Steve

[edit on 1/21/0505 by sntx]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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A couple of the earliest known establishments of Sunday as a day of worship are the edict of Emperor Constantine---



"On the venerable day of the sun let the Magistrates and people residing in the cities rest, and let all workships be closed." [Edict of Constantine, March 7, 321 A.D.]


and Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea, in 364 AD:


CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.


The circumstances of Jesus's death had (and continue to have) the potential for cultivating antisemitism, and when the power center of the apostolic Church became concentrated in Rome away from its Judaic roots, more extreme methods of separation from Judaism became tolerated, even encouraged.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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There were no "days" when God made earth (not that I believe that but that's another thread). The days of the week came along much later. The "spirit of the sabath" is still intact. Work for 6 days and rest on the 7th. I don't think anywhere in the bible it states that you must rest on Saturday, or Sunday, or any particular day.

Correct me if I'm wrong.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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yes the old testament clearly states the sabbath is saturday.

and the new testament does not do anything to change it.

it therefore is church tradition that sabbath shall become the day of our lord.

I dont think that god will send someone to hell for mistakingly worshiping on the wrong day



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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The old testament sais this, not god.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by BeefotronX
A couple of the earliest known establishments of Sunday as a day of worship are the edict of Emperor Constantine---



"On the venerable day of the sun let the Magistrates and people residing in the cities rest, and let all workships be closed." [Edict of Constantine, March 7, 321 A.D.]


and Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea, in 364 AD:


CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.


The circumstances of Jesus's death had (and continue to have) the potential for cultivating antisemitism, and when the power center of the apostolic Church became concentrated in Rome away from its Judaic roots, more extreme methods of separation from Judaism became tolerated, even encouraged.




This is very interesting. It is a testament as to how quickly the church was infiltrated and used maliciously in the name of Christ. I can see why the commandments were targeted for attack. It seams that the attack has been overwhelmingly successful.



Originally posted b yAshlar

yes the old testament clearly states the sabbath is saturday.

and the new testament does not do anything to change it.

it therefore is church tradition that sabbath shall become the day of our lord.

I dont think that god will send someone to hell for mistakingly worshiping on the wrong day


I don't think so either, but how can one mistakingly disobey a comandment that they should know and love? They would have to be tricked into doing so by deception. We have been warned over and over again about being decieved. The fourth commandment is to be kept as a sign or mark between God and his people. Those that disobey the commandment are accepting another mark altogether.
I beleive a time is coming in which all people will be required by some government to observe sunday in some way. Non compliance with this requirement will effect ones ability to be employed.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law [Old testement] (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sunday Sabbath, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5).” We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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Jehosephat,
That may be so, but according to scriptural legalists and literalists, the Sabbath is also apart of the New Testament. Jesus the Christ said that he did not come to abolish the law (Torah and the Ten Commandments), but to fulfil them. The early Christians observed the original Sabbath till it was changed by the Church, as pointed out in BeefotronX's post. If one wishes to claim that the we are free from the bondage of the Law, then pray tell why in Revelations, Jesus the Christ mentions only those that have abided and followed the Commandments of God (ie: the Ten Commandments) will only enter into Heaven? Also, God states in the Old Testament, that:


"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 4:2. "Every word of God is pure. ... Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5, 6.



Man changed the Law, not God nor Jesus and Jesus' death did not change or decree that one is literally free from observing the Laws of God. If so, he would not have reiterated what he did in the Book of Revelations, now would he? Jesus said:


In John 15:10 Jesus said "I have kept my father's commandments" and we can also find from scripture that Jesus attended church on the Sabbath day. "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read." Luke 4:16


The Apostles did:


"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures." Acts 17:2. "Paul and his company ... went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down." Acts 13:13, 14. "And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither." Acts 16:13. "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." Acts 18:4.

Which Day?

Interesting, huh?




seekerof



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 08:38 PM
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The sabbath is supposedly a day of rest as evidenced by: Gen.2:2.

It is on this day God ended his work, a day which he created, also as evidenced as 2:2.in that his work was created on each of 6 days, which means he worked to create each day, the 7th being no exception, lazy day or not. And nowhere in Genesis does it determine that Saturday is the 7th day.

Constantine out of spite for the Jews declared Sunday to be the sabbath. he had no regard for religion, he cared only about politics, and the politics of the day was his hatred for the Jews, and his desire to outdo the Pesach.

Yet it is evident that with Jewish chronology, the 7th day was a rolling day given their interpretation of the calendar.

Hence: The sabbath could be Thursday for all we know.





[edit on 1/21/05 by SomewhereinBetween]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 08:52 PM
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Steve writes: Interesting, I did not know that. I feel like I am at the beginning of a great journey. There is still so much to learn. Thank you!


Hi, Steve:

I'm not able to go into anything deep right now about sabbath, but when you say you're at the beginning of a great journey, the truth is, you are! And it's a never-ending journey too!

The reason that I don't have much time is my daughter has been ill today and in ER, but she's at her apartment now trying to rest.

One thing I'll say, during the creation week in Genesis, which was 24-hour days and you can prove so, although I won't go into it now, this is what it says about sabbath:

Gen. 2:2-3, And finished eloahim on the sabyay (seventh) day his work which he had made. And he sabbathed (ceased) on the sabyay (seventh) day from all his work which he had made. And eloahim BLESSED the sabyay (seventh) day and MADE IT SACRED, because on it he sabbathed from all his work which eloahim created to make.

Now, the meaning of sabbath (ceasing) comes from the Hebrew idea of completion, to be full, which is the 7th day being the completion of a full week.

Note that what Yahweh eloahim did was bless the sabbath and make it sacred. At this time, Yahweh set apart this specific day for worship for adam-kind (meaning mankind) by the act of blessing it and making it sacred which was a priestly act in itself.

Like Yahushua (Jesus) the messiah says in Mark 2:27, "The sabbath was made on account of anthropon (mankind=adam-kind), not anthropos (a man) on account of the sabbath."

I.e., Adam, the first man, was made before sabbath. Then the sabbath was blessed and made sacred for the sake of all adam-kind, every human being. This may take a while to jump out at you, but later you'll understand it in more detail when you understand just what the commandment to keep the sabbath is, namely, it's a commandment (one of the top 4 in our love to Yahweh), it's a sign, it's a statute and a law and an appointed time (moadi in Hebrew).

It's a sign because: Exod. 31:12f, "And Yahweh spoke to Moses saying, And you shall speak to the sons of Israel, saying, Surely MY SABBATHS (plural-- including feast days) you shall keep, because IT IS A SIGN (auth) between me and you for your generations, TO KNOW THAT I AM YAHWEH YOUR SANCTIFIER."
Ezek. 20:12, "And I gave them my sabbaths to be an auth (sign) between me and them for knowing that I, Yahweh, make them sacred."

Well, I will periodically be back. I sure hope this little bit helps.

One more thing, and you may already have these references.

Socrates Scholasticus (c.440 C.E.)
"For although almost all the assemblies throughout the WORLD celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and Rome, on account of some ancient TRADITION, have CEASED to do this." (5:22)

Notice that it says "the world celebrate..." Next note that Alexandria & Rome have CEASED, which means they previously kept the sabbath.

Sozomen (c443-450 C.E.)

"The people of Constantinople and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom was never observed at Rome or at Alexandria." (7:19).

See, just because Rome started suppression of the sabbath around 325 C.E. (which many Christians were murdered, tortured, etc., some escaped), doesn't mean that those Christians stopped keeping sabbath in that year. It took a long, long time to bring in this false of keeping Sunday to take root. But one thing interesting to think about, as is the case with all of Yahweh's truth, even the scrupulous observance by the Roman Church to keep the first day of the week also helped preserve the correct day of the sabbath. Well, that's one thing that helps preserve the correct timing, but there's several other things.

Hope that I didn't get too long here.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Here is a site with a lot about the historic Sabbath, and with a lot of other links to more Sabbath discussion.

I found this when reading about the 'discovery of the ark of the covenant' by Ron Wyatt......in some of his material, this fellow goes to great lengths to stress the importance of the fourth commandment.....he seems to be making the argument that it is the most important commandment, and that this was somehow revealed to him when he discovered the location of the ark of the covenant.

( I could not again find the same exact page, but the one above may eventually lead to that one, given enough cross-linking - there is a lot out there about Ron Wyatt--he also searched for Noah's Ark)

I too find it difficult to believe that worshipping on the 'wrong' day would be a deal-breaker, so to speak.....though I have known a few Seventh-Day-Adventists who seemed to think that since they worshipped on the 'right' day, they were sure to 'go to heaven' no matter how evil they really were!!



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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You could also think of it this way ... which day is the first day ?

If the first day is Sunday, then the sabbath (seventh day) has to be Saturday.
If, however, the first day is Monday then the sabbat is Sunday.



posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 10:34 PM
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Further insight:

From the Council of Nicea 325, excerpted from the letter of the synod to the Egyptians:

We also send you the good news of the settlement concerning the holy pasach, namely that in answer to your prayers this question also has been resolved. All the brethren in the East who have hitherto followed the Jewish practice will henceforth observe the custom of the Romans and of yourselves and of all of us who from ancient times have kept Easter together with you.


According to Eusebius, Constantine later issued an edict on the observance of Easter out of his disdain for the Jews, an excerpt:

When the question relative to the sacred festival of Easter arose, it was universally thought that it would be convenient that all should keep the feast on one day; for what could be more beautiful and more desirable, than to see this festival, through which we receive the hope of immortality, celebrated by all with one accord, and in the same manner? It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom[the calculation] of the Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,(1) we may transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating Easter, which we have observed from the time of the saviour's Passion to the present day[according to the day of the week…


While his reasoning was based on a loathing for a people, the Jewish calendar was nonetheless wrong then, as it was wrong 5,765 years ago, and as it is still wrong to this day, because it seems it was until somewhere around the 3rd or 4th century BCE, they actually acknowledged a 365 day year, where they account for the year based on a lunar calendar adjusted every 3 years or so for an extra month because they were shy 11 days a year. Consequently, neither the Sabbath nor any named day is correctly accounted for.

As much as Constantine and his synod wanted to play one-upmanship with the Jews, the pagan ritual of Easter though always celebrated Friday to Sunday, is also farcical given Christians may well be working on the actual anniversary of those days, while giving praise to Jesus on the days created the sun, moon; fish and beasts.



posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 10:41 PM
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I don't think it really matters what day, as long as you worship God and rest, etc. As a Christian, we worship on Sunday, and we don't buy, trade or sell on that day. The way things are now, though, it is difficult to rest any day!



posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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In the New Testament, we are not under any scriptural obligation to observe the Sabbath day. The Sabbath in the Old Testament was an antitype of the eternal salvation that we now find in Jesus; that's why so many people say that Jesus is our Sabbath rest.


The New Testament says that if we do the following two things, then we have fulfilled the law:
1. Love the Lord with all our heart, soul and mind.
2. Love our fellow man as we love ourselves.

If you read the requirements for Sabbath keeping in the Old Testament, it prohibits "lighting fires." Today, some devout Jews will not use electricity because it is a spark, which is a form of fire. There were many other prohibitions in the Old Testament that were nailed to the cross at Calvary.

Resting on the Sabbath is fine, but you don't have to rest on the Sabbath day to enter the kingdom of heaven because eternal life is a free gift from God and you can't earn it by obeying Sabbath laws.
.



posted on Jan, 22 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by Yxboom
In the New Testament, we are not under any scriptural obligation to observe the Sabbath day. The Sabbath in the Old Testament was an antitype of the eternal salvation that we now find in Jesus; that's why so many people say that Jesus is our Sabbath rest.
.
Yes, I understand your point of view, the son holds ultimate right of law of that of his father.

Even better, one proclaims himself to be the son and that he is delivering the message from his father that your right of passage is through him.

That is equivalent to your child's school delivering your child into the hands of a stranger because he told them you sent him.



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church.


The Sabbath was established at creation for all mankind. (Genesis 2:2-3, Mark 2:27-29)


The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed.


Here we can agree.


But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law [Old testement] (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14).


We are free from the penalty of the law which is death. This in no way means that we are not subject to the law itself. To claim that we are not subject to God's law would make a mockery of our Lords sacrifice. By your logic we are free to murder, lie, and worship idols. There is no barrier between the old and new testament (another popular false teaching). "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17




Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving.


The Lord's day referenced in Revelation has nothing to do with the Sabbath. It is a day of wrath that is refered to quite a few times in the old and new testaments. (Isaiah 2:12, 13:6, Jeremiah 46:10, Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3, Joel 1:15, 2:1, Amos 5:18, Obadiah 1:15, Zephaniah 1:14, Zechariah 14:1, Malachi 4:5, Acts 2:20, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10)


The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sunday Sabbath, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5).”


Don't forget verse 6 "He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks."




We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.



I agree with you completely on this.




"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD , "so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD ." Isaiah 66:22,23

Is the Sabbath on hold temporarily?

Steve



posted on Jan, 23 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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Is the following Old Testament Sabbath scripture still in effect today:



Exodus 35:3

Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.

Or how about the following O.T. Sabbath scripture:



Exodus 31:14
You shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


The Apostle Paul said that the believing gentiles do not have to be circumcised and do not have to follow the Jewish commandments to be saved.

There is only one denomination that believes that Christians are required to keep the Sabbath day and that is Seventh-Day Adventistism. They have cult tendancies and these links are enclosed for you to read. Their founder is Ellen Gould White and she lived from 1827 to 1915.

Here are the founders of the following sects:
  • SDA = Seventh Day Adventists.
    Ellen Gould White (1827-1915).

  • JW = Jehovah Witnesses.
    Charles Taze Russell (1852-1916).

  • LDS = Latter Day Saints (Mormons).
    Joseph Smith (1805-1844).

  • Christian Scientist.
    Mary Baker Eddy (1821-1910).
1. They all have cult-type founders without which, the sects would crumble. Conversely, the Body of Christ will never crumble because the founder in the Lord Jesus Christ.


2. They all began in the 1800s.

The SDAs, JWs and LDSs all had early connections with each other, but their founders eventually went their own ways to start their own sects. The founder of the JWs was Charles Taze Russell and he was strongly influenced by the SDA movement and he derived much of his beliefs from them.

Joseph Smith (LDS) and Ellen White (SDA) each alledgedly had "new revelations" from God and each wrote "inspired books" and each started a new sect of their own. To be a member of these sects, you have to believe that Joseph Smith or Ellen White (respectively) are latter day prophets.

SDAs, JWs and LDSs are all very much works based faiths. They have all added a host of "traditions" to Christianity, which puts them outside of the mainstream.
  • SDA's beleive that you must still hold to the 10 commandments, strictly, and that those who worship on Sunday have the spirit of antiChrist.

  • Mormons believe that God had spirit children by a goddess mother and we are them. They also believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. We have the capacity to become Gods.
Anyways, all of these sects believe that they are the one true church and if you aren't with them, then you aren't among the saved.

.



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