Political Correctness is Politically inCorrect!

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I haven't read through all of it yet, and forgive me if I'm repeating something already said. . .

but isn't PC a push towards conformity and a move away from individuality?

...or as they call it, kindness and respect.

So the PC crowd wants to dictate how an individual thinks.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Yes, I would say so. They want to control the language, and by extension, thought. They are the new puritanical.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

All I can say is this a very interesting and intensive study of the subject, although, you appear to have covered multiple subjects or topics, so......I'm not really sure how to characterize your essay. I guess you're suggesting that the SJW/PC activist crowd incorporates all of these topics, i.e., globalism, etc.?

Having spent as much time as you have on this subject, I really have to ask two questions and I'd really hope to get well reasoned answers.

First............why do you care? I mean, its obvious this is a topic of great importance to you and of such importance you've obviously spent many hours on this subject, but WHY? Are you afraid of this "philosophy" or "movement"? Do you feel somehow threatened by these people? Do you see them as some existential threat to you and yours and your way of life? I don't quite understand your "care" about this. For one thing, there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it except to let it play out over time and watch the energy diminish. To the extent that anyone fights it, they just add fuel to the fire.

Second............surely you're aware that one of the consequences, and I just read about this on the New York Times, is that as the open borders combined with the PC/SJW movement progresses, the result is the end of the US "melting" pot and the acceleration into self-segregated communities defined by culture and/or race. The overall effect of this movement has been to balkanize the population and the nation and to foster an atmosphere of constrained politness and limited interaction. Even at the Universities, the PC crowd is telling incoming freshmen to basically get along by thinking before speaking and then to speak only rarely and politely when addressed and then to provide brief inoffensive answers. Ill summarize my point with this question, i.e., considering the small numbers of the SJW/PC crowd and the limited effects they're having, don't you think that any overall damage they could do is relatively limited?

Just had to ask.
Thanks.

a reply to: theantediluvian

So I should take all that as I got it all right?

Let me ask you a very simple and direct question.

Is this a real problem in your life?

Is the "Alt-Right" you set about making a propaganda overload across the site here this weekend a real problem in yours?

That's a stupid question, huh?

Even if the "Alt-Right" is everything you say it is, aside from simply being racists reacting to your brand of racist smear campaign, can you actually articulate how they are the spiritual successor to the original Nazi Party as I have laid out about the PC Thought Police?

Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
www.ushmm.org...

Remember, not everyone that does react to your progressive agenda's race card overload is a racist. Just like not everyone that can look at what your movement has been up to and pick it apart like I have is like you.

originally posted by: JDeLattre89

Hell yeah! I was trying to find something like that for PCU recently, as the trailer for the movie is mostly just the simple college appeal comedy movie trailer kind of spot.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I haven't read through all of it yet, and forgive me if I'm repeating something already said. . .

but isn't PC a push towards conformity and a move away from individuality?

That's precisely what it is. Instead of being an individual where via your interactions with the world and all within all those things above are how you learn to define yourself, they insist on defining who you are for you by lumping you into groups and then telling you how you should think and feel. They insist upon the things you have no control over as being the most important things for you to obsess about, such as race.

As such it's the most hardcore anti-individuality ideology set I've seen outside of Nazi Germany, and all those hardcore Communist archetype nations (mostly) of times past. For this reason libertarianism is the ultimate inherent nemesis to their agenda and as expected the PC Thought Police recently set about lumping it into the "Alt-Right" as we saw here in ATS just last week.

a reply to: theantediluvian

You said:

Are you frequently being called a racist in your day to day life?

But before that, several lines up you said:

Change "racists" to "SJWs" and you could be describing yourself.

So yes, he is being called a racist. By YOU.

Let's consider ATS political forums. How many posters on ATS frequently label other posters as "racists" and "sexists" compared to frequency with which the term "SJW" is bandied about?

So far I think you're the only one to call him racist in this thread.

I don't understand why you have to come into this thread and ad hominem attack the OP for simply elaborating his thoughts on the ideology of PC. You have your threads about your ideology and he has his. And it is an ideology.

You obviously don't disagree that the extremist side of the PC movement is dangerous and hypocritical.

What you do disagree on is how prevalent in America the extremist side of PC really is. But instead of attacking his argument you went after his intentions.

Did you even read the entire OP?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

This most recent full court press by the Media, Hillary Clinton and the sorts who support her to label the "Alt-Right" as malicious white supremacists and then set about lumping into it pretty much any and all opposition to PC, progressivism and Hillary's POTUS campaign, in particular Donald Trump and his supporters. The absurdity of the whole affair was best underscored by the fact that virtually everybody this smear was rapidly applied to over Social & Corporate Media had hardly ever even heard of "Alt-Right"!

So in a thread where you are ranting about "Political Correctness"...you are crying about Hillary Clinton not being Politically Correct??? You are sad that people are calling out the Alt-Right for the racists idiots that they are...and you don't think that it is fair that people are speaking the truth about them...that is even beyond political correctness.

You do the same thing in every little rant sub-topic you have.

You aren't against Political Correctness...you want even more political correctness...to the point where people can't speak the truth if it hurts your feelings.

What it comes down to is that you aren't against political correctness...you are angry that you are on the wrong side of history on all the social issues you just posted about. I'm sorry that the majority of society sees your views as outdated and bigoted...change or deal with it.

a reply to: kruphix

You are sad that people are calling out the Alt-Right for the racists idiots that they are...and you don't think that it is fair that people are speaking the truth about them...that is even beyond political correctness.

Disagreeing with somebody and going out of your way to censor somebody are two entirely different things.

You aren't against Political Correctness...you want even more political correctness...to the point where people can't speak the truth if it hurts your feelings.

How?

I'm sorry that the majority of society sees your views as outdated and bigoted...change or deal with it.

Lies.

Here's our monthly "PC is bad" star farming thread.

The choir must feel genuinely enlightened.

a reply to: DeadFoot

Here's our monthly "PC is bad" star farming thread.

Star farming? That sounds so... alien.

The OP took up 5 full posts to layout his argument. That's not your usual click/star/flag bait.

All you snowflakes have weak arguments today. I'm actually somewhat disappointed.

a reply to: ColdWisdom

Lol, did you seriously just call me a snowflake?

I'm floored by your originality.

a reply to: TonyS

Good response. Many directions I could go in responsing.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

All I can say is this a very interesting and intensive study of the subject, although, you appear to have covered multiple subjects or topics, so......I'm not really sure how to characterize your essay. I guess you're suggesting that the SJW/PC activist crowd incorporates all of these topics, i.e., globalism, etc.?

The general liberal / progressive platform, when you cut out things like health care, climate change, abortion, what it left is pretty much ll of that stuff I did get into: PC Identity Politics, open borders / Globalism, collectivism. Some are more bent of the specifics one one issue set or another (say feminists are pretty set on hating men), but at the end of the day you'll see the same kind of people jump in and defend the other issue sets more or less the same (you can see it everyday here in ATS nowadays). There's endless clips on youtube where you can see these types mash 'all of the above' together:

First............why do you care?

All this trend is causing is division, and for that reason alone it must be stopped... I've always been against Moral Emotional Wedge Issues (abortion, dead baby fetuses, etc) dominating national political discourse, to end how they have been used forever to divert everybody from seeing the bigger picture (i.e. "TPTB") of the real agenda's always going on in DC & Wall Street that screws all of us together. As libertarian & agnostic minded, ideas of collectivism / racism are inherently annoying in general and destructive at large). Now they've come to a head where that's all going n now, everybody whipped into emotional us vs. them rage, and its all distracting everybody from the bigger issues that are screwing us all over together.

Are you afraid of this "philosophy" or "movement"? Do you feel somehow threatened by these people? Do you see them as some existential threat to you and yours and your way of life? I don't quite understand your "care" about this. For one thing, there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it except to let it play out over time and watch the energy diminish. To the extent that anyone fights it, they just add fuel to the fire.

Should people have been "afraid" & "threatened" as the Nazi Party was on the rise?

Second............surely you're aware that one of the consequences, and I just read about this on the New York Times, is that as the open borders combined with the PC/SJW movement progresses, the result is the end of the US "melting" pot and the acceleration into self-segregated communities defined by culture and/or race. The overall effect of this movement has been to balkanize the population and the nation and to foster an atmosphere of constrained politness and limited interaction.

That's another great point I haven't much articulated about. Surprising that the NYT would 'warn' of such a thing. I'd love to see that article.

Balkanization is the perfect term though for what they're doing. Destroying America with overarching DIVERSITY while throwing actual UNITY to the wolves.

I see such an irony in that term, and how this is all coming about currently with Hillary Clinton's POTUS coronation underway. The Balkan's Conflict was Bill Clinton's little pet project, meaning outside of the CIA there's few people more expert on Balkans'esque proxy wars than them.

Even at the Universities, the PC crowd is telling incoming freshmen to basically get along by thinking before speaking and then to speak only rarely and politely when addressed and then to provide brief inoffensive answers. Ill summarize my point with this question, i.e., considering the small numbers of the SJW/PC crowd and the limited effects they're having, don't you think that any overall damage they could do is relatively limited?

Is it limited? Even just in the colleges? That's not what I saw this summer when I looked at it for the first time:
Social Justice Assault Warriors TV Marathon!
Going by that it looks quite effective so far to me. Note this is the first generation where the kids becoming adults have been socially engineered to inherently fall into these ranks. It's really like Einstein stuff the people that got these moves in play going back decades. Apparently they were reading Starship Troopers to so perfectly craft this Special Snowflake Generation. I wonder if they were visionary enough to foresee how dramatically their work would erupt across society the way it has with the advent of Social media:


Yet it goes beyond just the colleges, and the social media, the social engineering (mass indoctrination towards specific ends) that is. It's in the grade schools, its int he colleges, its embedded in the shows / commercials / politics crafted for children & youngsters across all of TV, it's in the Media,and the politicians it's in the White House. When right after Obama took the reigns and the politicians and the media started exclaiming that if you're against Obama's policies that meant "you're a racist", this PC stuff was already deeply ingrained in society by that point.

a reply to: DeadFoot

Let's change the subject then.

What do you like about the PC movement?

What are its best attributes?

What has it actually contributed to progress?

a reply to: kruphix



Please do elaborate this "PC" I'm pushing here.

And what "truth" is it I'm trying to prevent our entire society from ever being able to see?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: DBCowboy

Yes, I would say so. They want to control the language, and by extension, thought. They are the new puritanical.

Right! When I started to see what they were doing to the language it totally blew my hair back.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
In a discussion of authoritarianism / totalitarianism, there's hardly a better case study than Nazi Germany.

The Nazi Party began building a mass movement. From 27,000 members in 1925, the Party grew to 108,000 in 1929. The SA was the paramilitary unit of the Party, a propaganda arm that became known for its strong arm tactics of street brawling and terror. The SS was established as an elite group with special duties within the SA, but it remained inconsequential until Heinrich Himmler became its leader in 1929. By the late twenties, the Nazi Party started other auxiliary groups. The Hitler Youth, the Student League and the Pupils' League were open to young Germans. The National Socialist Women's League allowed women to get involved. Different professional groups--teachers, lawyers and doctors--had their own auxiliary units.
... Party propaganda proved effective at winning over university students, veterans' organizations, and professional groups, although the Party became increasingly identified with young men of the lower middle classes. fcit.usf.edu...

Nazi anti-Jewish policy functioned on two primary levels: legal measures to expel the Jews from society and strip them of their rights and property while simultaneously engaging in campaigns of incitement, abuse, terror and violence of varying proportions. There was one goal: to make the Jews leave Germany.
...
Ceremonial public book burnings took place throughout Germany. Many books were torched solely because their authors were Jews. The exclusion of Jews from German cultural life was highly visible, ousting their considerable contribution to the German press, literature, theater, and music.
...
Jews were banned from universities; Jewish actors were dismissed from theaters; Jewish authors’ works were rejected by publishers; and Jewish journalists were hard-pressed to find newspapers that would publish their writings. Famous artists and scientists played an important role in this campaign of dispossession and party labeling of literature, art, and science. Some scientists and physicians were involved in the theoretical underpinnings of the racial doctrine. www.yadvashem.org...#!prettyPhoto

Those about quotes about the rise of the Nazi's, today one could change the word Jew to SWM's in all of that, and it'd read coherently in line with what is already happening today with this social justice front. It's all propaganda, and that propaganda is all about identity politics (like the Nazi's). Where the Nazi's had the Jews to blame all of their problems on, SJW's have the straight white male "Patriarchy" conspiracy to blame all of their percieved oppression on. Where the Nazi's burned Jewish books, SJW's on college campuses are redefining the English language in ways that leaves no room for the future of the Comedian profession.

10 Most Absurd Things Banned On Politically Correct College Campuses
While some crusaders of political correctness may seek to ban offensive words from our vernacular, others have begun to attack correct grammar as offensive. UCLA professor Val Rust thought he was just doing his job by correcting the spelling and grammatical errors he found in his students’ papers in a graduate-level class, but when students got their papers back, some of them alleged that the spelling and grammar corrections were a form of microaggression against the students, some of whom were minorities.

Trigger warnings are warnings that the ensuing content contains strong writing or images which could unsettle those with mental health difficulties. Angus Johnston, a history professor at the City University of New York, said that trigger warnings can be a part of "sound pedagogy," noting that students encountering potentially triggering material are "coming to it as whole people with a wide range of experiences, and that the journey we're going on together may at times be painful. It's not coddling them to acknowledge that. In fact, it's just the opposite." Students at UC Santa Barbara passed a resolution in support of mandatory trigger warnings for classes that could contain potentially upsetting material. Professors would be required to alert students of such material and allow them to skip classes that could make them feel uncomfortable. en.wikipedia.org...

On April 8, 1933, the Main Office for Press and Propaganda of the German Student Union proclaimed a nationwide "Action against the Un-German Spirit", which was to climax in a literary purge or "cleansing" ("Säuberung") by fire. Local chapters were to supply the press with releases and commissioned articles, sponsor well-known Nazi figures to speak at public gatherings, and negotiate for radio broadcast time. On the 8th of April, the Student Union also drafted the Twelve Theses which deliberately evoked Martin Luther and the historic burning of "Un-German" books at the Wartburg festival on the 300th anniversary of the posting of Luther's Ninety-Five Theses. The theses called for a "pure" national language and culture. Placards publicized the theses, which attacked "Jewish intellectualism", asserted the need to "purify" German language and literature, and demanded that universities be centres of German nationalism. The students described the "action" as a response to a worldwide Jewish "smear campaign" against Germany and an affirmation of traditional German values. en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 6-9-2016 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: DeadFoot
Here's our monthly "PC is bad" star farming thread.

The choir must feel genuinely enlightened.

In case you didn't notice, I don't need stars.

Likewise, I've never cared about taking the popular positions. It's pretty much always played out as just the opposite:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

In case you didn't notice, I don't need stars.

It's ok.

I still give them to you when I deem it appropriate.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Very tough thread to read. It's content relies very much on vast assumptions and offers little to no verifiable proof/examples in order to validate the assertions. Youtube videos and links to obscure websites do not offer the context needed to justify your claims.

Let's look at some of the things you said:

The wide world of Political Correctness has entered its 'infancy of maturity' in dialog and reach now, just in the past few years, and it is breathtaking on many levels.

What makes you say this? Do you have some sort of analysis or statistic that led you to this conclusion?

While PC is the ideology, there's no easier term than "SJW" to denote the extremists of this kind of thinking.

PC is not an ideology. PC is a choice by an individual to be mindful of their words and actions, as to not berate or marginalize other people. What you have done in this thread is to take the idea or "philosophy" behind PC and attached all of the "groups" of people that believe in certain causes, such as equal rights for homosexuals or anti-racism movements.

In other words, what you have done here is created a cluster# of propaganda rhetoric and buzzwords and tried to attach it to one specific term, political correctness, because that term is not popular among those that lean toward the Right.

Throw in some Mexicans, race issues, Muslims, homosexuality, anti-science, and a whole lot of "SJW"'s and "snowflakes" thrown around, and you have a nice long thread that is nothing more than a word salad that throws everything at the wall, hoping they all stick to the one term you wish to tie them all to.

Political correctness.

a reply to: introvert

Well I give you credit for at least retorting with some substance (unlike some other members).

What you have done in this thread is to take the idea or "philosophy" behind PC and attached all of the "groups" of people that believe in certain causes, such as equal rights for homosexuals or anti-racism movements.

I believe in equal rights for every American. That does not make me PC.

Again, I believe the critical difference here is the attempts to censor any discussion by someone who opposes the PC ideology.

Censorship = PC Culture

I think that's the idea he's getting at here. Maybe I'm wrong.

edit: And I also gave you a star for that post, Introvert!

I award stars to people for arguing their ideas coherently, even if they are drastically different from my own.