Obama cancels meeting with Philippines' Duterte after insult

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: stinkelbaum
a reply to: UKTruth

If the law of the land is the death penalty for drug dealing then killing them after a trial is acceptable.

they're killing political opponents under the guise that their breaking the law.

so this place supports obvious genocide when obama opposes it, but one of clinton's old friends dies its an obvious murder?

Firstly, I did not speak of genocide. I said that after a trial if the penalty is death and you are found guilty then the execution is acceptable. Secondly, can you provide proof that they are committing genocide and faking crimes in orde to kill people?

He/she can provide conjecture. You can forget about facts. Hopping on the bandwagon of half-truth, is the trend these days. More addicting than Pokemon Go.

Me too, laughed as well. Especially since Ann Dunham was allegedly a cia asset and paid whore. Lol. Reality bites and the truth may hurt, but it can never be a lie.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Puppylove

Thank you. I appreciate your candor.

We have never been anything but second rate citizens in our own land since Spain decided that what is ours including our lives is actually theirs. That went on for 333 years. Then the Japanese came, beheaded our men and made whores of our women.

And when all the foreign invaders left our shores, those who swore to protect us and uphold our rights and dignity continued the tradition of oppression of their own people and that went on up until the previous administration who not only stood by and watched, but protected the criminals in exchange for payola. Crimes were being committed against our family, in the streets, in our very own homes and we never heard one word of sympathy from these moral crusaders.

And now that Duterte is doing what a president should, which is to uphold the law and protect the innocent, these people have the temerity to spout lies against him?

They speak of the rights of criminals to life, and that should certainly be a concern, but if they think and act like they are above the law and offer violence to the police/citizenry and gets killed in the process, how is that the government's fault?

And for crying out loud, what about our rights?

originally posted by: CaDreamer

originally posted by: LifeMode

originally posted by: CaDreamer
a reply to: thinline

trump took the high ground??? lol calling mexicans rapists and thieves, guess that it the high ground for a low life... wow such cognitive dissonance. disillusions....................

"The phenomenon of the female homicides in Ciudad Juárez, called in Spanish feminicidio ("feminicide") involves the violent deaths of hundreds of women and girls since 1993 in the northern Mexican region of Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, a border city across the Rio Grande from the U.S. city of El Paso, Texas. As of February 27, 2005, the number of murdered women in Ciudad Juarez since 1993 is estimated to be more than 370.[1]

After surveying 155 killings out of 340 documented between 1993 and 2003, a government committee found that roughly half were prompted by motives like robbery and gang wars, while a little more than a third involved sexual assault."

I have been to this border town. Scary place and they they do in fact cross the border and commit these crimes in the US. Not sure where you live but probably nowhere near where Mexicans are raping and murdering and smuggling women and raping them. Obama and Hillary ignore it.

not sure what that has to do with trump making racist remarks about mexicans....oh sorry, taking the high road....somebody is
high alright

Mexicans IS NOT a RACE!!!!
If you want to Race Bait at least try and use the term appropriately?

a reply to: bijouramov

Yeah and I appreciate hearing from you all, as it seems I misunderstood the situation some too while trying to piece through the media's bs version of things. He's actually trying to maintain the law to the best of his ability, and not just bypassing it like I thought he was.

a reply to: 727Sky

Duterte calls a lot of folks "son of a whore" lol that guy is like the Trump of the Philippines. Expect to continue seeing him in the news because of it

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: stinkelbaum
a reply to: UKTruth

If the law of the land is the death penalty for drug dealing then killing them after a trial is acceptable.

they're killing political opponents under the guise that their breaking the law.

so this place supports obvious genocide when obama opposes it, but one of clinton's old friends dies its an obvious murder?

Firstly, I did not speak of genocide. I said that after a trial if the penalty is death and you are found guilty then the execution is acceptable. Secondly, can you provide proof that they are committing genocide and faking crimes in orde to kill people?

Have you actually looked into this? I'm guessing not as you keep using that word Duterte seems to have a problem with - trial. That's the whole issue.

a reply to: uncommitted

I'm curious, where are you getting your info from? You sure it's an unbiased source completely free from propaganda? Cause the citizens that actually live there seem to being seeing something completely different from what the media is telling us.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: uncommitted

I'm curious, where are you getting your info from? You sure it's an unbiased source completely free from propaganda? Cause the citizens that actually live there seem to being seeing something completely different from what the media is telling us.

He has directed police and public to kill suspected drug dealers. You of course may not believe any link I give, but why do you think a citizen of the country would be unbiased? If I lived in America and told you how great Clinton is, would you call that unbiased? And what about if I said the same about Trump?

Anyhow, it's not disputed that executions are taking case without due cause - ie, without a trial. See if these help...

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.bbc.co.uk...

State sanctioned murders. If you believe people who deal in drugs should die, I would consider that harsh, but that's your opinion. If you believe people who deal in drugs should die, but based on someone's opinion that they deal, and without due process then I can't support you.

a reply to: uncommitted

I need better than the BBC as they are definitely run by special interests.

See this a complicated situation. The mainstream media are run by special interests, it's party of their job to maintain the status quo of their backers. Who have a vested interest in keeping corruption in politics and maintaining the drug war. It's their bread and butter. People fighting to remove that corruption, and end their shenanigans are their direct enemy. The last thing they want is to encourage anything that might encourage others to rise up and do the same.

I need sources that are truly neutral. I know a catch 22. Something you can't provide.

I'm not convinced your getting unbiased information without an agenda using those sources.

You probably think I'm being unreasonable.

I've seen too much media manipulation, quoting things out of context, etc to just buy whatever they're selling.

a reply to: Puppylove

That's an interesting response from someone on ATS that appears to take the word of an anonymous poster on this thread who's opinion presumably more closely matches what you want to hear.

Sorry, it's not disputed that people are being killed without due course. You prefer not to believe that? Who am I to argue?

a reply to: uncommitted

That's one person, I've seen similar things from others, including one showing something has been said out of context and distorted by the media. The person on this thread was just another person, that caused me to shift my original assumptions. It took more than ONE poster.

Either way, I originally assumed the law was being skirted. See my 1st post on this thread. Which is more the situation I assumed.

It's a difficult position we all are in. There is a subversive corrupting force taking over our court of laws, protecting their own causes and agendas.

With a media we know is biased, how do we trust them?

Clearly there's more than he's some crazy murderer butchering people that just annoy him. The people support him, even the media is forced to admit he has the support of the populace that elected him in.

There's two sides to this story.

Why are you happy with only what the mainstream media is selling?

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: stinkelbaum
a reply to: UKTruth

If the law of the land is the death penalty for drug dealing then killing them after a trial is acceptable.

they're killing political opponents under the guise that their breaking the law.

so this place supports obvious genocide when obama opposes it, but one of clinton's old friends dies its an obvious murder?

Firstly, I did not speak of genocide. I said that after a trial if the penalty is death and you are found guilty then the execution is acceptable. Secondly, can you provide proof that they are committing genocide and faking crimes in orde to kill people?

Have you actually looked into this? I'm guessing not as you keep using that word Duterte seems to have a problem with - trial. That's the whole issue.

Have you actually read back in the thread?
Did I make a statement on what I though Duarte was doing? I asked for proof that he was targeting people and making up crimes in order to havethem killed.
I am still waiting for that proof. Your BBC links are not proof of a systematic execution ordered by the govt (in fact they don't even state it).

a reply to: Puppylove

Quite simple really, I've viewed a number of sites, looked for any that take an opposing view and on this issue there are none. You appear to distrust because you choose to - that's your right.

If you don't mind if I ever see you referring to something presented from a much less verified source but which happens to meet your opinion I'll be happy to call you out for selectively picking what suits you and your personal opinion.

In this example, I'm not sure you will find any evidence anywhere that people are not being murdered - that means being killed due to suspicion of dealing in drugs with no due course or trial. It doesn't exist - no one is saying that doesn't take place. If a person who lives in the Philippines say they have not personally witnessed it, that doesn't really amount to much apart from them saying they haven't witnessed it. If people in the Philippines are happy that other people are being murdered by police and vigilantes to ensure the presidents dictat is followed, then I hope their president never decides that they fall into a group he selects should be eliminated.

ETA: I know this will make no difference to you, but here is an easy to capture list of sites publishing info about the death rates. I'm sure none of them will suit you, but hey, I can but try...

www.google.co.uk...=philippines+state+murder+of+drug+dealers

a reply to: UKTruth

Why aren't they? Do you believe the UN is lying? Has the president denied it? No, by no means. You don't want to believe a BBC report because it doesn't match your opinion even though in this case it's extremely black and white?


Of course not. I don't really expect you to believe anything that goes against what you want to believe. Please don't bother responding.

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Puppylove

Quite simple really, I've viewed a number of sites, looked for any that take an opposing view and on this issue there are none. You appear to distrust because you choose to - that's your right.

If you don't mind if I ever see you referring to something presented from a much less verified source but which happens to meet your opinion I'll be happy to call you out for selectively picking what suits you and your personal opinion.

In this example, I'm not sure you will find any evidence anywhere that people are not being murdered - that means being killed due to suspicion of dealing in drugs with no due course or trial. It doesn't exist - no one is saying that doesn't take place. If a person who lives in the Philippines say they have not personally witnessed it, that doesn't really amount to much apart from them saying they haven't witnessed it. If people in the Philippines are happy that other people are being murdered by police and vigilantes to ensure the presidents dictat is followed, then I hope their president never decides that they fall into a group he selects should be eliminated.

So far you have failed to prove your claim. When you actually have some proof then please do post it.

We know he said a very dumb thing that in all likelihood did lead to vigilante's executing drug dealers and I have little doubt that some innocent people have been caught up in it too. However, there is no evidence I have seen from you or anywhere else that Duarte has initiated and is coordinating a govt led execution of a group of people.

a reply to: uncommitted

People were being murdered before hand too. Difference is more of them were innocent and the murderers were protected by the government. So you could argue it's the same situation, just a matter of who's being protected by the government and who isn't.

These drug dealers do more than just sell drugs you know.

You all keep mentioning trials and law, but how can you have just and fair trials in a corrupt system where the criminals are the protected class?

You can both have a court and trial, but still have no real law. Even worse you can have laws that protect the worst of society, while unfairly subjugating the victims.

So lets say what you say is happening is happening. Can you confirm that it's not the result of a desperate people and their leader working to remove a blight that protects special interests and criminals subjugating and victimizing the countries populace?

There is a point where the court of becomes anything but just and fair. When that happens, you have no court of law, and I for one do not believe in defending a mirage that only leads to death masquerading as salvation.

Which ironically can potentially apply to Duterte as well.

So that in mind, this is where I stand. My fight is against the PTB and their corruption and subversion of society for their own ends.

I'm biased, I admit it. I fully believe there will be a time we need to rise against our government because the laws no longer serve to protect the people, but instead subjugate them to the whims of the few.

I'm willing to consider the possibility that for the Filipino's this is such a time.

a reply to: uncommitted

I've watched news videos on this subject from different countries. All of them are reporting multiple killings. There's one video that's been filmed off Philippines News here (NSFW) and shows a group of suspected 'drug pushers' being tied, dragged out to a field and killed. Leaving aside people who'll equivocate and fudge forever, there's no reason to doubt that many people have been summarily killed. It's real enough.

Puppylove posted a very persuasive justification for these type of actions earlier in the thread. Duterte is captain of the ship who can't trust any of his crew. If he's sincere in cleaning up his country, maybe this is the only way he can think to do it? The proof of that will be seen in the ways he tackles corruption where it matters - in the corridors of power.

It's all very well having the poorest of the poor being killed in the streets. It obviously appeals to a lot of people in this thread and will likely have the same effect in Manila. Will the death of street hustling dealers get rid of the bent cops, greedy courts and systemic corruption?

Personally, I think it's dangerous to hand over the power of jury and executioner to whoever feels like doing it. So much so that I can't see an upside to this one. Lots of downsides and no upsides. Even if a few serious bad guys get killed, there are bound to be many more who were innocent, misidentified and/or maliciously accused.

At this point, if she drank the water there, she might never recover. Imagine Montezum's revenge and uncontrollable coughing in a public venue!

a reply to: Kandinsky

Can you argue that isn't necessarily the typ of thing that needs to happen up and down system in Mexico? The cartels have thoroughly corrupted the system which was already corrupt. I think they're making inroads here aided by lax border policy and a corrupt system.

At some point it needs to end and it may very well get uglier before it gets any better.