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How isn't Globalism entirely anti-American?

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posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 06:28 AM
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Now that it's beyond abundantly clear that Progressivism is totally anti-Nationalist (love for ones nation), and totally pro-Globalist (obsession with making the whole world one big nation [or is it non-nation,I dunno]), I cannot see much potential for there being any other way to take this issue than Progressive's are truly anti-American.

Can any resident Progressives explain this one for me?

From there is you might be able to explain how we're somehow supposed to have a cohesive culture HERE if every culture OUT THERE is to be given prominence (above our own).

I suspect you might have a whole angle about America is full of diverse people from every culture, but I always thought that this, this American Culture is why they came here to be a part of it. How is Globalism NOT some odd agenda to bring the actual Culture's here, rather than the people that come from them who believe in American Culture?

Do note that many if not most people that went to the trouble to come here the past 200 years were escaping the ways the governments that their cultures spawned ultimately went wrong.

Lastly, if you actually do identify as being "anti-American", what is it you're so against?

EDIT: I changed the thread title from Progressivism to Globalism, as it seemed to be causing confusion. I'm trying to frame this 'Progressivism' issue all around this Globalism concept fr this discussion, to avoid any confusion here.

edit on 5-9-2016 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 06:36 AM
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Seems pretty obvious to me as well. Let's see who comes on here to supply you with a rebuttal. I'd be interested in the contortions created from the mental gymnastics involved in the responses.
edit on 5-9-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: typo



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 06:53 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

But, it was a conservative that wanted to go global and nation build the ME starting with Iraq.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 07:00 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

So people who are progressive are anti American? .
Sorry nope can't see it myself. Cultures mix and change all the time has for thousands of years over here in the uk. You can't stop it.
I suspect what you think American culture is it will be different from what other americans think.
Thought that was what is great about the usa all different cultures living together.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 07:02 AM
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a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

Okay, how isn't GLOBALISM anti-American? There, is that better?

Is it different CULTURES living together, or PEOPLE from different cultures living together???
edit on 5-9-2016 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Both.
Like it or not one day we will have a global government it is inevitable but I think it will not happen for 100 or so years.
Globalisation is happening and has been for decades. You can still love your country and support globalisation.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 07:26 AM
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The problem I think is that most Progressives imagine a future Global Government to be pattern after the US or at least the EU. However, Globalism tends to favor systems that are either an Oligarchy or Tolitalian in nature. The reason being, in a Global Government, freedom have to be limited so that Government can control people who disagree with the system. I would imagine a Global system more like Russia or China than a Constitutional Republic like the US. Heck, if you look at the the US we are sadly transforming slowly into an Oligarchy to satisfy the Globalists.
edit on 5-9-2016 by joemoe because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 07:29 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

Okay, how isn't GLOBALISM anti-American? There, is that better?

Is it different CULTURES living together, or PEOPLE from different cultures living together???


Put that way, globalism is anti-every-nation.

But if you want to keep discussing Progressivism, we'll need to see the tenets. I did a quick search online and came up with the Wilson era which were:

1) Pro Education
2) Pro Corporate Regulation
3) Pro Immigration
4) Pro-Involvement in Politics (initiative, referendum, recall)

None of these ideas are anti-American per say, but they are not the ideas I have come to associate with modern progressivism, among which are the above tenets mutated into:

1) Free child care and schooling, pre-K to advanced college
2) Crony capitalism
3) Globalism
4) Treating sovereign constitutions as living documents that can be openly interpreted

In that regard I find Modern Progressivism to definitely be anti-american in that it requires Big Government and erosion of the Constitution that was written to protect People's Rights from central planning.

But as said above, we should wait for resident Progressives to chime in.
edit on 5-9-2016 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 07:35 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss




How isn't Progressivism entirely anti-American?



In short, because our ideals encompass a freedom so vast and extensive - as to protect even the right to self destruct.
Like all ideologies it should be cherished if not embraced, celebrated though not espoused.

Without contrast, the more sensible ideas would lose their luster and we would soon find our necks on the block of one completely totalitarian regime or another.

To me this is what "the animating contest of freedom" means.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: blood0fheroes

I like this explanation. I'm not awake enough to really develop a thought here right now, but I feel as though modern progressivism and modern conservatism are both just failing attempts at adapting our nation (US I'm referring to) to a changed and changing world.

We haven't yet figured out how to keep "America" the culture and the nation as we know it, while also striving to adapt, evolve and thrive given our current circumstances. The People want it, and are being led off two sides of a cliff by politicians disguising their true motives as attempts at solutions.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: blood0fheroes

No, that's libertarianism in its proper expression.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:12 AM
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We can't have a serious discussion about this until you define what "progressivism" is. Progressive and conservative are vague and relative terms. What's considered progressive in one city can be considered conservative in another. But since I'm assuming your talking about the typical American progressive stereotypes, I'll play along.

Are you asking if the promotion of green technology is anti-American? Because American "progressives" tend to love green and sustainable energy supplies. Ironically, getting our cities to generate 100% of their own power sustainably would decrease our dependence on foreign energy supplies & help national security.

Is the promotion of high speed rail anti-American? Because American "progressives" tend to want a nationwide high speed rail system, which would vastly increase inter-state travel and domestic tourism. How is it anti-American to create a faster system for Americans to travel through our country? That's like saying the interstate and highway system is also anti-American.

Is the promotion of equal rights, benefits, opportunities and duties for all Americans also anti-American? If so, that's new to me because the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution agrees with our position. Unless the US Constitution is also anti-American in your eyes.

Is the promotion of women's rights, women's reproductive rights, and equal pay for women somehow anti-American in your eyes? Because American "progressives" tend to push for women's rights. And since females make up half of the American population, I think it's fair to say they should have an equal say in their country.

Oh, maybe you consider the strengthening of the American social safety net, public school system, and social programs to be anti-American? Because American "progressives" tend to push for American tax dollars to help out poor Americans, elderly Americans, and American schoolchildren. Please explain to me how it's anti-American to help poor Americans and to have the American govt improve the daily lives of the American public (unless you think good roads, high quality schools, and other public programs are anti-American).

There are many other examples I could use, but I'll leave with this one: the environment. I'm unapologetically a "treehugger". I want America to have clean air, clean waterways, clean drinking water, and unpolluted soil. I want every single American to be able to visit our beautiful national parks and swim in the waters without worrying about toxic runoff being in the water. I don't eat meat anymore, but I want all of you to be able to go fishing and get fish for your families without worrying about mercury poisoning. How does that make me anti-American? Environmentalists literally want all of us to have clean air, water, and soil, but somehow that's considered anti-American?

Are you sure you even know what it means to be progressive?



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

From there is you might be able to explain how we're somehow supposed to have a cohesive culture HERE if every culture OUT THERE is to be given prominence (above our own).

That question contains the answer to your overall observation concerning Progressives/Globalism.

Progressives are less "anti-American" culture than they are against the notion of American culture/systems being considered exceptional. They aren't interested in giving other cultures prominence over the US American culture. What' they're opposed to is the US American culture being preeminent, or in prominence over the other cultures and societies.

They aren't interested in creating a cohesive "culture" HERE so much as they're fighting to create a cohesive society administered by an authoritarian, all powerful, central government that awards the goodies produced, not on the basis of an individuals merits but rather on the basis of an individuals status as determined by the extent they have suffered oppression by the old American culture of white privilege. To understand Progressives, one must first understand that their ideological roots are in Marxist ideology. So, they embrace the idea of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs":
en.wikipedia.org...
"The principle refers to free access and distribution of goods, capital and services."

As well, at their heart, the "Globalists" ideology is rooted in what might be called "Global Marxism". Thus Obama defends TPP in an interview this weekend when he stated that US Americans can't deny the fact that Free Trade Agreements have done the absolute most to raise the living standards in Third World countries. So, they seek to raise the standard of living in third world countries at the expense of first world countries and societies.

And, Obama's correct. Embrace of open borders and Globalized Free Trade has had the effect of freezing the real purchasing power of US American workers in place while seeing the base wage of workers in Third World countries rise. In fact, since the 1970's, the purchasing power of US workers has actually declined.

Discussion of this matter is mostly pointless because at the end of the day, the Marxist Progressives and the Global Marxists always win because they are remarkably relentless and single minded in the pursuit of their goals.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Rome collapsed when too many conquered nations were brought into the Empire. One big happy hegemony, right? Wrong.

People never give up their independence, tend to get really upset when its forcibly taken from them. You may think its all peachy keen on the surface, but beneath these nations and people are seething, ripe for revolt. Just keep on bringing then into the fold and see what happens.

No choice really . See flood of refugees in EU. Where else they gonna go?



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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Lastly, if you actually do identify as being "anti-American", what is it you're so against?

Americans are upset at the usurpers that have taken control of this country alway from the people.

Thats not anti american, by the way.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:28 AM
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In a sense, progressivism has morphed into a utopian ideal. It is a pseudo-religious belief that humanity can create its own ideal state, but before that can happen, every single vestige of the old must be torn down and cast aside, even including the old molds of mankind, hence the current glorification of transgenderism. It isn't so much because they want us to become transgender, but they want a tabula rasa state.

Blank slate people adrift with no past connections, no history, no old notions of humanity, nothing.

They think only then can they usher in their utopian ideal administered globally from the top down in which all people are essentially nothing more or less than parts in the system, cogs to the wheel, but happy in that state because we have no prior rudders to judge from.



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:28 AM
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*double post*
edit on 5-9-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Your nation was founded by progressives, with progressive ideologies.

So, that makes sense. On the globalist front, nobody envisioned our 'huge world' getting ' so small' with the advent of technology.

It's the bankers and CEO's of the world who want this to be Globalist in nature. The average person does not care.

But being progressive isn't anti-national that's just silly.


From there is you might be able to explain how we're somehow supposed to have a cohesive culture HERE if every culture OUT THERE is to be given prominence (above our own).


American is in a unique position because it has no actual culture. America's culture is the result of all other cultures mixing together and creating something new. The 'pop culture' of America is emulated all around the world, we see it all the time - poorly mind you but they still try.

American culture is the envy of the world, even though it's not very cultural, hilariously enough.

But the world has mainly become globalist, because of American policies, actions and corporations.

~Tenth

edit on 9/5/2016 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:48 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

Okay, how isn't GLOBALISM anti-American? There, is that better?

Is it different CULTURES living together, or PEOPLE from different cultures living together???





Globalism is "freedomophobia" - the fear of free thinking, criticism and freedom in general.
Maybe we can go on silencing and bullying freedomophobes like they do to everyone else, until, at least, they see how insane this approach is...



posted on Sep, 5 2016 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

No, it was founded by Classical Liberals, not progressives. If it had been founded by progressives, there would be no need for a progressive movement today.



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