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Still Believe "Anti-Establishment" Trump Will Clean Up Politics?

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posted on Sep, 6 2016 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

No, I said it's possible to use descriptors without being a partisan jerk. We aren't talking about pejoratives here after all but labels people choose to apply to themselves.

I'm very far Left, a Libertarian Socialist to be precise, why shouldn't I say so? I have no issue correcting people who think that I'm Liberal or Progressive. I actually see it as an opportunity to show that there's a much wider range of thought than they may have known.

How far should this language policing go even? If we're having a discussion about religion should we say people who worship Jesus instead of Christian? People who believe in a pantheon? Am I talking about Pagans or Hindus. Which subsets of either?




posted on Sep, 6 2016 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: Winstonian


Damn. Voting for Hillary now, you got me. She is so qualified, and has a vagina.


Why is it that people feel the need to say things like this? I'm not telling anyone who to vote for. What keeps me posting is stuff like this:


Anyone supporting Trump knows that he plays the game. You do not become a billionaire in this country without gaming the system. Yes, he filed BK, another legal tool. Yes, he made deals with politicians for personal gain. This is the system our country operates on. He understands the system, and will surround himself with the best people for the job, as he has proven that he is a leader, and that's what a leader does.


The "gaming the system" you're talking about is the same "gaming the system" that the Clintons are guilty of except in their case, it's simply called "corruption." You might as well just say that "Trump is better at being corrupt" instead of trying to spin it into something innocuous.


This is the system our country operates on.


That same excuse couldn't be made for the Clintons? Did they create the system?


He understands the system, and will surround himself with the best people for the job, as he has proven that he is a leader, and that's what a leader does.


Look at his economic advisory team. He's got 2-3 economists, a couple private bank owners and the rest are real estate moguls. Most of them are simply longtime billionaire buddies. One of those economists was the chief economist for Bear Sterns in the years leading up to our most recent economic collapse — a guy who was claiming right up to the end that there was nothing to worry about because the housing market wasn't a large enough sector of the economy for concern.

Just like the Clintons (or any of the rest), he's planning to bring his friends along for the ride.


People always talk about how he is inexperienced in politics. It's as if they believe the president sits in the oval office alone and makes every decision by himself, instead of having a cabinet and huge group of hand selected advisers.


"I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me"


From what I can tell, part of his reason for running is to get a type of revenge against the political rich ruling class in this country. I want that same revenge.


1988 - first time Trump talked about running for President.
2000 - entered presidential race as reform candidate
2004 - Trump publicly opines about running for President again.
2012 - after again publicly mulling with the idea of running President yet again, endorses Romney

Trump has been toying with the idea for decades. Decades during which he which he was bribing politicians, in bed with the mob, outsourcing manufacturing jobs and employing foreign workers in the US wherever possible — with or without visas — but this time he's out to get "revenge" on his friends and acquaintances?

Come on. Really? You're not stupid. Just like Clinton he's saying whatever he thinks will get him elected.

Like I said, I don't tell people who to vote for. Vote for whoever — vote for Trump if you honestly believe that he's the lesser of two evils — but let's not all pretend like he's somehow substantially less crooked or more honest than Clinton.



posted on Sep, 6 2016 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

In case anyone has not heard of David Bossie before Citizens United.
ETA bold mine


Back in 1992, Bossie was working with Floyd Brown, of Willie Horton 1988 campaign ad fame, on an anti-Clinton effort that included a phone line in which callers could pay $4.99 to hear supposed sex tapes between Bill Clinton and Gennifer Flowers. President George H.W. Bush denounced the tactic as "the kind of sleaze that diminishes the political process" and filed a Federal Election Commission complaint against the group, the Presidential Victory Commission.

Bossie's particular contribution to this effort involved harassing friends and family of a former law student of Clinton's, Susan Coleman, who had committed suicide. As reported by CBS' Eric Engberg, Bossie's effort involved trying to prove that Coleman shot herself after having a sexual relationship with Clinton and becoming pregnant.

Bossie and another investigator pursued Coleman's mother to an Army hospital where her husband was being treated for a stroke. "Here the two men burst into the sick man's room, and began questioning the shaken mother about her daughter's suicide," Engberg reported.

Five years later, Lloyd Grove recounted in The Washington Post, "A chastened Bossie later told friends that the CBS story had made his grandmother cry."

Chastened? Not so much. Grove was writing about Bossie because he had landed himself back in the news, this time as a committee investigator for former Republican Rep. Dan Burton (of Vince Foster was murdered and shooting a pumpkin, or maybe a melon, to prove it fame).

After working with Bossie for several months on the investigation into Clinton's campaign fund-raising, the committee's chief counsel and two other staffers, with the lawyer, John Rowley III, issued a public letter denouncing Bossie's "unrelenting, self-promoting actions."

"Not since Roy Cohn -- the bare-knuckled chief counsel for Sen. Joe McCarthy in the Red-hunting hearings of the 1950s -- has a congressional staffer been so thoroughly demonized by his enemies," Grove wrote. The comparison is particularly striking in retrospect, since post-McCarthy Cohn became Trump's lawyer.

Less than a year later, Burton was forced to apologize to his colleagues and Bossie resigned under pressure, after accusations that tapes of former Hillary Clinton law partner Webster Hubbell had been unfairly edited to exclude exculpatory comments about whether Clinton had known of his phony billing. (She had "no idea," Hubbell said.)

In a closed-door Republican conference meeting, then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich told Burton he was "embarrassed ... at the circus that went on at your committee," The Washington Post reported.


Trump's New Hire Is Captain Ahab of Clinton Haters

Far from something new and different, Trump has taken a trip in the Republican Party wayback machine. Bossie is old stuff and samo samo, dishing out poo as if it were food. And some will indeed eat what he dishes out.
edit on 6-9-2016 by desert because: bold



posted on Sep, 6 2016 @ 06:06 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: DBCowboy


Are you a nationalist or a globalist? Easy question.


That's a false dichotomy.

I'm a proud and patriotic American and I'm also what might be described as an alter-globalist.


Here's the basic problem with globalism. Human beings. There's a mountain of proof that George Bush, Rockefeller, et al, have been plotting this for decades, if not centuries. And if THESE are the kind of people who will be in control of a 'global' gov't, then we are all doomed. Because they have all shown, time and again, that they could give two #hits about any of us.

Now, in a perfect world, and if I was twenty one again, I would probably fall for the globalist propaganda, because I was very naive, and always looked at the better side of humanity. I still do, but I also have realized that the people that gravitate towards politics have serious power and control issues. So, the only people who really SHOULD be running a global gov't, would be those people that don't want to.

And that last statement says it all, IMO.



posted on Sep, 6 2016 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

"Christian" is well-defined as someone who follows the teachings of Jesus. Hindu is well-defined. Pagan, not so much. All are pretty ancient descriptors.

"Alt-right" is undefined and new to the scene. That's the problem with it. It was made up and is used to make false ad hominem attacks. It doesn't matter who made it up; it's still used for that purpose.

"Christian" has even been twisted on occasion, but it never stuck. Westboro Baptist Church: ever hear of them? A group that acts very un-Christian, but many have tried to use the label to attack all Christians based solely on the fact they use a label. How about the Confederate Battlejack? A few hate groups decide to use it, and suddenly a flag representing pride and heritage is seen as a symbol of hate. Everyone who flies it is automatically branded a racist, which can actually get funny when a black man flies one (yes, it's rare but it has happened).

This is all just an attempt to win an argument at any cost. Those who depend on labels are lazy cowards, not capable of presenting a coherent argument... that's why they need the labels.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 6 2016 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: TheRedneck

No, I said it's possible to use descriptors without being a partisan jerk. We aren't talking about pejoratives here after all but labels people choose to apply to themselves.

I'm very far Left, a Libertarian Socialist to be precise, why shouldn't I say so? I have no issue correcting people who think that I'm Liberal or Progressive. I actually see it as an opportunity to show that there's a much wider range of thought than they may have known.

How far should this language policing go even? If we're having a discussion about religion should we say people who worship Jesus instead of Christian? People who believe in a pantheon? Am I talking about Pagans or Hindus. Which subsets of either?


LOL! A 'libertarian socialist'! Pray tell, exactly how does THAT work? Minimal gov't and oppressive gov't all in the same brain. Geez. Some people scare me with how they try to think.



posted on Sep, 6 2016 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: nomoredemsorreps

Actually we are little to no government, labor market vs capitalism... live and let live kind of people.



posted on Sep, 6 2016 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Nah. Just trying to apply a little common sense.



posted on Sep, 7 2016 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: Kali74

Doesn't sound like the common sense I grew up with.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 7 2016 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Last word.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 12:41 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: nomoredemsorreps

Actually we are little to no government, labor market vs capitalism... live and let live kind of people.


Okay, well that's the libertarian end of it. You do know what the definite of socialism is, right? How do you manage to fit a socialist gov't into a libertarian methodology?? It just doesn't work, dude. Find another word...



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 01:05 AM
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trump is so steeped in scnadal but the more scandals the more the trumpbots cheers, must be programmed into them



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: nomoredemsorreps

You're describing what Socialism has come to mean in the US but it's not what Socialism actually is. Socialism is a market based on the value of labor rather than capital.



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