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Still Believe "Anti-Establishment" Trump Will Clean Up Politics?

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posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 01:45 PM
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A little over a week ago, Donald Trump vowed once more to clean up corruption in politics saying that if elected he'd make government "clean and honest."

This week it was revealed that the Trump had paid a fine to the IRS for an illegal campaign donation to Florida AG Pam Bondi back in 2013 and furthermore, that the contribution which was made from his foundation was deliberately misrepresented as a contribution to a group with a name similar to that of Bondi's PAC. The illegal "contribution" (bribe) was made six days after Bondi solicited Trump at a time when her office was investigating complaints from Florida residents who had been bilked by Trump's "university" scam.

Shortly after the bribe was paid, the investigation was dropped.

Now I know a lot of the ardent Trump supporters will argue that this sort of overt corruption which Trump has bragged about is in the past and that the Trump we see today is the new anti-corruption, anti-cronyism blue collar billionaire Trump (who stocked his economic advisory team not with economists but mostly real estate billionaires and bankers) — a real defender of the everyday American.

This is the new Trump folks — believe him — the old Trump is the one who engaged in 40+ years of pay-for-play with hundreds of politicians at every level of government. This guy? Yuuuuge difference.

Why then has Donald Trump who has repeatedly linked campaign finance to corruption in his rhetoric, criticizing his GOP rivals as being "totally in cahoots" with big money donors, hired the president of Citizen's United of all people to be a deputy campaign manager?

Donald Trump hires head of Citizens United to be deputy campaign manager


Donald Trump has a new deputy campaign manager, effective immediately. It’s David Bossie, the longtime president of Citizens United, a conservative group best known for the Supreme Court case that overturned campaign financing laws. Bossie and Trump have a longstanding personal and political relationship, dating back to the Citizens United v. the FEC, a case that piqued Trump’s interest. It was forged in the same year as the decision, 2010, through Las Vegas Casino magnate Steve Wynn, who told Trump he was impressed with Bossie’s political skills. At the time, Trump was toying with the idea of running for president in 2012.


We're talking about the die-hard GOP establishment figure behind the organization whose efforts threw open the floodgates, leading to an explosive influx of the very dark money behind that "rigged system" that Donald Trump keeps blathering about.

It's not surprising that he's actually known for Bossie for years and was introduced to him by long-time billionaire buddy Steve Wynn (himself a Trump advisor). What's surprising is how many loyal supporters continue to insist that Trump is an anti-establishment figure.
edit on 2016-9-3 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



+16 more 
posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I'm confused.

Is "establishment" bad or good to the leftists?

I was under the impression that you wanted "establishment" and bigger government and higher taxes because your supporting Hillary.

So is Trump bad because you think he's establishment?

Also, just because you may have fallen for "hope and change", don't project that same mindless drivel on the rest of us. Unlike you with Obama, we know Trump won't lower the waters and bring sunshine out his ass.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Wait he won't? Dammit there goes my vote, and I was almost convinced too.

Ass sunshine or bust!
edit on 9/3/2016 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Guess I better for for Hillary then!



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:10 PM
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Is it just me, or are Clinton supporters getting more desperate?

Trump already said he knew how to play the system and that is why he can change it... during the primary.

CNN top stories:
  • Donald Trump's gracious church visit and tour of poorest Detroit areas

  • Clinton told the FBI she "couldn't remember" HOW MANY times?

Even the pundits trying to spin Trump's visit went from talking to screaming today...

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: theantediluvian

I'm confused.

Is "establishment" bad or good to the leftists?


It's bad when it suites them...
But mainly good when it's taxing us down the barrel of a gun!
All this is still very confusing to me too.
It's like people are not allowed to grow or evolve in opinion anymore.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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Thank you for another great thread, I wish I could give more than one star and flag.

Also thank you to trump fans, the excuses are getting better by the day.

Choo choo trump train wooooooo


+8 more 
posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


I'm confused. Is "establishment" bad or good to the leftists? I was under the impression that you wanted "establishment" and bigger government and higher taxes because your supporting Hillary. So is Trump bad because you think he's establishment?


You're confused on several points. I didn't offer any opinion on "the establishment" at all because I'm not a moron who goes around saying stupid things about how a major party candidate is "anti-establishment."

I'm also not a "Hillary supporter." I may very well vote for Hillary Clinton in this election but not because I'm laboring under some delusion about how "anti-establishment" Hillary Clinton is lol. I'm just pointing out the obvious that you and the other Trump supporters continue to ignore, excuse and deflect (like you're deflecting now by attacking ME instead of addressing the topic — nice).


Also, just because you may have fallen for "hope and change", don't project that same mindless drivel on the rest of us. Unlike you with Obama, we know Trump won't lower the waters and bring sunshine out his ass.


Holy straw man. I didn't fall for any "hope and change" anything but maybe you should stop deluding yourself and take a look at your peer group who have essentially fallen for the white nationalist version of "hope and change" HOOK, LINE, and SINKER.


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posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: theantediluvian

Guess I better for for Hillary then!


I don't particularly care who you vote for. I'm just trying to give some of you willfully unabashedly ignorant ATS Trumpeteers a little something to ponder.

Three responses in and not one shred of substance. No arguing the facts or debating my assessment, just personal attacks and mindless one-liners.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Cards down...I think both are rotten. If people want to act like Trump is gonna sweep away the corruption they're deluding themselves. Same for Clinton although I haven't seen anyone going there with her lol.

Following through your links I read this:


Donald Trump bragged Thursday night that he could buy politicians — even the ones sharing the stage with him at a Republican presidential debate.

Trump was asked about something he said in a previous interview: “When you give, they do whatever the hell you want them to do.”

“You’d better believe it,” Trump said. “If I ask them, if I need them, you know, most of the people on this stage I’ve given to, just so you understand, a lot of money.”
Link

He's showing that both sides are corrupt. At least he's indicating the ugly truth when we look at the Donor Lookup site. At least 16 years of donating to Democrats and Republicans. Fair enough, he's putting all the donations towards Republicans since 2015 because that's where his bread is buttered - he needs their support.

Before then he'd donate to whoever served a purpose. Politicians come cheap if his quote above is taken at face value. Most of them are a couple of thousand dollars a piece.





I haven't totalled how much he gave to Hillary Clinton.

He implies the system is broken and corrupted by the politicians being for sale. No news there since forever.

Instead of people celebrating his 'anti-establishment' credentials they should acknowledge that he's as corrupting and corrupted as anyone else in the political system. The system is f***** and voting for either candidate is a 'Yes Vote' for it to continue. Celebrating the empty words of these people is like turning a blind eye.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Trump already said he knew how to play the system and that is why he can change it... during the primary.


Trump is just as much a part of the system as Clinton. Are we agreed with the exception that you've apparently bought into the bit about how he's reformed now?

Anyone can say anything.

What do his actions — actions like hiring Mr. Big Dark Money himself, David Bossie, who he's known since his crooked days — indicate about the reality of Donald Trump?

Trump isn't about changing anything except his address and title any more than Hillary Clinton is. In many regards, they're peas in a pod. Trump however has positioned himself as the darling of the white nationalist alt-right (care to argue that one?) and he's about as unstable as a box of sweaty dynamite sitting on a washing machine that's about to enter the spin cycle.

Given a choice between these two dishonest cronies, without the white nationalist pandering, I might have considered Donald Trump. As it is now, I see a vote for Trump as a vote not even for preserving the status quo but as a mandate for regression if not an all out call for right-wing authoritarianism.
edit on 2016-9-3 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: DBCowboy


I'm confused. Is "establishment" bad or good to the leftists? I was under the impression that you wanted "establishment" and bigger government and higher taxes because your supporting Hillary. So is Trump bad because you think he's establishment?


You're confused on several points. I didn't offer any opinion on "the establishment" at all because I'm not a moron who goes around saying stupid things about how a major party candidate is "anti-establishment."

I'm also not a "Hillary supporter." I may very well vote for Hillary Clinton in this election but not because I'm laboring under some delusion about how "anti-establishment" Hillary Clinton is lol. I'm just pointing out the obvious that you and the other Trump supporters continue to ignore, excuse and deflect (like you're deflecting now by attacking ME instead of addressing the topic — nice).


Also, just because you may have fallen for "hope and change", don't project that same mindless drivel on the rest of us. Unlike you with Obama, we know Trump won't lower the waters and bring sunshine out his ass.


Holy straw man. I didn't fall for any "hope and change" anything but maybe you should stop deluding yourself and take a look at your peer group who have essentially fallen for the white nationalist version of "hope and change" HOOK, LINE, and SINKER.


Good God man, do you always talk in circles like this?

You are a admitted Hillary fan, but your not?

I see you crying on all these threads about Trump and dissing their supporters like you ARE Hillary.

Why don't you add a little substance to your copy and paste record correction attempt?

WHY would you vote/support Hillary?

Should be a rhetorical question, I don't think you can produce any legitimate reasons.

It would be neat to have a female president?-no


You are impressed by her 6 billion dollar tax embezzlement scheme?

If you are trying to take down what's left of the country, at least tell me why.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

The White Nationalists are about as real and influential as the new Harry Potter KKK propaganda film.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian

Holy straw man. I didn't fall for any "hope and change" anything but maybe you should stop deluding yourself and take a look at your peer group who have essentially fallen for the white nationalist version of "hope and change" HOOK, LINE, and SINKER.


So anyone who doesn't think like you is a racist.

What I expected.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: theantediluvian

Guess I better for for Hillary then!


Why is it one or the other?

Why is it a choice between a douche and a turd?



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: Mandroid7

Hello, useful idiot of the orange messiah. Would you care to address the topic of the thread or do you have nothing at all to say?

Be the one Trump fanboy who has enough character to transcend the urge to resort to dubious double spaced personal attacks. You can do it. You don't have to wait for Breitbart, WND or The Gateway Pundit to give you programming to parrot on the interwebz, you can — if you want — do something beyond half-assed deflection.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian


Trump is just as much a part of the system as Clinton. Are we agreed with the exception that you've apparently bought into the bit about how he's reformed now?

I'm not convinced he needs reformed. He donated money; he didn't sell favors for it. That's just how you do business in the USA. He also used bankruptcy laws to his advantage. He also used the court system to his advantage. Every billionaire on the planet uses legalities (and some common illegalities) to protect their assets.

Trump didn't create the court system or bankruptcy laws. Trump didn't create the backdoor pay-to-play system. He just used it. The politicians in office, the "establishment" if you will, created them.

He may not fix it. But there's more chance he will than anyone making their money directly from it. Mother Teresa isn't running. If she were, I'd probably prefer her.

I have to give you kudos though... that's a very convenient argument to keep the status quo. Make sure no one can challenge you without playing your game, then point out they played your game if they ever try to challenge you. Nice.

Don't know much about David Bossier. I can't spend the time required to track down every allegation against Trump. Feel free to enlighten me.


Trump isn't about changing anything except his address and title any more than Hillary Clinton is. In many regards, they're peas in a pod. Trump however has positioned himself as the darling of the white nationalist alt-right (care to argue that one?) and he's about as unstable as a box of sweaty dynamite sitting on a washing machine that's about to enter the spin cycle.

Right there you lost me. Alt-right. That label didn't exist until a few weeks ago. I firmly believe it's nothing short of yet another attempt to shame me because of the color of my skin. The use of that term firmly establishes in my mind that you would love nothing better than to call me a racist openly, but don't have the intestinal fortitude to do so.

I'm white. Being so does not automatically make me a racist. Live with it. Enough is enough.

If all Trump manages to do in 8 years is stop the PC label-making nonsense, he should have his face on Mount Rushmore.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 03:03 PM
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Welp, I guess I'd better just reply with a false equivalency whereby insinuating there's only two choices.


+1 more 
posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Yeah deny that the alt-right is ripe with white nationalism and falsely accuse me of some BS. Seriously? That's the best you can do? Accuse me of calling people who don't agree with me racists?

You're just proving my point yet again. You're not even talking to me, you're just flinging baseless allegations at me.

Here. For the 4th time this week, I'm going to share this link to an article published in March on Breitbart, co-authored by Milo Yiannopoulos an undeniable favorite of ATSers:

An Establishment Conservative’s Guide To The Alt-Right

I won't even paste excerpts. Read a very candid analysis of the alt-right and then try to tell me that the alt-right, a driving force behind Donald Trump, is not centrally focused on white nationalism, white identity, whatever term doesn't make you squirm so much that your brain immediately rejects reality.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: eNumbra
Welp, I guess I'd better just reply with a false equivalency whereby insinuating there's only two choices.


You're right. There are several choices and not voting is always a choice as well. I don't tell people who to vote for. I don't even tell people to vote.

That said. In practical terms, this is a two horse race. It will always be that way unless we overhaul the entire election system in this country. Don't believe me? Read up on Duverger's law a little.



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