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U.S. Troops Kill Two Civilians in Iraq

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posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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Indigo, this is a terrible event. Nothing good can come from it, no arguement there.


But....


How dare you ASSUME that US soldiers would rather KILL these people than not. There is not one single US soldier in Iraq right now that wants to kill people, let alone an innocent family.


Did I assume it? Or the driver of the car? He was right as well.


would never kill for pleasure and fabricate stories just for the opportunity to kill. Because thats what your statement suggests.


And you know this, because you have keep a tab on every US solider in the war... right? Please feel free to click on "Nazi America" in my signature.


How many of those soldiers involed have kids of thier own? Or little brothers and sisters back at home? You slap me and my countryment in the face to suggest for a second that they made this story up to justify killing people for no reason.


How are you slapped in the face, and how are you country men slapped in the face? I did not know America had been connected to the borg mind already?

I hate to break it to you, but these soldiers, kill and terrorize civilians everyday in Iraq. It's been covered on the news, it's been uncovered from independent investigations, and has been exposed by some ex-marines. You're just in denial, mate. I am not going to wait on you. Do yourself a favour and think for yourself.

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]




posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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I need to appoligize Indigo. After reading your response, I remembered who I was debating with. I understand now the futility of what I was attempting to communicate and to who. You will always be right and 100% of everything bad that happens in the world is the USA's fault.



(Note to self: Be more carefull who I try to debate against, some are so deep into thier madness its futile...)



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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Then wouldn't the answer lay in letting the elections happen, the Americans leave and taking it up from there? How does killing a wedding party in front of a Mosque help the cause of freedom? Killing Americans I could understand, but this makes no sense


That it spreads a culture of fear amongst the Iraqies, is the only answer one can provide at the moment. The cause of the bombing at this wedding is currently unkown: unknown in regards to motive and directors. It could have been that one of the wedded was a proponent of the elections in America and was highly public with his/her denouncement of terrorist activity. I'm not really sure.

Iraqies are highly pliable peoples as we speak, and as I have stated before, both parties, fanatic and American alike , have caste a universal umbrage. When both sides spew dogma and propaganda, we have a very confused people; when both sides are killing innocents, we have a very afraid people.

Like I stated before, this is a tought issue to deal with.

Deep

[edit on 21-1-2005 by ZeroDeep]

[edit on 21-1-2005 by ZeroDeep]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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as posted by Indigo_Child
In the end it does not matter, what number it is, 10,000 25,000, 50,000 or 100,000.


Oh, now it doesn't matter.
Didn't seem that way when you haphazardly made that claim and assertion.
Debunked or denied? Indigo_Child, whether they are either, they disprove your haphazard assertion and claim. As such, you take your choice of descriptives. Your numbers and assertion were proven to the contrary and proven to be bunk.




seekerof

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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as posted by Indigo_Child
The insurgents themselves are nothing more than Iraqi trying to fight for their own freedom.


One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist

Here's the facts on those alledged freedom fighters:
* they are mainly disgruntled Ba'athist members who don't give a rat's behind about what the other 90% of Iraqi populance desire or want, other than wanting the return of Saddam to power.
* they are from Syria
* they are from Iran
* they are affiliated and/or members of Zarqawi's outfits.
* Zarqawi is a terrorist and goes against Islamic law and practices by targeting fellow Arabs of Islam. The Qu'ran holds no bounds to and on him.
* they are mainly terrorists because freedom fighters do not target their own people, be they Arabs, of Islam, or Iraqis.



seekerof



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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as posted by Indigo_Child
I hate to break it to you, but these soldiers, kill and terrorize civilians everyday in Iraq. It's been covered on the news, it's been uncovered from independent investigations, and has been exposed by some ex-marines. You're just in denial, mate. I am not going to wait on you. Do yourself a favour and think for yourself.


Hell, if no one else will, I'll call your bluff: provide those uncovered independent investigations and those ex-Marines reports that are asserting and claiming that "these soldiers, kill and terrorize civilians everyday," k?
Your assertion and claim of "every day" is another typical anti-war statement, null-in-void of any type credible and verified legit sourcing. Provide to the contrary. Show me that legit material that states "everyday".




seekerof

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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Who's to say the father wasn't an insurgent and just wanted to make a martar out of his own family?...

People you have to understand that our soldiers are running around restrained like headless chickens over there and are taking on pop shots from all directions. These soldiers spend every day not knowing who is the good guy or bad guy and are on high alert for their lives! If a car is coming toward your check point and fails to stop....Your heart would race and you would want to defend your life!!

Im not saying that i know the story of what happend here, but don't automatically assume that the soldiers went on a killing rampage cruely and purposely.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist


May you be as so kind to provide proof to these claims? I do hope you don't tout CNN, no offence, Cnn will molest the public with whatever they have been with by the governement. I want statistics and death counts of foriegn fighters which were captured and or killed -- not just insinuations.

Deep



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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as posted by ZeroDeep
May you be as so kind to provide proof to these claims?


To what ZeroDeep? To this: one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist
Typical you would would want evidences to "claims" when the same is asked of those with countering views and they have yet to provide to the contrary. Your not asking them, are you? Why? Because you agree with their views. The moment that a contray "claim" is given, you then ask for proofs to those contrary claims. Interesting, huh? And no, seldom to none will you see me quote a CNN bunk source.




seekerof



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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Let's take some statistics in regards to these infamous Foreign fighters:

www.usatoday.com...




Suspected foreign fighters account for less than 2% of the 5,700 captives being held as security threats in Iraq, a strong indication that Iraqis are largely responsible for the stubborn insurgency.

Since last August, coalition forces have detained 17,700 people in Iraq who were considered to be enemy fighters or security risks, and about 400 were foreign nationals, according to figures supplied last week by the U.S. military command handling detention operations in Iraq. Most of those detainees were freed after a review board found they didn't pose significant threats. About 5,700 remain in custody, 90 of them non-Iraqis.


www.national-socialism.us...

Deep



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
This kind of brutality and terrorism inflicted by US forces is common place in Iraq. I can understand why the Iraqi family did not stop. Nor would I, if I heard gun shots and Nazis stopping me on roads. If you stop, you still could be screwed.

Sorry sister, but I was a soldier and we would not have killed you if you stopped. However, if you attempt to run the roadblock in a vehicle, then there is a concern that you are another terrorists whose car is loaded with munitions and you will be shot and killed before you can detonate your bomb.

I agree with you that this type of brutality and terrorism inflicted by suicide bombers in places like Iraq is absolutely terrible.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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To what ZeroDeep? To this: one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist
Typical you would would want evidences to "claims" when the same is asked of those with countering views and they have yet to provide to the contrary. Your not asking them, are you? Why? Because you agree with their views. The moment that a contray "claim" is given, you then ask for proofs to those contrary claims. Interesting, huh? And no, seldom to none will you see me quote a CNN bunk source.



My apologies, I should have elaborated, but my above post will suffice. And your claim to relativism is quite correct: ones freedom fighter is another mans terrorist; however, the level of insurgents far exceeds those of foreign fighters; there is no reason to believe that Iran, Jordan and Syria have a hand to play in this insurgency.

As for my bias on this subject, i've made it quite clear that I had none. Or did you not read that much?

Deep



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I would have shot at the tires to disable the vehicle and then ordered them to leave the vehicle.

Just like on TV, huh?


You've obviously never shot guns, have you?
LOL



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Let's take some statistics in regards to these infamous Foreign fighters:

www.usatoday.com...
www.national-socialism.us...

Deep



Let's see here, you don't want CNN, but you'll take the likes of National-Socialism?! LMAO.
Do pray tell how your 'findings' nullify all the points I have made? You contest only two: Foreign fighters/terrorist coming in from Iran and Syria.


seekerof



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Seekeroff, whose entire family was just shot dead by foreign occupyng forces? The soliders or the Iraqi girls? Who is the victim?

I see more sympathy from you for the soliders who shot this little girls family dead than for the girl herself. Something's wrong here.


No one is glad that innocent people have died. Conversely, why are the Iraqi insurgents blowing up women and children in town squares????? What kind of a lunatic straps bombs to himself and goes into a crowded marketplace and blows himself up??? Most of these bomb-killings aren't even affecting the Americans -- it is affecting the civilians.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The US forces are claiming to have a high moral ground, while the "insurgents" are fighting for freedom.

Most of the Iraqi insurgents are not even from Iraq.
They are Islamic fundamentalists who have declared that they are fighting a Holy War (Jihad?) and if they blow themselves up while attempting to kill others, then they get a free one-way ticket to heaven. That's the type of religious mentality that we're dealing with in that part of the world.


I was opposed to the United States invading Iraq, but now we're there. Like the Secretary of State said, "If we break it, then we own it." Well, now we own it. ""



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 06:09 PM
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The media tends to play in the hands of the terrorists.
They use it to give the US a bad image.
When the US has a bad image, the world barks!
When the world barks, then our soldiers have to restrain themselves.
When our soldiers restrain themselves, they are open once again to pop shots. The terrorists run and hide behind women and children. When you are trying to fight a war with an enemy that is using the innocent as barriers, then it becomes extremely complicated and touchy. Its extremely heart breaking when innocent people die. Just as heart breaking as when one of our soldiers dies trying to bring freedom in Iraq under extreme circumstances. Its part of the new war. But if we pull out, the terrorists will prevail in Iraq, and will continue simular 9/11 attacks well into the future on our country and possibly in others. Our soldiers from war and innocents from the world trade center will of died in vein, and we will be back in the same boat as before the war on terrorism. Iraq needs to be recovered, and will be if we stop wimpering and tough it out until we finish the job and bring the place to order.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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as posted by ZeroDeep
...there is no reason to believe that Iran, Jordan and Syria have a hand to play in this insurgency.

--snip--

Or did you not read that much?


Likewise ZeroDeep, still professing that there are jihadist and terrorist coming in from Iran and Syria and that neither have a hand in the Iraqi insurgency, huh? As to your skilled and learned observations: Opps. Apparently you missed reading these headlines and findings? Btw, I never said anything concerning Jordan.

Iran, Syria accused of supporting Iraqi insurgents

Saddam henchman: Iran/Syria funding resistance

Commander of Saddam Hussein's "The Army of Muhammad" Confesses: We Received Aid in Money and Arms from Syria and Iran

Why Syria Backs Iraqi Terrorists

More can definately be provided, ZeroDeep.
All indications are that your skilled observations are highly questionable.



seekerof

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 06:23 PM
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I am not even going to bother with the above myopia. The facts are, it does not matter if you accept it or not, because the evidence screams it, and I am not deaf, nor choose to be deaf, that the US forces are terrorizing, abusing and killing the Iraqi people. This is not the first time we've heard of US forces killing citizens and it certainly won't be the last.

And, the people defending the US forces, were also defending it in the earlier thread I started(right, seekerof) and were justifying genocide with redundant arguments on moral relativism and semantics. So, really, it does not matter how many Iraqis are killed by US forces, it could be a million, and you would still regurgitate the same rubbish.

Unfortunately, even at home, US police forces are doing the same, and we see the same myopia. It's almost as if the armed forces and police forces are an object of religious devotion. It's sad that due to the ignorance and blind faith of so many in our society we will have to see Nazi rule again. I am not going to waste my time by reasoning with people whose idea of evidence is what they see on CNN.

The stupidity of the average American is unsurpassed, and I don't think they realize how much piss the rest of the world takes out of them. In fact I was just watching a British stand-up comedian who was poking fun at Americans believing in anything they see on CNN, and are stupid enough to believe Al Qaida are 7 foot giants, who shoot lasers our of their teeth, if they heard it on CNN


Or more seriously, how the regular housewife thinks Afghanistan is where terrorists live. I see a lot of parallels between American society and Simpsons, and when a cartoon becomes a commentary on reality, it's really ironic!

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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Wholesale Blanket Statements Require Legit Backing

Provide to the contrary or continue with your anti-war drivel, k? Simple as that. Nothing more, nothing less.
As to your continued wholesale abuse of the English interpretive language, there is a very distinct difference between justifying genocide and denying genocide (that which I was actively doing), for which, the absurd 'genocide' claim was also haphazardly thrown around and asserted/claimed by none other than you, Indigo_Child.



seekerof

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Seekerof]



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