It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

U.S. Troops Kill Two Civilians in Iraq

page: 2
0
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 01:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Insurgents in Iraq have been setting up fake roadblocks themselves.
When he heard the gun shots, he may have thought it was insurgents.


Possible and a good point, though I also noticed that you have said somewhat the same as I have:


posted on 21-1-2005 at 06:52 AM Post Number: 1107442 (post id: 1129335) quote

There was another car bomb at a wedding party:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

When was the last day without a car bomb in Iraq?
There seems to be at least one every day.

15 killed in Baghdad mosque blast.



seekerof




posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:01 PM
link   
3 questions:

how many "checkpoints" and "border stations" are there in iraq?
how many people cross them every day?
how many photo-journalists are present there?

this only one of a thousand similar situations, that are happening over there, but we will never know about it. and in every case, the innocent people get hurt and get killed.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:08 PM
link   

as posted by Souljah
....and in every case, the innocent people get hurt and get killed.


Unconfirmed and unsustantiated Blanket Statement

Nothing more than a typical anti-war response. How so? You state "every case," without one smidging of factual verified information and/or sourcing to back this quite unfounded claim and assertion.

As to your three questions, I cannot give an accurate response without verified factual information to view on what you ask.



seekerof

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
First and foremost, If I was a solider there, I would have given the US government the two fingers and packed my bags and went home. However, in this situation, I would have shot at the tires to disable the vehicle and then ordered them to leave the vehicle.

If you were a soldier and that was your response, believe me they would have packed your bags for you.

Shooting the tires out is a load of crap, especially if they are pointed at you. A car can still manuever on flat tires, and they can still inflict harm.



What is more important here, is the victim's reaction. Let's not forget who the victim is here. It's the innocent Iraqi civillian. And as we can see, he fears the occupying forces so much, he would risk escaping from them than be caught by them. Take note.


Once again I ask, how is it attempting to escape if they continue to drive towards you?



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:26 PM
link   

You can continue to spin this to your own perception of what is taking place, but a minority does not constitute a majority who think and feel otherwise.


CNN is bad for your mental health mate. I suppose you missed the article reported in the western media recently that showed how US has lost the battle for Iraqi public support.


Despite the "distrust," the man, with his family, was approaching a military checkpoint, a routine occurance in Iraq. Just what exactly, objectively speaking here, does the drivers action indicate? When you get done explaining your anti-war viewpoint on this, how about next, objectively, as well, place yourself in the positions of these soldiers and then further explain how they interpreted this drivers actions, k?


Seekeroff, whose entire family was just shot dead by foreign occupyng forces? The soliders or the Iraqi girls? Who is the victim?

I see more sympathy from you for the soliders who shot this little girls family dead than for the girl herself. Something's wrong here.



Iraqi Body Count
Even they debunked those numbers;
IBC response to the Lancet study estimating "100,000" Iraqi deaths

Strange how that figure was debunked sometime ago, huh?
100,000 Dead--or 8,000 --How many Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the war in Iraq?

Another, perhaps?
Bogus Lancet Study


Please distinguish between debunking and denying? Some people are so starved for evidence, that anything, per say, a US solider carrying an smiling shot of an Iraqi child, is evidence that Iraqis love America


However, if you want to play the numbers game:

www.wsws.org...
www.hrw.org...

"It’s a tragedy that U.S. soldiers have killed so many civilians in Baghdad. But it’s really incredible that the U.S. military does not even count these deaths. Any time U.S. forces kill an Iraqi civilian in questionable circumstances, they should investigate the incident."

In the end it does not matter, what number it is, 10,000 25,000, 50,000 or 100,000. Life is not a number -what matter is that Iraqi civillians are being slaughtered and oppressed by US forces. We hear it everyday. It's nothing new. Heck, we've even seen evidence of shoot-to-kill issued in Fulluja for citizens that do not comply with biometric measures.

And the actions of this particular Iraqi shows, how much Iraqi people are living under fear of the forces. Why do these threads where Iraqis are killed always turn out be discussing whether the soliders were justified in doing so. Why aren't we condemning these US forces for their actions? Who is the victim here?

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:29 PM
link   
See storys like these break my heart This story was burried in one yahoo article Its a shame. I saw something else too it said some us soldiers killed a 14 year old iraqi boy and wounded i think his 14 year old sister and all they had to say for themselves was oops

Here is the link apparently they saw smoke outside a base and just opened fire killing one girl and wounding another

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Thug69]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
In the end it does not matter, what number it is, 10,000 25,000, 50,000 or 100,000. Life is not a number -what matter is that Iraqi civillians are being slaughtered and opposed by US forces.


I guess its OK when they slaughter there own people?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Who is the victim here?

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]


Who was the victim there?



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:36 PM
link   

I guess its OK when they slaughter there own people?


I'm sorry, but I thought one side is suppose to have a higher moral ground, isn't that the clap-trap that the people at home are fed?



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

I guess its OK when they slaughter there own people?


I'm sorry, but I thought one side is suppose to have a higher moral ground, isn't that the clap-trap that the people at home are fed?


You never answered my question. You are upset over 2 people getting killed by Americans, who were by the way disobeying a direct order followed daily by thousands of Iraqis putting them in a position of appearing to be a Suicide Bomber leading up to a regrettable event which could have been avoided BY THEM. The man killed his own kids.

BUT

On the other hand you have nothing to say about a Suicide Bomber taking out a wedding party in front of a Mosque. Their 15 deaths arent worth mentioning?

Interesting



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:51 PM
link   
This is a highly suspect case witch requires further enquiry unto both parties; however, It's a case which I will step away from and answer Mr. Amuks proposition instead.

Amuk, sir, you have to realize that the number of 'terrorist' attacks in Iraq have propogated to due to this mythological war on terror and purported dream to bring liberties and democracy to these people; this war has created more terror, attracted more fundamentalists to further plead thier case of Anti-American retorhic, and caused utter anarchy in once stable country regardless of the man who held the throne. Before this war on an 'innocent' country [regarding the charges laid upon them] there were never cases of such blood shed of Iraqies against Iraqies, what we see now is Insurgents trying to take back thier country from a man that has raped, pillaged, and 'supposedly' taken thier Oil has booty.

The mentality of your average Iraqi is very hard to contrive while we sit in the west. Very hard indeed.

Deep



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:52 PM
link   

You never answered my question.


Oh, but no, I did answer your question. The US forces are claiming to have a high moral ground, while the "insurgents" are fighting for freedom. I do not need to discuss the actions of the insurgents, as they are to be expected. However, if we are going to compare the US forces and Insurgents actions in the same light, then either you are conceding the US forces are no different to the insurgents, or you you fail to recognise that you are conceding that US forces are no different to the insurgents. Which one is it.

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:53 PM
link   
Deep

So how does any of that justify killing YOUR OWN people at a wedding? This is attacking the Americans how?

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Amuk]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I do not need to discuss the actions of the insurgents, as they are to be expected.


They are expected to kill their own people? At a wedding? At a Mosque?

You dont want to discuss it because it doesnt fit into your "American Nazi" agenda



[edit on 21-1-2005 by Amuk]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 02:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by Indigo_Child



You never answered my question.


OThe US forces are claiming to have a high moral ground, while the "insurgents" are fighting for freedom. I


And slaughtering innocent people at a wedding on purpose. How is that bring on freedom?



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
This is a highly suspect case witch requires further enquiry unto both parties; however, It's a case which I will step away from and answer Mr. Amuks proposition instead.

Amuk, sir, you have to realize that the number of 'terrorist' attacks in Iraq have propogated to due to this mythological war on terror and purported dream to bring liberties and democracy to these people; this war has created more terror, attracted more fundamentalists to further plead thier case of Anti-American retorhic, and caused utter anarchy in once stable country regardless of the man who held the throne. Before this war on an 'innocent' country [regarding the charges laid upon them] there were never cases of such blood shed of Iraqies against Iraqies, what we see now is Insurgents trying to take back thier country from a man that has raped, pillaged, and 'supposedly' taken thier Oil has booty.

The mentality of your average Iraqi is very hard to contrive while we sit in the west. Very hard indeed.

Deep


You nailed it zeep. The insurgents themselves are nothing more than Iraqi trying to fight for their own freedom. This is not a war, the war ended a few years ago, this is the people fighting for their country. We can see clearly how terrified the Iraqi people are from this episode alone. Otherwise, why would a family man not stop this car. In fact, is that even true, or did the soliders fabricate this part of the story.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:05 PM
link   

And slaughtering innocent people at a wedding on purpose. How is that bring on freedom?


And what does that have to do with the US soliders killing two people in front of a little girl and orphoning her? Are you derailing this topic?



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

And slaughtering innocent people at a wedding on purpose. How is that bring on freedom?


And what does that have to do with the US soldiers killing two people in front of a little girl and orphaning her? Are you derailing this topic?


Thats OK IC I really didn't expect you to answer the question. I am not derailing the topic merely asking why it is OK to you and others for the Insurgents to kill men women and children but you blubber crocodile tears at any civilian shot by mistake by the Americans.

Its OK most can see the Hypocrisy

[edit on 21-1-2005 by Amuk]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:09 PM
link   
Originally posted by Indigo_Child:

"You nailed it zeep. The insurgents themselves are nothing more than Iraqi trying to fight for their own freedom. This is not a war, the war ended a few years ago, this is the people fighting for their country. We can see clearly how terrified the Iraqi people are from this episode alone. Otherwise, why would a family man not stop this car. In fact, is that even true, or did the soliders fabricate this part of the story."

Indigo, this is a terrible event. Nothing good can come from it, no arguement there. But I am offended by your remark. How dare you ASSUME that US soldiers would rather KILL these people than not. There is not one single US soldier in Iraq right now that wants to kill people, let alone an innocent family.

Shame on you for being so cought up in anti war sentiment to forget that these soldiers are humans too and would never kill for pleasure and fabricate stories just for the opportunity to kill. Because thats what your statement suggests.

You need to take a deep breath and regather yourself Indigo. How many of those soldiers involed have kids of thier own? Or little brothers and sisters back at home? You slap me and my countrymen in the face to suggest for a second that they made this story up to justify killing people for no reason.

Pathetic remarks...

[edit on 21-1-2005 by skippytjc]

[edit on 21-1-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:11 PM
link   
I'm not sure Amuk, sir.

What we can establish is that Islam is no longer a justification nor is it a foundation of terrorism; they very fact that an Islamic holy site has been desecrated speaks volumes in regards to the motives of these people: sociopolitical; they have something to fear in the up coming elections. I hardly doubt it's the fact that they don't want 'freedom', relatively speaking, they just don't want it brought by American hands..

Suicide itself is a 'Sin' in Islam and very fact that these man are supposedly martyred (sp) and subsequently sent to heaven where they shall live in paradice with 72 virgins (Grapes actualy) is contradictory and obviously a dogmatic teaching of the Qu'ran -- these people are not 'fundamentalists', these people are fanatics whome use the Qu'ran at whim to further propogate thier own sociopolitical agenda. As do many in America with 'God' by thier side and watching over thier country in this 'crusade' of crusades.


What needs to be estabilished is 'propaganda' to level out that propogated by these Fanatacs, and perferably not by America itself, for it's propaganda is what's led to this apocryphal war. However, I'm far to younge and ignorant to understand the mechanics of how such a system would work. The Iraqi people need to feel liberty, freedoms, and democracy as we speak -- not through 500 pound bombs and constant raids on thier homes; not have thier women desecrated in prisons; not having so many innocents killed for unsubtantiated reasons. These people already feel raped the two decades Saddam was left to dictate every aspect of thier lives, not to mention be ebetted by the American government.

When you have two parties which cast universal umbrage upon the world and it's inhabitatants, how do you expect the world to react? This is a hard issue to discuss. The planning in the war was pathetic. Bush is far too naive and ignorant to wage wars; he's a failed persona.

Deep

[edit on 21-1-2005 by ZeroDeep]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 03:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
I'm not sure Amuk, sir.


Come on Deep...LOL




What we can establish is that Islam is no longer a justification nor is it a foundation of terrorism; they very fact that an Islamic holy site has been desecrated speaks volumes in regards to the motives of these people: sociopolitical; they have something to fear in the up coming elections.


Then wouldn't the answer lay in letting the elections happen, the Americans leave and taking it up from there? How does killing a wedding party in front of a Mosque help the cause of freedom? Killing Americans I could understand, but this makes no sense.




these people are not 'fundamentalists', these people are fanatics whome use the Qu'ran at whim to further propogate thier own sociopolitical agenda. As do many in America with 'God' by thier side and watching over thier country in this 'crusade' of crusades.


And both groups are nuts and the rest of us are caught in the middle. Should we suicide Bomb weddings at the Baptist church?



What needs to be estabilished is 'propaganda' to level out that propogated by these Fanatacs, and perferably not by America itself, for it's propaganda is what's led to this apocryphal war.



I agree I have said all along this problem will have to be solved by the Muslims not us.



The planning in the war was pathetic. Bush is far to naive and ignorant to wage wars; he's a failed persona.

Deep


Cant argue with you on that point either


But the bottom line is we are ALREADY there and the BEST we can hope for is getting out with the least amount of damage to us and the Iraqis



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join