Did Chinese Civilization Come From Ancient Egypt?

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: Spider879
It was Kramer cited in Marduk's link that stated Enki After fashioning the Black-headed people the God...Enki? went to Meluhha and profusely blessed it. Yes the Mountains were Black , but so was it's people
people.ucls.uchicago.edu...
Scroll down to pg 278 to see what I am talking about.

And from Marduk's recommended link

saĝgiga [HUMANKIND] (4x: Old Babylonian) wr. saĝ-gig2-ga "humankind" Akk. şalmat qaqqadi [1] cuneiform SAG.MI.GA saĝ-gig2-ga (sag-gig2-ga) + -0 (4x/100%). 3500 3000 2500 2000 1500 1000 (no date) [1] 4 1 distinct form attested; click to view forms table. 1. humankind (4x/100%) ~ Akk. şalmat qaqqadi "the black-headed ones, mankind"

psd.museum.upenn.edu....

It is not a reference for skin colour, unless you are claiming that everyone who constituted "Humanity" was black. The country was named after the black mountains at its border...
The Sumerians didn't even have a word for negro.
We have a group of "black mountains" in Wales too, are you claiming that's also a reference to skin colour ?
Meluhha is currently believed to be the Indus civilisation.

originally posted by: Spider879

And I don't know how long the term Sudan have been in use but it is translated into Black Land from Arabic a place of black ppl , this is also correlated with Ethiopia , so I don't see why even earlier ppl would be skiddish about identifying themselves or others with a particular shade.

1842
they weren't skiddish, they just didn't care about skin colour

Negro?? who said any thing about Negro, I stated explicitly that they weren't even Africans, and they didn't care about skin color but cared about hair color?? I know you can read cuneiform, although not sure of your Sumerian text but the translated version makes it clear they are talking about more than just hair color, I am equally certain that you know of the conquest boast of Sargon of Akkad ;

Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener, While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me (her) love, And for four and [ ... ] years I exercised kingship, The black-headed [people] I ruled, I gov[erned]; Mighty [moun]tains with chip-axes of bronze I con- quered, The upper ranges I scaled, The lower ranges I [trav]ersed, The sea [lan]ds three times I circled. Dilmun my [hand] cap[tured], [To] the great Der I [went up], I [. . . ], [ . . . ] I altered and [. . .]. Whatever king may come up after me, [. . .] Let him r[ule, let him govern] the black-headed [peo]ple; [Let him conquer] mighty [mountains] with chip-axe[s of bronze],

As you and I know Sargon was not Sumerian but an Akkadian Semite who none the least used the same nomenclature as the folks he had just conquered used for themselves..I am not sure why some modern folks have this visceral reaction when the term"Black" is used to describe some ancient populations ,but want to jump through hoops to explain it away.
Just treat it the same way as one would eye or hair color nothing more nothing less.
Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes. ancient or modern I say.
Bob Marley..

Dude, you don't seem capable of accepting the most basic of known facts here
are you obsessed, you think they are using "black headed" as a colloquialism for black skin, because they were incapable of saying dark skinned or black skinned. They invented the written word...
"Black headed" is an epithet for humanity. The Sumerian dictionary said that.

This is a well known fact, its not up for a discussion.

The Sumerian word for Skin is 1000 times more popular than the word for humanity, which you are quoting as important, only appears 4 times in 3500 years of recorded history. The much more common word for humanity was "awilūtu", which appears 25 x more often than the one you think is relevant

So I don't think you even have a clue what you are talking about, the less used word for humanity, was derived from "black headed" not black skinned, which they could easily have said. They were known to have black hair like the inhabitants of the land are today (their descendants). The dictionary says that saĝgiga means [HUMANKIND], right at the top

This seems to be a no brainer, that they wouldn't refer to themselves as dark skinned people, or think that of themselves when they didn't have anything but Africans and Harappans to compare themselves to.

originally posted by: Spider879I am not sure why some modern folks have this visceral reaction when the term"Black" is used to describe some ancient populations ,but want to jump through hoops to explain it away.

Well there would be two types of people making that response, the former being out and out racists and the latter the more knowledgeable than you on ancient linguistics, who are trying to get it through to your brain that you have it wrong and are actually exhibiting a form of reverse racism yourself

Like why wouldn't they just say "the dark skinned people"

originally posted by: Spider879

Well I can only defer to folks that have more knowledge than myself...

apparently, not



skin tone is pretty irrelevant to everything except arguments on the internet...

a reply to: Marduk

Dude, you don't seem capable of accepting the most basic of known facts here are you obsessed, you think they are using "black headed" as a colloquialism for black skin, because they were incapable of saying dark skinned or black skinned. They invented the written word... "Black headed" is an epithet for humanity. The Sumerian dictionary said that.

Yes it did, but for most people especially ancient ones they saw themselves as the first or more important part of humanity, thus they were the Anuannki's original creation.

THE CREATION OF THE PICKAX

The lord called up the pickax, decrees its fate, He set the kindu, the holy crown, upon his head, The head of man he placed in the mould, Before Enlil he (man?) covers his land, Upon his black-headed people he looked steadfastly. The Anunnaki who stood about him, He placed it (the pickax?) as a gift in their hands, They soothe Enlil with prayer, They give the pickax to the black-headed people to hold.

www.sacred-texts.com...
Notice he didn't pass this gift to the Martu or Elam, he gave them all the good stuff, it's not really that difficult to grasp if you trust the translations and take a non contorted approach.

If that's what you want to believe, then perhaps you could back it up with something they actually said, so far the oldest thing you've posted is Old Babylonian from around 2100BCE, written in Akkadian
The word you think is significant is also Old Babylonian and didn't exist before then. So its a bit unlikely it was ever used at all by the Sumerians when it wasn't invented until at least 500 years after their civilisation ceased to exist
The Akkadians were Semites, they had black hair too and as you admitted, saĝgiga translates directly as [HUMANKIND] and is nothing to do with skin colour, if it was they would surely have just used skin, which was available at the time and in fact was in very common usage.



lol

In case you aren't aware, the Akkadians were myth makers, they exaggerated old stories and added new fiction to them. If you ever think you can tell something for sure by a text they wrote, you are probably wrong, most of those texts were subject to a thousand years of editing for religious purposes..

Like this description of Enki's temple from ENKI BUILDS THE E-ENGURRA

Enki the Lord who decrees the fates,
Built his house of silver and lapis lazuli;
Its silver and lapis lazuli, like sparkling light,
The father fashioned fittingly in the abyss.
The creatures of bright countenances and wise, coming forth from the abyss,
Stood all about the lord Nudimmud;
The pure house he built
He ornamented it greatly with gold,
In Eridu he built the house of water-bank,
Its brickwork, word-uttering, advice-giving,
Its... like an ox roaring,
The house of Enki, the oracles uttering.

See all those claims there that his temple was built of precious metals and semi precious stones, when it was excavated, it was made of mud brick, just like every other temple in Mesopotamia. But the priests of Enki, wanted to big him up, so he had a fabulous temple made of precious metals and stone.

Your Song of the Hoe text, from Enlil's city Nippur, does the same thing for Enlil. Its a religious text, not a recorded history lesson

DNA studies prove that the Sumerians were genetically identical to Iraq's modern Marsh Arabs
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Images





Light skin, Black hair, who'd a thought it

a reply to: Marduk

Off course it's a religious text, no one said differently .
And I said if you trust the translation then that's what you have; Sumerians=Black heads=humanity
Genotype and Phenotype mixed in with national and ethnic identity need not match exactly over vast stretches of time .


The white figure is part of the mural blown-up , maybe a diplomat or on a trade mission.
A mixure of Sumerian, Elamite and Akkadian figures from back in the day.




These people are nationally Americans, ethnically Black, but culturally , linguistically , phonetically looked very different than their African ancestors who they are tied to genetically.

originally posted by: Spider879
These people are nationally Americans, ethnically Black, but culturally , linguistically , phonetically looked very different than their African ancestors who they are tied to genetically.

Meaningless, its a completely different country and situation. The Sumerians are genetically identical to the Iraqi marsh Arabs. The Sumerians were marsh Arabs, light skin, dark hair,
or are you going to ignore the genetic evidence as well

So what have you got so far
A word that didn't exist in Sumerian times and when it did during Akkad, it was barely used and a comparison with a culture which isn't even relevant.
Woohoo
What have I got
textual evidence
Linguistic evidence
Scientific evidence
Academic fact

Are you trying to suggest that the Sumerians were what, black, dark skinned, Indian, when they never mentioned it. When the language was more than capable.

It is an academic fact that the Sumerians weren't dark skinned, do I need to get out the statues with the blue eyes ?
really ?



btw, all of your examples have European ancestry, a group who have never mixed with any culture in Mesopotamia. Even your attempt at comparisons are laughably invalid, The fact is that the same people who inhabit Iraq today, inhabited Iraq then. Caucasians

For your claim to be true, you need a lost race of people, who have managed to fool genetic tests from beyond the grave, who were incompetent in using their own language to describe themselves and who then completely vanished without a trace. Leaving behind statues of themselves, with blue eyes
In any language, that's total BS, why do you persist in this utterly retarded fantasy, do you even have a point, except the one you are currently displaying "look at me ignore the evidence in a culture I know practically nothing about"

a study published in 2011 looking at the relationship between Iraq's Marsh Arabs and ancient Sumerians concluded "the modern Marsh Arabs of Iraq harbour mtDNAs and Y chromosomes that are predominantly of Middle Eastern origin. Therefore, certain cultural features of the area such as water buffalo breeding and rice farming, which were most likely introduced from the Indian sub-continent, only marginally affected the gene pool of the autochthonous people of the region. Moreover, a Middle Eastern ancestral origin of the modern population of the marshes of southern Iraq implies that, if the Marsh Arabs are descendants of the ancient Sumerians, also Sumerians were not of Indian or Southern Asian ancestryIn a 2011 study focusing on the genetics of the Maʻdān people of Iraq, researchers identified Y chromosome haplotypes shared by Marsh Arabs, Arabic speaking Iraqis, Assyrians and Mandeans "supporting a common local background."

read it and weep

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: Spider879
These people are nationally Americans, ethnically Black, but culturally , linguistically , phonetically looked very different than their African ancestors who they are tied to genetically.

Meaningless, its a completely different country and situation. The Sumerians are genetically identical to the Iraqi marsh Arabs. The Sumerians were marsh Arabs, light skin, dark hair,
or are you going to ignore the genetic evidence as well

So what have you got so far
A word that didn't exist in Sumerian times and when it did during Akkad, it was barely used and a comparison with a culture which isn't even relevant.
Woohoo
What have I got
textual evidence
Linguistic evidence
Scientific evidence
Academic fact

Are you trying to suggest that the Sumerians were what, black, dark skinned, Indian, when they never mentioned it. When the language was more than capable.

It is an academic fact that the Sumerians weren't dark skinned, do I need to get out the statues with the blue eyes ?
really ?

btw, all of your examples have European ancestry, a group who have never mixed with any culture in Mesopotamia. Even your attempt at comparisons are laughably invalid, The fact is that the same people who inhabit Iraq today, inhabited Iraq then. Caucasians

For your claim to be true, you need a lost race of people, who have managed to fool genetic tests from beyond the grave, who were incompetent in using their own language to describe themselves and who then completely vanished without a trace. Leaving behind statues of themselves, with blue eyes
In any language, that's total BS, why do you persist in this utterly retarded fantasy, do you even have a point, except the one you are currently displaying "look at me ignore the evidence in a culture I know practically nothing about"

a study published in 2011 looking at the relationship between Iraq's Marsh Arabs and ancient Sumerians concluded "the modern Marsh Arabs of Iraq harbour mtDNAs and Y chromosomes that are predominantly of Middle Eastern origin. Therefore, certain cultural features of the area such as water buffalo breeding and rice farming, which were most likely introduced from the Indian sub-continent, only marginally affected the gene pool of the autochthonous people of the region. Moreover, a Middle Eastern ancestral origin of the modern population of the marshes of southern Iraq implies that, if the Marsh Arabs are descendants of the ancient Sumerians, also Sumerians were not of Indian or Southern Asian ancestryIn a 2011 study focusing on the genetics of the Maʻdān people of Iraq, researchers identified Y chromosome haplotypes shared by Marsh Arabs, Arabic speaking Iraqis, Assyrians and Mandeans "supporting a common local background."

read it and weep

Genetics and phenotype do not always match up that was the point you want to dismiss , you said above that all these people are related, yet we know that the Sumerians were not Semites but their Akkadian over lords were, and without making a claim about what the Semitic speaking Akkadian looked like at that era, we know that Linguistically speaking they are Afroasiatic ie Semitic speaking ppl, what did the Sumerians looked like?? ..."IMO" they perhaps resembled Arab Veddoids or Australoid , ultimately where they originated??..I donno note the 2nd mural above, that there was something Black about them is ancient..allow me if you will.DISCLAIMER: the bible is not a history book nor can it be relied on as a book of genealogy, however when they were compiling all those begets they linked the Sumerians with Black ppl both inside and out side Africa proper .

And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD... And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. - Gen. 10:8-10 (KJV) (also mentioned in Micah 5:1)
Reality Kush never projected such power beyond the Levant, but an attempt was made to link the two, as did the earlier writers of the above text that sought to link Sumer and Meluhha a term in Assyrian times used for Kush.

You have based all this on the misunderstanding of a phrase
I'm done, you can carry on deluding yourself if you want

City states, close cultures. Take Akkadian and Sumerians. Did yous know that while these two cultures are about indistinguishable in all ways when it comes to langue they are not ever related.

originally posted by: Logarock
City states, close cultures. Take Akkadian and Sumerians. Did yous know that while these two cultures are about indistinguishable in all ways when it comes to langue they are not ever related.

Yes and Sargon was actually working for them he was a cup bearer to their last king which was a very high position like a prime minister , he later turned on them and supplanted them with his kin folks in high positions with in the military and government, it looked much more like a coup d'etat than a traditional conquest, they copied the cuneiform and text of their conquered.

a reply to: Spider879


Yes Sargon, lots of fancy art. But he was out a ways from the city state days.