The Immoral Argument: Illegals Improve Our Economy

a reply to: Grambler

We get these arguments here too, but the bottom line of what really is immoral is that immigrants contently plunge labor rates to ever new lows.

In addition to any other reasons the immigrants are brought into the western countries, lowering of bottom end incomes is a very definite objective.

One of the objectives of Agenda 21, is the evening out of the differences in living standards between the people (but only workers) of 2nd and 3rd countries, and the first world.

So to flood immigrants into the 1st world countries is designed to reduce the living standards of all workers, world wide, to those of the third world.

I recently heard an Australian politician say, in a speech she made, that Agenda 21 had now become Agenda 30 and under this plan the global standard, of living space for each individual, is intended to be a space equal to that of a car parking bay as one finds in a car park, not to be confused with a garage for housing a car.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Humans have migrated since before we have written words, there will never be a stop to people moving to a different part of the world, people act like they invented this illegal immigration crap, the more walls we build between each other the more people will break them down.

On the other hand humans have also always stopped others they don't know or trust to just walk into their territory. If migration is 'natural', then to me stopping it at any cost is just as 'natural'; or do you think a tribe would have just let strangers walk in and settle whilst disrupting their established way of life? We all know the answer.

a reply to: Grambler

Right o chap with the black male unemployment rate at 55% and the real unemployment rate for everyone else at about 30% this is nonsense and BS I do not know a single Mexican doing work that I or anyone else would not do. And I know a lot, my wife is Mexican . She and most of her friends have jobs in the $13 dollar range and most have 2. So they are gobbling up the paychecks like crazy. The places that effectively exploit the illegals are the Mexican owned businesses that only use illegals and pay them cash at a much lower rate. As an example Ocampos in Minneapolis and St Paul. In fact may of the workers are paying off debt that is owed to the coyotes who are known to the owners of such establishments. And another example I work all over the continental USA construction. Go to any Home depot and the latinos are lined up looking for work but they want the same dollar amount as the normal going legal rate whether they have papers or not.

a reply to: Christosterone

Or Mexicali or San Ysidro or El paso or Nogales I know these areas well

a reply to: Christosterone

Or Mexicali or San Ysidro or El paso or Nogales I know these areas well

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

The other problem with illegals sending the money they are paid under the table in wages home is this:

They use our tax supported infrastructure like schools and to a certain extent hospitals, but they are not fully paying into the system themselves. They are not legal employees so the usual taxes and fees an employer must pay not being paid and the usual rounds of employment taxes are not withheld. They then have access to the public schools and ERs for their use.

They are sending the money they take out to their country of origin, so that money isn't even put back into circulation for someone else to get taxed on.

But the money does eventually circulate back to the US through our multinational corporations. It takes time (particularly with money held offshore until they get a tax holiday on bringing it back) but we do eventually get it.

As far as ER's and schools go, they're funded by tax payers but they're not only for tax payers. If they were, we would have a large number of citizens who couldn't use them.

originally posted by: Grambler
How is an illegal sending moeny home the same as countries buying bonds?

It maintains an international demand for dollars.

Ok, the town creates there own currency. Then people go in there and take all of the currency, and the town has nothing left. No products are purchased in the town, only people working there. This town would die. The more purchases that are made in the town, the better, regardless of what the currency is.

More purchases are better, but if you create your own currency, it's not required.

As for the rest, people would work if they were not receiving money for not working. Sure the transition could be somewhat painful, but that is the fault of the businesses that took shortcuts by hiring illegals. At this rate, people will say we are never ready, and these illegals will continue to be exploited.

Not necessarily. I wouldn't. I get some help from disability and I go to college. That help allows me to have a roof over my head and food to eat. If I didn't have that I wouldn't suddenly drop out of school and work a minimum wage job to sustain myself as so many seem to insist that I should. What would happen if people didn't have an income is what happened in the depression... they would turn to crime, then they would get caught, and then they would go to prison where they have roof and shelter anyways.

You could answer this by bringing in prison labor to force those people to work... but then you've backdoored slavery. You've also pushed honest citizens our of any market you're supplying prison labor to, because they can't compete with unpaid workers, just as they can't compete with lower paid workers now.

a reply to: reldra

Problem with this is, they do not GET a better life, they continue on being exploited and the ones who cannot hack it , turn to crime and turning the country into something resembling more and more barbaric.

Time to turn things on their heads and try a Trump approach, something you just cannot believe will help.

a reply to: ketsuko

It's not trafficking. Most people PAY to actually pass illegally. It's a process, and many illegals die trying to get here. Let alone, Minutemen shooting humans and proudly protecting a country, not of their own.

How about we make this as simple as can be...so a first grader understands (no insult intended). If you commit a crime, you are a criminal and will be punished. You also are not allowed to benefit from your crime. Therefore...if the crime is entering the USA without legal permission and the benefit is staying in the USA...you are deported. Nothing else matters unless you are debating changing our laws.

Nuff said?

originally posted by: luciferslight
a reply to: ketsuko

It's not trafficking. Most people PAY to actually pass illegally. It's a process, and many illegals die trying to get here. Let alone, Minutemen shooting humans and proudly protecting a country, not of their own.

Yes, it is.

The entire activity is illegal. The people are being trafficked like a commodity. It matters not if they pay to be smuggled or are kidnapped and smuggled. Either way, they are smuggled.

And it also matters not if they paid for the experience or were forced into it, either group still faces the same risks.

I'm not sure why you think the smuggler taking advantage of his cargo by forcing them to pay him somehow makes the fact that he is smuggling them legitimate. Boy, that coyote is a stand-up guy! He never dropped any kidnapped kids off in the middle of the blazing desert ... only the ones who paid him several thousand to be abandoned.

Nevermind that either way they die of dehydration, but that coyote ... he has standards!

a reply to: ketsuko

Whatever happens to those Mexicans. Idc. Your country will suffer

originally posted by: luciferslight
a reply to: ketsuko

Whatever happens to those Mexicans. Idc. Your country will suffer

Why just Mexicans. Anyone from anywhere who comes to the US illegally does it that way or they overstay a temporary visa.