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Catholics are not Christian?

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posted on Sep, 1 2016 @ 01:33 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman


Well thats awesome for you

Thank you.




posted on Sep, 1 2016 @ 01:34 AM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Raggedyman

People like Hinn.. man they are in a category of their own, am I right?!

That TBN crowd... sheesh.



I think greed is a very good indication that an individual has no true commitment to Christ
Hinn, Meyrs, Prince and Billy Graham, not just them though, an opinion only

That TBN crowd... struth
www.letusreason.org...



posted on Sep, 1 2016 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

I would say that Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity are the true Christians and the Protestant splinter factions are just "pretenders to the throne."

Who was first?

Greeks and Romans. After the religion was de-Judaized and paganized there was no true Messianic Judaism and Pharisaism won out over all other forms of Judaism.

The second that Petrine Messianic Judaism was infected with the unification of Pauline Christianity the true Joshua/Yeshua movement was finished and has been an international virus ever since.

I blame that idiot Marcion who most likely invented Paul. I don't think that Paul ever existed but that the Anti-Semite Marcion forged the original "Pauline epistles" and the rest were forged later on.

We have nothing older than 400 AD regarding the New Testament, which makes it impossible to prove either way but we do have the "Church Fathers" and they portray a very different Paul than the bully we read about in the New Testament.

I wonder how they missed all the Apostolic slander in the "Pauline Epistles" that are pure pseudepigrapha and not at all genuine because no such person as Paul the Apostle ever walked the earth.

Read Josephus who writes about that era. He mentioned that James was murdered by a Saul the Pharisee but never mentions that he became a follower of any of the multitude of Messianic movements of the day that Josephus writes about extensively.

Of course he doesn't mention anything about Christ or Peter but we have a great amount of suppressed Petrine writings to support the existence of Peter while just a few pages of disgusting Pauline material exists and made it into canon.



posted on Sep, 1 2016 @ 06:20 PM
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Just a friendly reminder...


Please post on topic and without rancor.
Please be respectful of the religious views of others.

You are responsible for your own posts.




and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!



posted on Sep, 2 2016 @ 04:39 AM
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a reply to: Taxiarch


We have nothing older than 400 AD regarding the New Testament, which makes it impossible to prove either way but we do have the "Church Fathers" and they portray a very different Paul than the bully we read about in the New Testament.


Did you mean to say there are no complete manuscripts of the NT older than 400 AD? Because scholars and archaeology have fragments dating to the mid 1st century.



posted on Sep, 2 2016 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

I don't care about fragments and I meant exactly what I said.
Fragments aren't whole copies, they are incomplete samples at best and can do nothing except prove that a document with similar or some of the same words to the one we have existed. Maybe.

They don't supply the name, author or context and aren't reliable as fragments are much easier to fake than complete manuscripts and the dating is always a guess even with the best scientific tests.
edit on 2-9-2016 by Taxiarch because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2016 by Taxiarch because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2016 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
Cant just call yourself a christian, believe in God and be a christian....




What makes a person a Christian, is the Lord Jesus Christ's blood which is applied when they are born again.

Without this, no one will make it to Heaven.


"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins." -Colossians 1:14

Hebrews 9:22, "...without shedding of blood is no remission. (forgivness )"

“Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."
-1st Peter 1:18,19

...and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1st John 1:7).


When it comes right down to it, very few even understand what a real Christian actually IS, and that includes most so called "Christians" as well BTW.

According to scripture, words and beliefs do not make one a Christian, ones actions do...


If you love me, you will keep my commandments. ~ John 14:15


Your words mean nothing if your actions contradict them.

There are two kinds of people in the world: sayers and doers.

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

Man's definition of 'believer' is not the same as God's definition.

Dr. Percy Collett had an out of body experience when he went to heaven for 5 & 1/2 days.

One of the questions he was able to ask the Lord Jesus Christ was what happens when a person is actually born again...

Jesus answered him with this: "That is when the blood is applied".

Hell is FULL of so called 'believers'.


Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.
Placebo by Howard Pittman

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai



posted on Sep, 2 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

Plenty of people who don't worship Jesus will be in heaven and plenty who do won't.

7 billion people alive right now and you think that the only people worthy of heaven are people who worship Jesus Christ?

Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Parsees, Atheists and any other religion I can't think of have the exact percentage of a chance of making it to heaven as Christians do, who aren't the sole people eligible for the afterlife.

Thats a bad, elitist perspective, to think that the most important factor in divine judgement is believing what you believe. That only your religion is worthy of the honor no matter how many people have been killed in Christian wars you think that God is in love with Christianity?

I highly doubt it. He is probably sick to his stomach and has moved on to Islam as His new Chosen People, thats probably why he started Islam, Christianity was too corrupt and unwilling to educate itself. Until Christian Europe sacked it the Muslim world was in a Golden age of prosperity and Europe in the dark ages and you think God doesn't remember that?

Seriously though, no religion is the one true religion, they all are a little right and a little wrong (not counting cults) and the fact that God doesn't ever show up and tell us anything ever makes it a giant guess no matter what your religion is.

I think if God gave the slightest damn about religion he would show up or send some angels or something but he never has and never will.

Religions are all man made beliefs, not divine revelations. I think if God was going to start a religion he could do a better job than Christianity. I think if God wanted to inspire a book he would not put together a hack piece like the New Testament that has as it stands about 30,000 different religions all claiming to be the one true faith. A feature that is pretty much unique to so called fundamental Christianity because they can't see eye to eye and come together they have to be the one true church or not at all.
edit on 2-9-2016 by Taxiarch because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2016 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: Taxiarch
a reply to: NOTurTypical

I don't care about fragments and I meant exactly what I said.
Fragments aren't whole copies, they are incomplete samples at best and can do nothing except prove that a document with similar or some of the same words to the one we have existed. Maybe.

They don't supply the name, author or context and aren't reliable as fragments are much easier to fake than complete manuscripts and the dating is always a guess even with the best scientific tests.


Well, you did say "we have nothing older than.." and that's inaccurate. There are fragments dating to the middle of the 1st century, there are entire epistles dating to the early 2nd century. You claimed there is "nothing" before the 5th century AD, when in reality, scholars have 77 complete manuscripts that date pre-5th century AD.



posted on Sep, 2 2016 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

As far as i know we have nothing from the first century....

Where are you getting these first century fragments?

approx 150 ad is the earliest i know of, which is from John..

but there is apparently one from Mark found in an ancient mask, which i've heard nothing about really other then it exists.... dated to approx 95ad


edit on 2-9-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 04:18 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Dr. Carsten Thiedie used the latest and most advanced electron microscope and dated one of the p64 pieces to the middle of the 1st century. He determined it was either an original of Mark or the first copy of the original. There is also a fragment found in cave 7 at Qumram and it was closed in 68 AD when the Romans invaded the area.

And even if the 150 AD date is true, (this is very controversial as all new discoveries tend to be), then the comment above that there is "nothing" before 400 AD is still utterly false.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


, selfish, self-absorbed and spoiled-brat


Name calling will never get me to agree with you.

If Salvation didn't matter and that we will all get there no matter what we believe then Christ died in vain.



posted on Sep, 3 2016 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


The word "murder", incidentally, is emotively inaccurate. In Biblical terms, God is the source and owner of life. It is his property, that is the important point. Murder is defined as the act of stealing his property, without his permission. So it is not logically possible for God to be guilty of murder, any more than it is possible for a man to steal from his own orchard. It is his property, he is entitled to take it whenever he likes. In fact, in principle, he is the ultimate cause of death in general, when he takes back to himself the life he gave in the first place. As I observed in my "Death and the God of life" thread;

Remarkable indeed. Great teaching. Had never heard it explained in that manner.
Once again, thanks for your input DISRAELI------------



posted on Sep, 4 2016 @ 02:53 AM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Akragon

Dr. Carsten Thiedie used the latest and most advanced electron microscope and dated one of the p64 pieces to the middle of the 1st century. He determined it was either an original of Mark or the first copy of the original. There is also a fragment found in cave 7 at Qumram and it was closed in 68 AD when the Romans invaded the area.

And even if the 150 AD date is true, (this is very controversial as all new discoveries tend to be), then the comment above that there is "nothing" before 400 AD is still utterly false.


pardon the late reply i've been busy lately

the latest dating methods being when?

He died in 2004... and the "latest" dating on that fragment(s) is approx 200ish... give or take of course

Why do you think this "latest" find pretty much rocked the scholarly world (speaking of this "Mask" discovery of a fragment of mark)... its because we have Nothing from the first century... its as if everything was obliterated, and this fact is known across all of the NT scholarly world...

This is the earliest fragment we have from the NT



Clearly treated as "priceless" which is still dated to 125 at the very latest... a piece of john 18, written on small papyrus because its front and back like a book would be and it only covers a few verses... reminicent of Thomas and his "sayings of Jesus"

Though again this fragment from said mask might be something if we ever hear anything about it...

Don't get me wrong... "nothing above 400ad is just incorrect"

but first century??

Someone please give me the link... cause it doesn't exist

Or it does and the Vatican will never release it


edit on 4-9-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2016 @ 03:01 AM
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Did you see the catholic hitting a black guy, while allegedly praying?
You weren't really doing it right if you noticed that. People are meditating in India! You don't see them suddenly burst and punch passer-byes?
In this thread I called myself catholic... And I just remembered a story about my father starting a fist fight in church...
Ah forget it. People, right? All idiots.



posted on Sep, 4 2016 @ 03:04 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Please hit the reply button... so people know who you're talking to...




posted on Sep, 4 2016 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: Seede
I'm glad it was helpful. In the original thread, the argument was completed by the reminder that God has promised to abolish death altogether.




edit on 4-9-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2016 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: Akragon
The fragment is still at best a copy of a copy. John wrote in 93-95Ad so I bet it is more a second century copy.

I know you do not believe, I know you distrust ALL Bibles. But I assure you that if God kept his promise to preserve his words to every generation forever as stated in Ps 12:6, 7 then there is ONE Bible whole and complete with all the words of God in the current trade Language (English) available for you today.

If one denies God then he denies the existence of such a Bible. If one believes in God then he affirms there is a preserved Bible today.

After reading as many as 35 different Bibles in over 20 years, I have found only one that has all his words in English in it. I have found only one that will define every English word in it by the context, and only one that has a supernatural built in cross reference(opposed to man made ones).

But those who don't believe always claim it has errors and that no Bible is correct. Oh, Except the original. Problem there are NO, not one Original in existence.

Find the preserved Bible, believe what it says, apply what is applicable to you and hold tight to its promises.



posted on Sep, 4 2016 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

Whether or not you believe in the New Testament as a revealed prophetic book(s), the fact is that the first complete edition that matches what we have today is from around 400AD.

There is also the fact that Shepherd of Hermas is included in it or one (Sainaiticus) and has mysteriously disappeared into the Apocrypha and is basically unknown today except to people who are into what was, rather than just what is, considered scripture.

Many other books considered scripture and quoted by ante-Nicene fathers also have been demoted to Apocrypha so all in all I would say that the Christian/Catholic Church has never had a believable consistent corpus of scripture and nothing is trustworthy that comes from the camp of Roman Catholicism.

That means the New Testament is a selective, non historical and unreliable book that has absolutely no credibility as none of the authors of the Gospels ever saw any of the events that they wrote about and everything Jesus says can be found in other more ancient schools of philosophy and religion, and the Old Testament. All names given to the Gospels were given not by the authors but by assigned tradition of the Church.

Long story short the only books said to have been written in the first century are Revelation, a book based largely on the Apocalyptic writings common in Hasidic communities and dependant on the book of Daniel and that was interpolated heavily like many early "Christian" writings (Testament of the 12 Patriarchs, Ascension of Isaiah), and the so called epistles of Paul that are worthless drivel with no valuable theological content just complaints about his status and how nobody listens to him, Asia rejects him entirely and his main disciples all desert him. James and the 12 don't trust him and disagree with his anti Judaic teachings. Nothing Paul writes is believable as he is an admitted liar and murderer.

The New Testament has zero value as a historical document, I don't care how many claims you make of older fragments or entire epistles, the oldest New Testament is from around 400 AD and that says a lot more than a fragment or alleged older epistle as none of the epistles say anything important and neither does the New Testament. It's a book of straw.

You want to read something enlightening try the Gnostics, those guys were smart, so smart they had to be vanquished along with the original Jewish followers of Joshua ben Joseph who called him the True Prophet or True Teacher and did not believe he was God or born of a virgin.

Sorry, Christianity is the most absurd religion to ever be forced upon the world by a Monarch and makes absolutely no sense theologically or otherwise. Virgins don't get pregnant and the Messianic prophecies that were assigned to Jesus by early Christians have all been shown not to be Messianic and Virgin is a Septuagint mistranslation.

edit on 4-9-2016 by Taxiarch because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: Taxiarch
We do wish you would leave after being banned so many times.

Matt 47Ad
Luke 62AD
Mark 43AD
John 93-95 AD
Acts 43-68AD
Writings of Paul 48-68AD
Hebrews 42AD
James 46AD
Peter 43-65AD
1,2&3 John 93-95AD
Revelation 93-95AD




edit on 4-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)




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