Germany MAY start CONSCRIPTION?

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: seagull

I agree. All it does is force the unwilling or the incapable into a world they never wanted to be a part of in the first place. That world is for people like me. People willing to fight, to kill, and to shoulder the burden of our foreign policy right or wrong.

What you read under consription is really just 6 months training. After that you can conscribe to the bundeswehr for 10 years and get paid beforehand. But if war breaks out, those are the first ones going, the standard-conscribtors who just underwent training, can be pulled, too but not during training.

You can opt out, doing a civil year.
No one is forced to go to war.

a reply to: verschickter

Its a good idea and should be done in the US. As long as its civil service in general and get a choice of national guard, standard military, or a vatiety of useful civil service skills.

The US still has a draft registry as far as i know. I have a cousin that had to sign it in 2014

Mandatory civil service would mean that even the presidents kids would have to do it. It would mean prob generally more military families which mean more military families that vote and get upset when their kidsare sent off to ptotect oil fields

As it stands its more out of sight out of mind for the military.

a reply to: luthier

It was like this:

Either you get sorted out because of medical reasons. Depending on the grade, you were "ausgemustert" and had to serve civil service for like 9 or 12 months. You would apply at schools, hospitals, public kitchens, retirement homes and drive people around, drive the ambulance, or helping out with physical things in schools, taking time with the elderly, even playing cards with them.

On the other hand, if you were physical fit, you almost were forced to do it, if you could not come up with valid reasons (pacifist) and write a two paged letter about your views. And explain it before a jury or something.
Then you would still have to serve your civil service, because you are fit.

If you have defencies like a shorter leg (2cm is enough) you did not have to do any of it.

At the "Musterung" you were examined. You have to strip naked and cough while they fondle your balls and check your vitality. Do reaction and psychological tests, if you were deemed fit. If you lost the paper that says you already have been "mustered", you had to bite the apple and go through it all again. When I got 20, I was called for the Musterung.

I remember a "tough guy" sitting in the waiting room, observing us. Into the silence he asked "who of you needs a reason to not serve duty?".
One idiot fell for it. He then said, well, an arm is broken, very fast... Gave me the creeps this guy.

Germany had conscription in the early 1900s.

Of course, that time it didn't work out too well for the rest of us...

a reply to: PaddyInf
Now, that´s really funny. And factual wrong.

Why anyone thinks that diluting a professional service with conscripts who don't want to be there is a good idea, is beyond me.

The Bundeswehr of the 70's was a joke.
Now its one of the better respected armies in the world.

a reply to: SprocketUK
You see the results now, almost no one want´s to do it. By the way, you could also get schooled in almost any job. Just because you consribed, does not mean you have to fight with a weapon in your hands.

I share your opinion, but now, you see the result, we don´t have enough personel. The general consens is simply people are fed up with war and don´t want to participate in one. Understandable of course.

a reply to: verschickter

Yeah, it probably isn't helped by general feelings towards the political classes either.

Also, I forgot to point this out:

There is no "unrest" in germany. Ask any german member on this board, there-is-no-unrest.
The only "unrest" there is, comes from the bad apples in the refugee center, who not only terrorize in the refugee center, but also the population.

The late attacks are not unrest, they are terroristic acts against us.

a reply to: SprocketUK
And that.

I grew up in a time in germany where i normally had to do duty, for 18 months.
Once my mother called me that there arrived a letter for me, from the Kreiswehrersatzamt ( iknow you all love our simple language...), from the army, so to say. It was the conscription with the date for medical examinations. But i had better things to do, to live my life, for example. I told my mother she should send it back with a letter where she tells them that she doesn´t know where i am, that i don´t live at my parents house anymore and that we don´t have any contact. I thought i won maybe some weeks, till the next letter arrives, or something like that. But the second letter never came. And with becoming 28 years old, one was too old for conscription. So i never had to do that useless stuff.

I had one friend who had even the letters to which federal state, which platoon and which military baracks he would have been send to. After the next letter he waited for, that never arrived. They forgot him, too. For sure i had friends that didn´t have that much luck. They told me that you were locked up with 95% of complete idiots around you. People that weren´t able to lace their own boots. From towns all around germany, from the last dark corners, towns with a population of 20. That there are guys your instructors, maybe 2 years older than you, that treated you like sh*t, just because they could. Outside of the military those "heroes" would have changed to the other side of the street, meeting people like us in the dark

Almost nobody wanted to do duty.
I heard people saying: If a war breaks out, the first people i would shoot would be some people of the Bundeswehr.
It doesn´t make sense to force people to do duty, you will have an army full of low educated "soldiers" that would rather shoot themselves than the enemy. How would that look today? I bet you would see camouflaged millenials hunting for Pokemons in the woods, while they are on a military exercise. And this people should defend, protect me, in a case of emergency? Good that i know how to defend and protect myself (the street was better teacher than the Bundeswehr ever could be)

And why do "they" come up with something like this right now?
Because they, those german "hardliners", never wanted conscription to become paused. Like they ever wanted the Bundeswehr on domestic ground, as a kind of police. And now that we had our own three "terror attacks", the hardliners, falcons, security fetishists thought the people of germany were scared enough. So scared that the fear ate their brains. But that didn´t work. Even average people, that have nothing to do with conspiracy theories, say that maybe something was wrong with those attacks in germany. Because everybody who isn´t blind and deaf can see what "they" try to do in germany since the attacks, and that "they" never would have had any reason to come up with all those big brother demands, without those three fishy attacks.

They come up with things like the advice for hoarding food and water, with calls for the conscription again, with calls for the Bundeswehr on domestic ground and all that stuff, only to unsettle the people. So that the people become feared, because they now might think:
Do we have not enough soldiers? Isn´t it maybe really better to have the Bundeswehr on domestic ground, just to be sure? Bceause, when "our saviours" tell us to hoard food and water, what do they know and don´t tell us?

That´s how you unsettle people. While you tell them you don´t want to unsettle them and that they all should be aware but not panicked. So that those people will accept all the big brother tools and laws, just to be secure...

a reply to: DerBeobachter

I grew up in a time in germany where i normally had to do duty, for 18 months. Once my mother called me that there arrived a letter for me, from the Kreiswehrersatzamt ( iknow you all love our simple language...), from the army, so to say. It was the conscription with the date for medical examinations. But i had better things to do, to live my life, for example. I told my mother she should send it back with a letter where she tells them that she doesn´t know where i am, that i don´t live at my parents house anymore and that we don´t have any contact. I thought i won maybe some weeks, till the next letter arrives, or something like that. But the second letter never came. And with becoming 28 years old, one was too old for conscription. So i never had to do that useless stuff.

You are lucky the Feldjäger did not hunt you down. They mean business if they come after you.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Because the population will have a general sense of self defense and working together.

Because if everyones kids are in it people will pay a lot more attention to what the foriegn policy is.

Obviously a system of creating different units based on aptitude/desire would make sense.

With people not interested in fighting doing other jobs.

The us has a program for illegal aliens to become legal through service.

a reply to: verschickter

Forget to add, saw them "taking one for a ride" when sitting at the local bar. He did not come back from vacation so they hunted him down, and found him... As soon as we noticed them coming in, silence. We gently left the bar and backed up into the room. Not because they are assholes but they don´t give a #, they will bring you back with force. Don´t want to stand between them and the other guy. For the non-germans, Feldjägers are the internal military police. The military inside the military. They had to bust in a door for me when another idiot slammed it close and it blocked somehow. We were doing the fire detection system in the exact base that is now used for refugees.

I hoped they use some kind of explosives (it was a metal door to the room with a big safe in it) but all they did was busting it with a four man rammer. Damn it I even asked them if they will blow it off and got the comment (translated) "Is that the reason it´s blocked?". Shut up my mouth and watched them doing their work.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: SprocketUK

Because the population will have a general sense of self defense and working together.

Because if everyones kids are in it people will pay a lot more attention to what the foriegn policy is.

Obviously a system of creating different units based on aptitude/desire would make sense.

With people not interested in fighting doing other jobs.

The us has a program for illegal aliens to become legal through service.

In principle it sounds nice. In practice though...its a mess that reduces the effectiveness of the entire armed force.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I doubt it. Or israel wouldnt do it.

Basically its like saying the rotc program doesnt work because kids only do it for college.

Maybe the structuring was just not thought out or improved in Germany when there were issues.

a reply to: DerBeobachter
I think 6 months was the latest durance if I remember right. They changed it to 15 or 16 months just before my balls got fondled. So I guess you´re a little bit older than me

a reply to: verschickter

AH I see.
I didn't know there were OTHER avenues of conscription.
Brilliant.
Can you be conscripted in service to Medicine or Science?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: SprocketUK

I doubt it. Or israel wouldnt do it.

Basically its like saying the rotc program doesnt work because kids only do it for college.

Maybe the structuring was just not thought out or improved in Germany when there were issues.

Israel just doesn't have a choice, due to their population size.

Rotc and similar schemes are voluntary.

You can't begin to compare the levels of professional competence of a professional and a conscript.

a reply to: cavtrooper7
Not science, but you can help out in a hospital, see the first post* on this page
Of course you´re not going to do any real medical work. Might be you help bring the food to the rooms or prepare it. Work in the laundry section and such. If you undergo special training and have a license to drive a car, you can drive people around or even the ambulance car. The right to drive through red light

edit: it´s this one
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: verschickter

AH I see.
I didn't know there were OTHER avenues of conscription.
Brilliant.
Can you be conscripted in service to Medicine or Science?

Sort of. If you decline to do military service you are supposed to look for a place to do your civilian service at, which used to be two more months than military service.
That can be a lot of things: You can care for patients at any hospital, be on an ambulance, help disabled people or senior citizens with various things (in the latter case it is mostly eating and hygiene, although that can be the case with disabled people as well). As a rule of thumb you will have to work at a place that serves the community.

If you can't find a place to work at or don't care to look for one, you will be asigned a place to do your duty at, which more often than not will be one that others didn't want to work at.

I don't think there were any such postings that had to do with science though. Also keep in mind that the service isn't very long, as it got shortened over the years. I know people who had to serve 18 months, I myself served 13 months, and if I'm not mistaken, towards the end it was just 6 months or so.