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Help with the meaning of a lyric sentence?

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posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 08:37 AM
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Hi all, my first post in the Music sub forum.

I love The Connells. Have listened to all their albums for 15 years. There is one song called Queen of Charades, which i love, but have always wondered about the following lyric. Maybe you guys could give your opinion on what it means? I think its a gorgeous line, but would love to know what he means by it, specifically the set sail part.


She's bigger than virtue
and sadder than hope
you could set sail on the things she would say


The full lyrics


I remember who Venus held in her arms
I can call up some things she would say
but all I envision are the saddest things
tear filled eyelashes
fanning flames to ashes
in a game of charades

She's bigger than virtue
sadder than hope
you could set sail on the things she would say
but all I remember is like a tapestry
miles of inventions way before engines
in a game of charades

And do you refuse to play
I think you nearly got the better of me
do you refuse to play
I think you nearly lost one dearly
the queen of charades


Thanks all.




posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

Ok. Here are some of my short thoughts.

Venus represents the mother. The son is recalling reflective memories. The cruelty of sadness.



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Ok. Here are some of my short thoughts.

Venus represents the mother. The son is recalling reflective memories. The cruelty of sadness.


But what exactly does "you could set sail on things she would say" mean?

Is it a positive thing? A bad thing?

Thanks for your input mate



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

maybe the analogy is that you have a clear path forward if you take her words to heart.

just a guess.



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: jukejuke
a reply to: 3danimator2014

maybe the analogy is that you have a clear path forward if you take her words to heart.

just a guess.


Maybe, interesting take on it. And something to go on. Cheers dude



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014
Maybe they're calling her a wind bag?



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: 3danimator2014
Maybe they're calling her a wind bag?


Maybe. I get the feelking the song is negative anyway....so, maybe



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: 3danimator2014
Maybe they're calling her a wind bag?


un less they mean set sai in the air, then shes full of hot air...

i think this is the correct explanation to be honest..



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

When a sailor sets sail...he leaves the shore...and to be inspired by "her" words...would be enough...so great...as to push the sailor off and onto a journey (thought or action or feeling).

Even when she speaks...its wonderful enough to inspire thoughts, deeds and actions. Love does that...



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 12:27 PM
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I love the Connells too.

I think the lyrics are an extended comparison between Venus and an ambiguous female figure (lover or mother).

The Venus in question would be the Venus De Milo statue with the 'charade' referring to people through the ages imagining what Venus was doing with her arms (her arms are missing from the statue). www.smithsonianmag.com...

As to:

She's bigger than virtue
sadder than hope
you could set sail on the things she would say

Seems like the author is conflating Venus ( Roman goddess of love/ Greek = Aphrodite) with a figure from Greek mythos, Helen of Troy, who had the 'face that launched a thousand ships', whose abduction started the Trojan war. Implication being, you would go to war for her she was so beautiful.


edit on 25-8-2016 by jcrash because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

You could start your life's journey by the wisdom of her words.






posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 04:18 AM
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originally posted by: jcrash
I love the Connells too.

I think the lyrics are an extended comparison between Venus and an ambiguous female figure (lover or mother).

The Venus in question would be the Venus De Milo statue with the 'charade' referring to people through the ages imagining what Venus was doing with her arms (her arms are missing from the statue). www.smithsonianmag.com...

As to:

She's bigger than virtue
sadder than hope
you could set sail on the things she would say

Seems like the author is conflating Venus ( Roman goddess of love/ Greek = Aphrodite) with a figure from Greek mythos, Helen of Troy, who had the 'face that launched a thousand ships', whose abduction started the Trojan war. Implication being, you would go to war for her she was so beautiful.



Yes, they are fantastic. Not ground breaking music by any stretch, just really good music. I like all their albums, even the weird one has a handful of amazing songs on it .

And i love your interpretation. im still debating if the song is positive or negative, but i like your thoughts. Cheers mate



posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 04:19 AM
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originally posted by: Tarzan the apeman.
a reply to: 3danimator2014

You could start your life's journey by the wisdom of her words.





Nice. Thanks for your input mate.



posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 04:41 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

Lyrics are mainly just vocal accompaniment to music; they don't necessarily mean anything.

It's not the same as poetry.

People make that mistake.



posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

Oceans are huge and have romantic connotations of bravery and escapism...danger too. We sail on them. Her words are being compared to those idealistic concepts imo.

Virtue is one of the most prized qualities of humanity. To be 'bigger' is to be comparable to an abstract concept - it's hyperbole with a dash of pathetic fallacy.

Hope is the last thing we ever hold on to. Metaphorically the last thing to escape Pandora's box. A romantic ideal etc. Its sadness is implicit in the sense hope is something we hold in adversity.

Talk about putting a woman on a pedestal! The very first time she burped would shatter his illusions


The lyrics remind me of Adam Duritz from Counting Crows. He can really turn a phrase and romanticises the crap out of his lovers. Their all angels, sylphs, objects of perfection to be pursued and mourned in equal measure.



posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 05:41 AM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Oceans are huge and have romantic connotations of bravery and escapism...danger too. We sail on them. Her words are being compared to those idealistic concepts imo.

Virtue is one of the most prized qualities of humanity. To be 'bigger' is to be comparable to an abstract concept - it's hyperbole with a dash of pathetic fallacy.

Hope is the last thing we ever hold on to. Metaphorically the last thing to escape Pandora's box. A romantic ideal etc. Its sadness is implicit in the sense hope is something we hold in adversity.

Talk about putting a woman on a pedestal! The very first time she burped would shatter his illusions


The lyrics remind me of Adam Duritz from Counting Crows. He can really turn a phrase and romanticises the crap out of his lovers. Their all angels, sylphs, objects of perfection to be pursued and mourned in equal measure.


Haha...yes. It also reminds me of Adams lyrics.

Sadly (i say that as it never served me well, only hindered my love life....), im a hopeless romantic like Connell and Duritz . Which is why i love both their bands so much and their lyrics. For me, a line like "you could set sail on things she would say" makes me very happy. Even if i wasnt 100% sure of what he meant.

I grew up thinking love would be like adam sang about...talk about being dissapointed. I love my wife deeply, but it started off slow and without fanfare. I was duped!



posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 05:45 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

I had to ban myself from listening to the Crows. First 2-3 albums were beautiful but played havoc on my sometimes melancholic nature. Still got lots of respect for them; they were certainly musical craftsmen and excellent lyricists.


The extra live tracks on the CD singles were so good too.



posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 05:55 AM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: 3danimator2014

I had to ban myself from listening to the Crows. First 2-3 albums were beautiful but played havoc on my sometimes melancholic nature. Still got lots of respect for them; they were certainly musical craftsmen and excellent lyricists.


The extra live tracks on the CD singles were so good too.


I wish i had banned myself from listening to bands like the Crows growing up as it would have made finding a girl far easier as i wouldnt have so much of a "thoughtful" "moody" "romantic" idiot. haha

the thing about the Crows is that yes, their first three albums were insanely good. But as the years went on, Duritz started ad libing the melodies at live gigs...which made it very difficult to sing along. It was incredibly frustrating. Supremely talented lyricist but i guess he got bored of singing his songs the normal way .

The Police did the same at their "reunion" show in London a few years aso..they just were not the songs people came to listen to. My wife and i left early after looking forward to it for months. I even shouted out "now sing it properly" after Sting sang one of their top songs.



posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

Yeah I'll have that. Sting and Duritz got a bit egotistical and fell in love with their own voices. They wanted to be 'serious' musicians, serious people etc. Guys like Bob Dylan and even Springsteen have all the rep without quite getting so self-indulgent. I did like the ad-libbing of Duritz until he started killing the best parts.

In comedy terms, it was like Billy Connelly going from genius funny to a guy who loved his own voice and thought adoration was his due. Or maybe when popular actors decide they want to be serious actors and go make truly crap movies in search of Oscars.

Quick rec: Mikal Cronin's second album. Great lyrics and music, but no self-indulgence





posted on Aug, 26 2016 @ 06:18 AM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: 3danimator2014

I did like the ad-libbing of Duritz until he started killing the best parts.


Of course. Some ad libing is needed...thats why we go to live gigs. But dont totally change the bloody somgs!

Dire Straits Alchemy album shows you just how well to play live in my opinion.


Ill have a listen to Mikes album, thanks for the recommendation mate




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