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World's Most Ancient Needle (50,000 Years-Old) Discoved in Denisova Cave

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posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 10:44 AM
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Russian archaeologists digging in Denisova Cave have discovered what may very well be the most ancient needle ever found, predating the previous contender by an estimated 10,000 years.

Siberian Times - World's oldest needle found in Siberian cave that stitches together human history


The 7 centimetre (2 3/4 inch) needle was made and used by our long extinct Denisovan ancestors, a recently-discovered hominin species or subspecies. Scientists found the sewing implement - complete with a hole for thread - during the annual summer archeological dig at an Altai Mountains cave widely believed to hold the secrets of man's origins. It appears to be still useable after 50,000 years. Professor Mikhail Shunkov, head of the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography in Novosibirsk, said: 'It is the most unique find of this season, which can even be called sensational.





It was made of the bone of a large and so far unidentified bird.

Dr Maksim Kozlikin, head of the excavations at Denisova cave, said: 'The length of this needle is 7 centimetres, 6 millimetres. It is the longest needle found in Denisova cave. We have found needles before, but in 'younger' (archeological) layers.' The needle rewrites history since the previous oldest such object dates to some 40,000 years ago, according to Russian scientists. It is assumed that the newly-found needle was made by Denisovans, as it was found in the same layer where Denisovan remains were previously found.


The finds in the Denisova Cave continue to astound. What a remarkable site and how amazing is it this one cave was occupied going back 180,000 years by neaderthals, denisovans and modern humans as recently as the 18th century hermit Dionisij (Denis/Dennis) from whom the cave takes it name.




posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 10:51 AM
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That's pretty cool.

I guess that it's true about what they say--why fix it if it isn't broken. Some tool designs never need updated.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

It seems like humans are more advanced in the stone age than we thought.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

I had the same thought — really not much room for improvement in the design of the sewing needle! Also, if you want to build a needle that will stand the test of time, bone seems like an excellent choice.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 11:14 AM
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They should be able to date it, not the layers it was found in. I know, destructive to the item.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

S & F for you theantedilluvian,

Eyed needles are considered to be a hallmark of "modern human" behaviour, as modern people, we in general dont give much thought to the significance of such items, but they are essential to living in a cold climate, for making clothes.

This find makes it easier to argue that this bracelet is infact Denisovan, as it was found in the same layer.


Denisovan Jewelers



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

A needle so fine must have been used for lightweight pelts, if they only had animal pelts and not woven cloth. The clothing could have been complex, fitted, and well finished.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10



Scientists found that a hole had been drilled in part of the bracelet with such precision that it could only have been done with a high-rotation drill similar to those used today.

siberiantimes.com...

Cool.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: Kester

I was thinking the same thing--what if these people had relatively elaborate clothing and we just haven't discovered that, yet?



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: Kester

And as is usual the russians are blowing things WAY out of proportion.

Nothing more advanced than this is needed to make the hole, and humans had been drilling holes in rocks for a couple hundre thousand years by this point.




posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

You might be interested in this account.


Big Steve talks about the 'one eyed' guy who told him they'd "enjoyed the festival", and then vanished. Eerily, something very similar and strange happened to me on the dawn when Hawkwind were playing. Here goes, and this is the first time I've ever committed this to writing.

As the sun rose over the heelstone, and Hawkwind were grinding their way into the daylight, I looked around me at the folk who were stood and sat all around within the huge circle in the centre of Stonehenge. The usual array of stoners, hippes, bikers, witches and druids were my companions that morning.

But one group caught my attention. They were seven or eight young men, about my age (I was 22 at the time), and they looked very happy and excited. They werre about 15 feet away from me. They all had long and well-washed hair, (neatly trimmed,) and were clan shaven. Their clothes were soft leather jerkins over leather trousers and moccasin style knee length boots, some were in brown, some in grey, and almost all their clothes were identical. The clothes were stitched with strips of leather too, but done with twists and knots that made them look superb.

Some carried long staves, slender and decorated with plaited leather sections. The wood was polished - not varnished. Some of the guys sat on the smaller stones, which others lounged about beside them, they stood idly chatting, laughing and grinning at each other, almost as if they had got into a major cup final - for free. They pointed things out on the campsite to each other, nodding approval at the tents and banners. They were clearly elated, and really very pleased with what they saw.

I watched them for about ten minutes, marvelling at the similarity of their clothes and the wind blowing their long hair about. I imagined they were some kind of back-to-nature bikers, probably with a keen interest in advanced leathercraft...

Then I looked away for a few moments to look at the druids, and when I looked back, the group of guys had vanished. Completely. But the space where they had stood and sat, was empty - though we were all hard packed together within the stones. Other people moved to stand or sit where they had been. A few people were looking puzzled, but in that atmosphere (after a long night of psychadelic excess) I guess they just thought they were gettting some kind of flashback or something.

I personally wasn't wrecked or stoned, and was even reasonably sober.

I've never mentioned this since to anyone except my wife. But Big Steves account of meeting the 'one eyed man' brought the whole scene into focus again for me. Twenty five years on, I can still clearly see those guys in my minds' eye, and still feel their great sense of elation and deep love for the festival. I wrote reports of that years' festival for several music magazines that I was contributing to at that time, and while I was tempted to mention the incident with those guys, common sense dictated that my editors would probably scrap that section as being just too way out...

I wonder if anyone else remembers them appearing/dissapearing that cool morning? Were/are they the Guardians of the Stones? Travellers from another age or dimension? I have no idea - just a lot of conjectures and theories. But one thing is for sure - they were absolutely loving the event!
www.ukrockfestivals.com...



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: Kester

I appreciate stories like this--I don't necessarily give them much weight in being factual, but I do not throw them out with the bath water, either.

Thanks




posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: Kester



Perhaps the invention of the needle came about as a natural pick for splinters and spines? As a valuable tool in those days of few tools, a hole in it was an excellent way to secure it around the neck of the owner.

As a needle for stitching fine thread into soft leathers clothes seems a bit much when far more crude methods were certainly used for eons before and after. ETA: Yet a needle is a needle and in keeping with the supposed bracelet, that would easily relate also to manufactured clothing for ornamentation.


edit on 24-8-2016 by Aliensun because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Kester

I was thinking the same thing--what if these people had relatively elaborate clothing and we just haven't discovered that, yet?



As far as I know, the oldest item of clothing to be discovered to date are the Fort Rock Sandals which were found in the Fort Rock Cave in Oregon. They're a pair of woven rope sandals dated to somewhere around 9,300 ya. The oldest textile garment was announced earlier this year and it was a 5,000 year old dress (or rather the remnants of one) found in an Egyptian cemetery.

The problem is of course that clothing made of animals hides or plant fibers quickly biodegrades except under specific conditions.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: theantediluvian

A needle so fine must have been used for lightweight pelts, if they only had animal pelts and not woven cloth. The clothing could have been complex, fitted, and well finished.



You could sew skins from nearly all of the small to medium sized game animals with that needle,ie deer rabbits ,squirrels sheep and such. The size of the hole shows that they were either making fiber threads or using sinew(most likely).
The needle is significant because it shows they were capable of making the well fitted garments needed to survive in cold environments.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 05:20 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian
Thanks for bringing up the sandals, they might not be the oldest anymore, that might now be a pair of sandals from a rock shelter in Nevada.
For sure the oldest garments so far would be a hemp fiber cape and a bark cloth blanket found in central California, in the mid nineties. They and the associated remains were dated to 8kya. Unfortunately all of the cultural items and remains were re buried with very little study, basically none, due to the NAGRPA.
It doesn't have much to do with this thread, but relates to the Clovis related thread, but in the earliest periods, there are two basic types of native Americans in north America. One type , best represented on the west coast, wore woven fiber sandals and used woven baskets, and most importantly used woven baskets for cooking. The other type wore hide moccasins, and cooked in leather bags , these people are better represented east of the great basin, the plains to the Atlantic coast. Some of the modern Indian rivalries boil down to these two groups, like the Anasazi(sandal wearers) vs the Fremont(moccasins).



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 08:39 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

It might also have been for beadwork or stringing necklaces/bracelets.



posted on Aug, 24 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: theantediluvian

It seems like humans are more advanced in the stone age than we thought.


Not necessarily.

Imagine you are a bone carver from the 1st layer's age. You craft this beautiful needle, your magnum opus.

"My precious....." is all you can think of.

Now that the thinking gets deep, you realize you'd better bury it, lest it fall in the hands the rival bone carver a caveplot or two down from your own.

You dig deep, ensuring the strong bone will never be found.

Gasp with air as you work so hard you're breaking a sweat now digging this hole.

Your pace becomes frantic, visions of theft and murder race across your enormous, yet technologically-devoid modern mind.

You're done. It's safe. You can now rest, but not too far from.. it. You decide to keep a close eye on it, two as often as you can spare them, for if it comes to it, you'll surely kill to keep it safe.


some 40-50,000 years later...

Hey Charlie, look at this....





There's no telling if it was just buried deeper. That is a flaw.


Well, unless of course you test the BONE! Where is the talk on that or have I missed it.



Also...


Scientists found that a hole had been drilled in part of the bracelet with such precision that it could only have been done with a high-rotation drill similar to those used today.


Yeah right. Barely ANYONE carves bone anymore. By percentage of population I'd wager the number was much higher 'round then.

I bet there were many people able to make holes like that without a drill.

Are all of these drilled, too?
www.balibonecraft.com...

edit on 24-8-2016 by Tempter because: Sp

edit on 24-8-2016 by Tempter because: Sp



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 12:22 AM
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originally posted by: Tempter
There's no telling if it was just buried deeper. That is a flaw.


Actually, you CAN tell if it was an "intrusive burial of an object." We see this all the time on digs. The area around it is changed and the layers of dirt are gone (they're mixed together.)



posted on Aug, 25 2016 @ 12:35 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Awesome find!!!!

I've always been fascinated by ancient times.

Take away the Medieval background and they really were the times written of in fantasy.

Giant beasts, other species of men, superstition and "magic."

I can't help but wonder how much of our fantasy, myths and legends are nothing more than random bits of our real prehistory passed down and altered by the degradation of time.



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