Conspired Plot To Have Jesus Murdered

a reply to: intrptr

I'm glad someone else realized that the 40 of temptation was a parable and not a prophetically learned actual event.

It's impressive, not many know how to read the Bible (it's a giant parable) and it gives me hope. It's not their fault since it's been injected into their minds like an rfid chip, so I agree with you again.

a reply to: enterthestage

Right on, glad to make your acquaintance too.

Both of us see the truth, not because someone told us or we read it, but because the same source of truth about things and events is inside each of us. Lots of others, too.

Heres to the real source of discerning.

a reply to: intrptr

Originally posted by intrptr
I thought the people chose barabas to be let go and jesus executed?

Because when it comes to crimes, Barabas was convicted of murder and Jesus was convicted of being ... disliked.

As one poster pointed out Barabbas first name was Jesus, so if the crowd shouted “Jesus!” They would have released Barabbas anyway…that was there back up plan B…

But seriously, apart from the fact Jesus was outside of his home town, Jesus was not that well known…not much was written about him until mostly after his death…where as Barabbas was a well known freedom fighter and loved by the people.

It must have been pretty obvious to Pilate that the crowd would choose their hero Barabbas over some fairly unknown guy. It was pretty much a non choice…the crowd were clearly going to pick Barabbas.

This is just further evidence of the charade, and how once again they tried to lesson the blame on themselves…by making out that they left it in the hands of others…but again like I pointed out in my Op…why is Jesus even sent back to Pilate to begin with…because that’s what pretty much signed his “death warrant”…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft
I need Utnapisditim; (I am not sixty).

a reply to: Joecroft

This is just further evidence of the charade, and how once again they tried to lesson the blame on themselves…by making out that they left it in the hands of others

The State carried out the execution. So theres that.

The Temple fingered him, wanted him dead. The peoples choice wasn't a mistake, neither was the temples actions or the gubments.

But I get the circle jerk of blame thing. Who wants to take the blame for killing him?

a reply to: enterthestage

Originally posted by enterthestage
Herodias mom had Salome request the head of John the Baptist. He liked John but did it anyway. Later he thinks Christ is the risen John.

Hmmm… you mean She not He right…?

Originally posted by enterthestage
The Romans and the High Priest Ananias or Caiphas were the only ones who wanted Jesus AND James, the two most righteous men in the history of the world, dead.

Fair enough; but why release Jesus to Antipas, and why find him not guilty of anything prior to doing so…Surely if they wanted rid of him…they should have kept him around and made some kind of charge stick asap…


- JC

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Well if it aint the “Veteran of the (Human?) Specie” lol

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
And you thought I was 60.

Actually no…I just knew you were very wise in spiritual years…that’ all lol

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I need Utnapisditim; (I am not sixty).

Utnapisditim has a lot of knowledge in that head of his…not sure about his maths skills but he has knowledge of Kabballah, so should be up to scratch…

Any thoughts on Antipas ?

- JC

a reply to: DISRAELI

Originally posted by DISRAELI
An interesting theory worth serious consideration.

Thanks…It all makes perfect sense IMO…

Originally posted by DISRAELI
Just one detail;
Um, it was the Passover season, and Herod was supposed to be a Jew.

Yes, when I said in my OP that “he just so happens to be there etc…” I should have elaborated further… what I meant is that it was all well planned in advance.

Being there for the Passover was the perfect cover for Antipas…If he just happened to be in Judea for no reason or just passing through etc, then his presence there would have looked too suspicious…


- JC

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: chr0naut

Actually he was Syrian.

Edom wasn't a nation at that point.

Being Syrian which is Semitic and the destination for the lost tribes called lost sheep It's safe to say he was a Judean Semitic Israelite.

Asshur son of Jacob is the Patriarch of Assyria.

He was a legit Jew.

Regardless you can convert to Judaism legitimately it doesn't mean you're a fake Jew or the usual slanderous term Edomite.

Esau was Jacobs brother and a Semite who killed evil Nimrod and was swindled bthe admirably crafty Jacob.

And I am not bias, Jacob is my favorite character in the Bible story.

Syria is East of Lebanon and to the North East of Israel. It sits above and to the West of modern Iraq, bordering in its North with Turkey.

Edom is to the South of Israel, South West of what used to be Moab in what is now Transjordan.

As we are discussing the lineage of Herod Antipas, Edom had been a kingdom for at least 1,000 years previously and had been ruled by the Nabatean tribes (from which Herod Antipas's granfather hailed) for 200 years but had become part of the Roman block of Judea, Samaria and Idumea which stretched from the sea to Jordan river and nearly to Nazareth in the North and Beersheba (near to the bottom of the Dead Sea) in the south.

Herod the Great, Antipas's father was granted kingship of Judea by the Roman Senate in 40 BC but did not take up residence there until he could raise an army to conquer Jerusalem by force, which he did in 37 BC. Herod was not acknowledged as a Jew but as a foreign conqueror, an "Idumean" (latin and greek for "from the land of Edom").

Herod the Great's kingdom was divided up between his sons, Herod Archelaus, Herod Antipas and their half-brother Herod Philip II.

The Jew, Asshur may be patron of Assyria but we are talking about someone who hails from Edom, another nation entirely.

Also, Esau, also called Edom, was the older brother of Jacob, from whom the 12 Jewish tribes descended, but he was not included in those tribes. He was the first Edomite.

a reply to: chr0naut

I hear ya, I was just telling you who he was and he was a Syrian and a Jew. A Legitimate Jew and not an Edomite.

That's a word people use today to say Ashkenazi Jews are "the Synagogue of Satan" and doesn't apply to Herod or the Ashkenazi because it isn't a thing. Syria is Herod's nationality and Ashkenazi are Caucasian, literally Khazaria (Turkey near the Caucasus).

And they are converts but still Jews. Herod probably didn't need to officially convert because he was a descendant of Asher.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: chr0naut
Were the Edomites in general not conquered and forcibly converted during the Maccabean wars, making them technically of the Jewish religion? Herod was certainly Jewish enough to want to hear John the Baptist, even if he didn't want to listen.
I was not, of course, suggesting that Herod was a man who took Jewish commands very seriously. However, he might plausibly decide to make a Passover trip as part of his official observances.

It was actually after the Maccabeans, by John Hyrcanus @ 125 BC, when Judaism was forced upon the Edomites.

I think a modern analogy would be England's King Henry the 8th. He "put it to Rome" over the Pope's refusal to allow his divorce (among other things) and firmly established the Anglican church as independent of Rome (and was dependent upon him), but I'm pretty sure his motivation wasn't particularly devout. He was more known for his gluttony and womanising.

But, yes, Antipas could have been doing a 'state visit' during the Passover.

a reply to: Joecroft


Pass the buck and c.y.a. seems to be the preferred method of this illegal execution. I think it's (the story) saying nobody wants responsibility for it except the Sadducees, they don't mind at all and are covering themselves legally (craftily).

Pilate is feigning righteous disdain for the Sadducees but he is in on it too. He "washes his hands" of it (bloody hands Pontius!).

Herod is a total sociopath who fears Rome because he is a Syrian Jew. He thinks if he doesn't decapitate John and persecute Jesus the Romans will remove him from power. The decapitation of John who he admired was just because he wanted to keep his word. Coward!

And the priesthood just doesn't want to be taken out of power as surely Yakkov (James) was more worthy.

Never forget the final story has Roman pens all over it too.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: chr0naut

Actually he was Syrian.

Edom wasn't a nation at that point.

Being Syrian which is Semitic and the destination for the lost tribes called lost sheep It's safe to say he was a Judean Semitic Israelite.

Asshur son of Jacob is the Patriarch of Assyria.

He was a legit Jew.

Regardless you can convert to Judaism legitimately it doesn't mean you're a fake Jew or the usual slanderous term Edomite.

Esau was Jacobs brother and a Semite who killed evil Nimrod and was swindled bthe admirably crafty Jacob.

And I am not bias, Jacob is my favorite character in the Bible story.

Syria is East of Lebanon and to the North East of Israel. It sits above and to the West of modern Iraq, bordering in its North with Turkey.

Edom is to the South of Israel, South West of what used to be Moab in what is now Transjordan.

As we are discussing the lineage of Herod Antipas, Edom had been a kingdom for at least 1,000 years previously and had been ruled by the Nabatean tribes (from which Herod Antipas's granfather hailed) for 200 years but had become part of the Roman block of Judea, Samaria and Idumea which stretched from the sea to Jordan river and nearly to Nazareth in the North and Beersheba (near to the bottom of the Dead Sea) in the south.

Herod the Great, Antipas's father was granted kingship of Judea by the Roman Senate in 40 BC but did not take up residence there until he could raise an army to conquer Jerusalem by force, which he did in 37 BC. Herod was not acknowledged as a Jew but as a foreign conqueror, an "Idumean" (latin and greek for "from the land of Edom").

Herod the Great's kingdom was divided up between his sons, Herod Archelaus, Herod Antipas and their half-brother Herod Philip II.

The Jew, Asshur may be patron of Assyria but we are talking about someone who hails from Edom, another nation entirely.

I know what Edom is and that you're about to assume (even though I said I knew this in my last comment) that I need to be told who Edom is. Wow. Edom was NOT a country in the first century.

Also, Esau, also called Edom, was the older brother of Jacob, from whom the 12 Jewish tribes descended, but he was not included in those tribes. He was the first Edomite.

I see you think that I don't know who the brother of my previously stated favorite Biblical character.

Read my message next time so you don't tell me things that I just said as if you are telling me something I didn't just say.

But thanks for the Encyclopedia Edom!

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: chr0naut

Actually he was Syrian.

Edom wasn't a nation at that point.

Being Syrian which is Semitic and the destination for the lost tribes called lost sheep It's safe to say he was a Judean Semitic Israelite.

Asshur son of Jacob is the Patriarch of Assyria.

He was a legit Jew.

Regardless you can convert to Judaism legitimately it doesn't mean you're a fake Jew or the usual slanderous term Edomite.

Esau was Jacobs brother and a Semite who killed evil Nimrod and was swindled bthe admirably crafty Jacob.

See this Chro? This means I know who Edom/Esau is. I also know where Syria is, I have looked at maps. Next time don't assume I don't know about things I brought up to make it look like you are educating me. Distateful.

And I am not bias, Jacob is my favorite character in the Bible story.

See, previously mentioned favorite character.

a reply to: chr0naut

That wasn't a sarcastic thanks on the Edomite information because I actually don't know Edomite history.

Of course I will have to see if it is correct, Thanks still.

Although you are under the impression that Nazareth was a town when I know for a fact no possibility of proving it was exists and the Nazarene was supposed to be the translation not of Nazareth.

So I don't think I can trust your information but I will consider that you just didn't know that and give benefit of doubt.

I simply and purely wanted to say that Herod was as Jewish as anyone from Judah to Jesus, genetically speaking and religiously.

Not a very observant Orthodox Jew, but a Jew.

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: chr0naut

That wasn't a sarcastic thanks on the Edomite information because I actually don't know Edomite history.

Of course I will have to see if it is correct, Thanks still.

Although you are under the impression that Nazareth was a town when I know for a fact no possibility of proving it was exists and the Nazarene was supposed to be the translation not of Nazareth.

So I don't think I can trust your information but I will consider that you just didn't know that and give benefit of doubt.

Nazareth is presently a town, no doubt about it. And all the references to it in the Bible seem to just assume it is real and well known. Perhaps that is why they didn't go into any great depth to try and prove its existence.

There is also a marble fragment from a synagogue in Caesarea Maritima that mentions Nazareth and lists priests assigned there after the Bar Kokhba revolt [Avi-Yonah, M. (1962). "A List of Priestly Courses from Caesarea". Israel Exploration Journal. 12: 137–139]. It would seem unusual for them to build a town and synagogue there - in a hurry, if it didn't already exist during Jesus' youth - just to support the Christian texts.

Article in The Guardian from 2009.

www.antiquities.org.il on Nazareth site

Thanks, I'd be happy for you to look it up.

Cheerz!

a reply to: chr0naut

Just because you can produce prop pieces doesn't erase what I know. You would go to any measure to "prove" Nazareth was a place but it wasn't and I don't care who says otherwise no historically reliable evidence exists.

a reply to: chr0naut

Nazareth was made a town by Rome to retroactively agree with the final version of the New Testament and didn't exist for centuries after Christ.

There were even Nazarenes before Jesus who left plenty of reliable information and mentioned many places but never a Nazareth.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are contemporary with Christ and mention no Nazareth... and they were Notzrim/Nazarenes!!

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: enterthestage

Originally posted by enterthestage
Herodias mom had Salome request the head of John the Baptist. He liked John but did it anyway. Later he thinks Christ is the risen John.

Hmmm… you mean She not He right…?

Only if Herod is a she. He heard about Christ and thought it was John risen, last time I read it that's what it says. She may have informed him of Christ but I don't mean she, no.

Originally posted by enterthestage
The Romans and the High Priest Ananias or Caiphas were the only ones who wanted Jesus AND James, the two most righteous men in the history of the world, dead.

edit on 23-8-2016 by enterthestage because: (no reason given)

a reply to: enterthestage

Originally posted by enterthestage
Herodias mom had Salome request the head of John the Baptist. He liked John but did it anyway. Later he thinks Christ is the risen John.

Originally posted by Joecroft
Hmmm… you mean She not He right…?

Originally posted by enterthestage

Only if Herod is a she. He heard about Christ and thought it was John risen, last time I read it that's what it says. She may have informed him of Christ but I don't mean she, no.

Hmmm My bad…never heard that one before, about the Herod thing I mean…I thought you were referring to Salome in some capacity…

Originally posted by enterthestage
Pass the buck and c.y.a. seems to be the preferred method of this illegal execution. I think it's (the story) saying nobody wants responsibility for it except the Sadducees, they don't mind at all and are covering themselves legally (craftily).

Originally posted by enterthestage
Pilate is feigning righteous disdain for the Sadducees but he is in on it too. He "washes his hands" of it (bloody hands Pontius!).

Yes, I believe Pilate was in on it too. Just how much though I’m not sure of. You see I think it’s possible, if the way the story played out in the NT is actually factual or at least partly factual, then Pilate maybe becomes involved only after Jesus is sent to Herod Antipas; that‘s when they become friends etc...and hatch the plan…

Originally posted by enterthestage
Herod is a total sociopath who fears Rome because he is a Syrian Jew. He thinks if he doesn't decapitate John and persecute Jesus the Romans will remove him from power. The decapitation of John who he admired was just because he wanted to keep his word. Coward!

Yes there is the whole “you must keep your subjects under control or else” perspective.

You seem very wise…but why do you say Herod admired John…? What religious perspective do you hail from…?

People can often admire the craftiness of an individual from a certain perspective but that doesn’t necessarily mean they agree with there actions etc…

Originally posted by enterthestage
Never forget the final story has Roman pens all over it too.

Absolutely; And I haven’t forgotten the conglomerate consisting of Jews (Pharisees and Sadducees) and Romans which not only killed Jesus, but helped put the NT writings of Jesus together…


- JC