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advice needed. Clonazepam substitution for epilepsy

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posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 04:50 PM
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Hi,
there is a supply shortage of Clonazepam in my area. They have a problem in Poland so they bought up our stocks. My brother is suffering fourth seizure in two days from this withdrawal even with his usual benzos (Gabanox, Timonil) and a new one (Oxazepam) which obviously sucks as a substitute. Well he's now at the hospital but I'm afraid they'll just give him Diazepam and send him home tomorrow like they did yesterday. I'd like to know what is the most similar drug to this Clonazepam/Klonopin.
If you are familiar with the subject please leave me an advice so that I can read it tomorrow. I've got a headache from googling this for hours and I'll need some sleep.
Btw I'm rather a herbalist. If you asked me I'd tell you to try to sedate such a person with with a strong Valerian/Gotu-Kola tea, B-complex for methylation of excessive neurotransmitters, a green Tea (L-theanine is usefull in benzo withdrawal. It helps the brain to create its own Gaba) and Magnesium.
However until monday the only herbs I have at hand are these: a little bit of Mistletoe, some Calamus root, Hops, Camomile, ethanolic extract of Skullcap, and some Cannabis. However I'm too afraid to use a large enough dose of these because of possible interactions. Especially Cannabis.
I was wrong before with St. Johns Wort interaction.
I only gave him what he had before - Mg and Hops/Lemon Balm/green Tea without a desired effect. Well he fell asleep and still looked ok after some 6 hours but when he went for a walk he ended up again in a hospital. Such a weak tea is nothing compared to one pill but I'm hesitant to do more. It is actually a life threatening condition you know. I have lost self-confidence.
Ok, that's it. Give me a hint if you can.




posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 05:51 PM
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Hi there! Can you ask the doctor for Divalproex sodium? That's the medication my husband takes and it works well for him he hasn't had any side effects from it. One time when he had run out of pills and had no more refills left the pharmacist gave him ten or so pills to last him until he saw the doctor maybe you could try something like that? Hope you get it sorted out I know how hard it can be watching someone you love struggle with this illness. I know plenty of people who use Cannabis as a way of controlling their seizures and it does work for them.



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 05:56 PM
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a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

I'm not a doctor.

But both Phenazepam and Xanax are both worthy substitutes, however both have addictive potential as you may be aware.
Lamictal has shown long term success with daily use.
Yet, cannabis is very effective. If you can decipher any drug interaction that may be a factor, cannabinoid oil is very effective and safe.

Good luck! Hope that helps



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 06:17 PM
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Taking legal or medical advice from an online forum is dangerous. What if these people are wrong?



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler
Taking legal or medical advice from an online forum is dangerous. What if these people are wrong?


I have experience treating epilepsy, however every patient is different and you should always speak to a doctor as well.
My impression was that the OP was looking for ideas to suggest.



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: AgarthaSeed

originally posted by: schuyler
Taking legal or medical advice from an online forum is dangerous. What if these people are wrong?


I have experience treating epilepsy, however every patient is different and you should always speak to a doctor as well.
My impression was that the OP was looking for ideas to suggest.


You may have experience, but is your knowledge equal to that of a trained medical professional? Are you claiming to be competent here including knowledge of all the contraindications? How about the interaction of other drugs this person is taking? Have you taken a complete medical history so you are aware of this possibility? And what about liability here? If you are not a doctor, yet you offer medical advice, you are practicing medicine without a license, which, as far as I know, is illegal nearly everywhere.

And as far as the person soliciting ideas and suggestions, are you willing to take the advice of a stranger online and take the consequences if you give yourself or the person you are seeking advice for the wrong stuff? This whole thing is a can of worms. ATS is a stupid place to seek medical advice.



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 08:33 PM
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Have you considered cannabis?



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

The preferred benzodiazepine second to Clonazepam is Lorazepam for seizures. Also called Ativan. Other benzos are typically ineffective once activity has started. And the Ativan should be administered as a loading dose first either IV push or IM injection under observation by trained medical staff.

Be very careful of giving herbs for seizures. It is not wise to guess...seizures can result in permanent brain damage and should only be treated by a licensed physician.



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

There are different meds for different types of seizures.
You really need to consult A Doctor Neurologist, to find out the type an cause of the seizures.

My wife has suffered seizures for over 20 years, and has used various meds, but was never prescribed any of the meds you listed.

She is currently on KEPPRA.

Keppra (levetiracetam) is an anti-epileptic drug, also called an anticonvulsant. Keppra is used to treat partial onset seizures in adults and children.

Lamictal (lamotrigine) is an anti-epileptic medication, also called an anticonvulsant. Lamictal is used either alone or in combination with other medications to treat epileptic seizures in adults and children. Lamotrigine is also used to delay mood episodes in adults with bipolar disorder (manic depression)

Tegretol (carbamazepine) is an anticonvulsant. It works by decreasing nerve impulses that cause seizures and pain. Tegretol is used to treat certain types of seizures (partial, tonic-clonic, mixed).

Dilantin (phenytoin) is an anti-epileptic drug, also called an anticonvulsant. It works by slowing down impulses in the brain that cause seizures. Dilantin is used to control seizures. Phenytoin does not treat all types of seizures



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 01:05 AM
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I'd like to thank all of you
a reply to: schuyler

I'm aware of what you are saying. Absolutely. What I'm trying to accomplish here is to get an idea of what is the most similar drug. This information can be helpful at some point. He can ask for the right stuff his neurologist.
Btw...these frankenpills are far from being a cure of anything. Clonazepam? They are not really sure how it works. It just somehow decreases brain's electrical activity so they load it into the patients from 1975 with a simple rule - no seizures good, seizures bad. However it's highly addictive. The brain gets used to it quickly and demands it to stay in homeostasis level. Now they allowed to lose their stocks. Oops, sorry, try another... the withdrawal is one of the worst out there even without epilepsy. 14 days of brain in fire. 90 days to get back to normal. Oxazepam is some kind of heroine derivate. They apply the same rule to all kinds of diseases. Some of the 1st generation antipsychotics were found by accident but as long as it worked somehow they used it to this day.
If you asked me what is the cure I'd tell you it's probably some of the poisonous herbs like Belladona, Cicuta etc. Mistletoe is said to be the cure. Neurofeedback.
FYI This epilepsy developed long after a head injury after a period of alcohol abuse. Not right after it. If I had the knowledge I have today it would't get to this point of addictions and withdrawals. These people are just rising doses once they feel the same as before and get a seizure again.

Cannabis is an interresting plant you know. It works on homeostasis rather than selective inhibition. Picture me an authority in this field. You have seen a child profiting from a pure CBD strain but you don't know that others got the worst seizures from the same strain and needed another ratio of thc/cbd. It can give you the oppposite of typical thc effects like over-assertivity, anger, lack of empathy and compassion. However I've bred numerous strains and ratios during the years. Pure Cbd lines from hemp were the worst. I believe I have couple of very effective brain erasers from my anti-psychotic research. It knocks me out for months everytime I test it on myself. I had a 1:1 once - perfect in theory and it made him worse. It could be the Paracetamol too. Who knows? I don't. However it made me a worse person too. Now I'm keeping my stock just for case and for non-brain related illnesses. Cancer? Pain? No problem. Brain? Have a Chamomile tea. I'm a coward afraid of karma and responsibility.
Lorazepam sounds similar to what he is getting now - Diazepam so I hope he can make it untill monday with this one



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 02:04 AM
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Everything has some side effect but look what I found about Klonopin:
America’s Most Dangerous Pill?

Definitely worth reading to get a picture. I'm actually looking for this # on a black market now. It's ridiculous but not laughable.
edit on 21/8/2016 by PapagiorgioCZ because: nothing to see here



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 02:48 AM
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Okay folks, they've told me right now that they have the drug again. It seems we can return to business as usual.
Thank you for your time. Now back to SNAFU I may be able to change but I can't in reality. The window of opportunity is closed. It was uncertain and horrible window anyway.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler
Taking legal or medical advice from an online forum is dangerous. What if these people are wrong?

We have that covered here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 23 2016 @ 08:31 AM
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It is not necessary to show this alibism everytime. I've got it covered more than enough.
Maybe I've told too much but the info I put there, someone could benefit from it in the future.
The situation in Poland has to be terrible.



posted on Aug, 23 2016 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

Morning

So obviously we all know that the advice here is just that

I work as a clinical therapist and was a paramedic, and we have to study a heap of psychopharmacology.

So here's the issue....you should never remove an anti-seizure medication quickly without a supportive medication underneath it. The nice thing is, there are other medications that can be used to avoid, cope, or beat a seizure. Of course, the neurologist or PCP will know best what type of seizures he has and how best to treat. Coming down from a benzo is serious business. As much as I believe in live and let live, I would not recommend working with something like an alternative medicine for a serious neurological issue.

With that said, other compounds are available that are not benzo's. Tegretol fits into the anticonvulsant class. Zelbamate is a separate class of anti-sz meds. Lamictal and Trileptal are effective. Topamax is an anti-migraine that has effect on seizures. These days, another good option is Depakota (valproic acid) which has sometimes lesser side effects. I'd be careful about barbiturates as they are heavily addicting.

Definitely a lot of options out there. Just be careful with trying to cut and run with homeopathic remedies for this




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