A challenge for the brave

a reply to: Woodcarver

If you're not going to participate please quit derailing the thread. I have not abandon any of my recent threads, and FYI some of us have jobs and lives I am not going to maintain threads for years. Weeks months maybe but jeez your being ridiculous because the only thing you know how to do is reject other peoples ideas.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: rockintitz

All ideas and truths are based on some form of faith.

Hmm not so sure about that. How are you defining truths? Are they actual truths or do you mean something thought to be true?

Can't one know of their own existence? Cogito Ergo Sum.

Truth is relative. You see it here everyday.

I can argue that I do exist, and most will agree that I do. But there will always be that one person that disagrees. To them I do not exist.

Obviously one is right, and one is wrong. But there will never be a universally accepted truth.

Here is something that I got off of ATS™ many moons ago and it answers this question; the query about Ford™ vs. Chevy™ I don't know who the author is so if it looks familiar or You know the author please advise so I can add their so as they would receive the credit for such a fine comment.. This came out right about the same time as wehn ISIS was forming and it wasn't clear on the name the reported terroristic faction was using.. ISIS/ISIL/Foe-de-jour I mention this because the piece mentions ISIS.

Worship equals War Ship.

It is disguised as "worship" but it is truly 'War Ship' The men who build languages for the "Masses" to think in are very versed in metaphysical natures. When You pray to something that You do not know is truly there, You join the War Ship. You worship something You don't know of and cannot see, You divide Yourself from Your/Self and everyone around You. In English We call this "Blind Faith" Now when You have many factions worshipping to different names that these Men have made (man made) this causes 'division, the opposite of WHOLE'.
Now You clash with those who pray to the SAME CONCEPT but under different names. (God(s) have no identity, just some names that Man has made for them..) This is 'inferior mentality' Even though they are all human, all came from the same source, all are 5-based beings (pentagram geometry)
One becomes concrete in what they worship, they judge and demonize those that are NOT praying to the same Named God. Now You have war/division.
ISIS is defending it's concepts because the ONLY power those who join the War Ship have is physical chaos to those who oppose. Internally their people are weak and not worthy to ascend to their internal abilities/potentials.
STOP worshipping and start accepting ALL, no matter the name they worship and if Your "Truth" needs to be pushed then how 'true' is it really?
Truth needs no rule book, no doctrine, no dogma, no hierarchy, nobody selling it to others. Truth stands on it's own and the rest is just pushing to compete with the Truth and that is 'falsehood'...

It doesn't matter what We believe or think but what You believe and what You do to uphold those thoughts/beliefs...

namaste

a reply to: rockintitz

Truth is relative. You see it here everyday.

I can argue that I do exist, and most will agree that I do. But there will always be that one person that disagrees. To them I do not exist.

What do you mean by Truth is relative? You seem to simply mean that people can disagree about what is true, or do you mean that the nature of Truth itself is relative?

Obviously one is right, and one is wrong. But there will never be a universally accepted truth.

So if people can disagree about what is true, but one is right and one is wrong doesn't that mean the nature of truth is that it is objective? For example, I could say 2+2 =5 and you could say 2+2 = 4, our disagreement does not entail the the answer to the question, "What is two plus two," is relative. Can you clarify your position please?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Well if you divide an apple (God) and cut it into smaller pieces you get more apples (demigods) or humans.

We are omnipotent, we just lost our powers from technology. I think that's what causes the downfall of man. Technology.
I dont mean modern technology, i mean ancient technology that made us, lose our brain power over simple matters of life.

I think there is a divine group of beings who understand on a higher level what it means to follow the golden rule and be your brothers keeper. I do believe if you do the right things sooner or later you will meet one or more of those beings. I think these beings are looking at the fruits and what you want to manifest instead of what group you say you belong to. I think Yeshua was teaching this but Paul changed the teaching.

I think telepathy is real and that some people who are religious are afraid of real spiritual experience calling everything they cannot handle demonic. Their view/faith of the spiritual realm is more important than getting a real spiritual connection with something more.

I do believe in the anointment and that the bible used in a certain way will give instructions that most souls will not know since they do not have the knowledge to decipher the instructions.

I think Paul is a false prophet and should not be listened to.

I think the bible is filled with some wise ideas and insight into how a being can handle living in an imperfect world that have not found the golden path yet. Just because some ideas in the bible are illogical do not mean all ideas are. In a way it is a way to test your awareness if you can spot what are the wise ideas and what is the bullsh*t.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
This site has quite a few people on here who believe that Christianity is just the most illogical thing in the world, and they just cannot fathom how someone could believe it to be rational.

A 2000 (or earlier) year old dying godman myth with a ressurection is far from unique to Christ. That makes it equally likely that Horus is God or Osiris and Isis. The likelihood is equal, one is popular and one isn't and Christ is newer.

I don't wonder why they believe it, I know why.

To these people I pose a Challenge. Come and show that the way you view the world is coherent. Show us the world view of those who are truly "rational".

I'll do you one better. I view the world coherently. Coherent is my world view.

I am not asking for you to come and show that you do not like the evidence given for Christianity. I am asking for you to come and give evidence for your own beliefs. Rejecting the evidence of Christianity is not evidence for your position. I am NOT asking you to simply state what you believe. I want you to try and convince me with logic and evidence. Each person that comes that wishes to have a conversation I will sit and listen though I am going to have many questions.


In your first comment please explain where you think a person should start when it comes to finding truth, what is ground zero for acquiring knowledge?

Instinct. And don't trust the church. Read EVERYTHING that is ancient and relevant to EVERY faith and religion before you decide. Don't sell your soul to one or any church.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I believe your born and you die. There is no reward, no punishment, no paradise, no hell. Your born, you die, and you return to the universe;

Whether you return to the universe figuratively or literally I don't know and I don't care. Ill find out when I am dead, If there is no afterlife Ill be too dead to care.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

What do you mean by Truth is relative?

My truth is different than yours, and your truth is different than theirs.

So if people can disagree about what is true, but one is right and one is wrong doesn't that mean the nature of truth is that it is objective? For example, I could say 2+2 =5 and you could say 2+2 = 4, our disagreement does not entail the the answer to the question, "What is two plus two," is relative. Can you clarify your position please?

You can argue for eons and never come to a conclusion. Your truth belongs to you and you only.

First, I find it absurd that you would ask everyone else to do what you are either unwilling or more likely unable to do yourself. So where is YOUR proof of your position?

Now, I will address your question.

Ground Zero For Acquiring Knowledge ~ Knowing that you know nothing. One must first get beyond themselves and the preconceptions (what they were told is right all of their lives).

To help you understand my beliefs I will tell you an allegorical story:

There once was a great emperor in the mightiest kingdom of the world. He wanted to understand the wisdom of the greatest minds throughout his land, so he sent for the 5 wisest men in the kingdom. Each of the men he sent for were old, wizened, and blind. The emperor happened to be in possession of the first elephant to reach his kingdom so he asked the 5 wise men to describe to him what an elephant was. Here are the descriptions the wise men gave:

The first wise man touched the leg of the elephant and described a sturdy tree.
The second wise man grabbed the tail of the elephant and described a fine rope.
The third wise man grabbed the ear of the elephant and described a great fan.
The fourth wise man grabbed a tusk of the elephant and described a dangerous weapon.
The fifth wise man touched the trunk of the elephant and described a flexible pole.

The Emperor looked at the elephant as he listened to each of the wise men and had them each executed in turn for not accurately describing the creature to him.

This tale has been told many times and in many ways throughout the centuries. But the meaning never changes. People with different viewpoints see things differently, and inevitably people tend to argue with those whom disagree.

That being said, my beliefs are much like the story. I believe that ALL religions are wrong, and I believe that ALL religions are correct. The fact is that each of the religions only have a very small piece of the overall puzzle or complete knowledge base. Therefore in order to truly understand, one must piece together all the information available.

The proof in this is the religions themselves, for as much as they disagree with one another and appear different on the surface, underneath they are all much the same thing. That is as long as one has an open heart and is willing to accept that they do not know everything and have a monopoly on wisdom.

For each of these religions were at one point or another started by a man (or at the least interpreted by a man) and turned into a religion based on said man's viewpoint.

We are all different, and yet we are all the same.

Who is "the brave"???

This is ridiculous. Is someone else coaching you on how to be totally (and deliberately) obtuse, and to troll and deny everything that people present to you?

You already have a thread going.
If you want to bail, then bail on that thread. You don't actually think that starting another similar thread is going to divert away from your posts, do you????


I'm brave. I challenge you to admit that you and others are more intent on simply ignoring and denying and insulting everyone who doesn't think the way that you do, regardless of how improbable and impertinent your premise is.

We don't feel sorry for you. We don't care if you think we're going to hell.

You are wrong, and you are making things worse. So - you and whoever need to be summarily ignored.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

OMG. Dude. Do your own damn research. Just trouble yourself to do a search right here on ATS for the very same "challenge."

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: aethertek

Tend to your own garden & stop mucking about in your neighbors yard. 

Ohhh, the irony of that statement.

Nice bill maher talking points btw. OP asked a question though.
-----------------------
I'll answer, ground zero for acquiring truth is questioning everything, and accepting that some things can never be answered.

Either they can never be answered or they will never be answered in my lifetime because we simply don't possess the knowledge and ability to answer them now. Maybe someday we will, but again, that takes faith to believe that we will know it all someday.

a reply to: ketsuko

Then you need to proclaim that you are an AGNOSTIC.

Because you are correct, you don't know, and you can not know.

So stop with the judgment and proselytizing and condemnation and insistence that "Jesus is coming back", and meanwhile pissing about that you don't have to do jack squat for your fellow humans......
and if anyone tries to tell you you must, you will spit in their faces.

"The least you did for one of these, you did also to me. I never knew you."

a reply to: Fahrenheit

It doesn't take bravery to understand that god gave you a brain to think with, modern religion is mind slavery admit it.


You're afraid of not being worthy and going to hell, news flash a god of love doesn't torture people for eternity for even one sin.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
This site has quite a few people on here who believe that Christianity is just the most illogical thing in the world, and they just cannot fathom how someone could believe it to be rational.

To these people I pose a Challenge. Come and show that the way you view the world is coherent. Show us the world view of those who are truly "rational".

I am not asking for you to come and show that you do not like the evidence given for Christianity. I am asking for you to come and give evidence for your own beliefs. Rejecting the evidence of Christianity is not evidence for your position. I am NOT asking you to simply state what you believe. I want you to try and convince me with logic and evidence. Each person that comes that wishes to have a conversation I will sit and listen though I am going to have many questions.


In your first comment please explain where you think a person should start when it comes to finding truth, what is ground zero for acquiring knowledge?

The scientific method. Also let's not pretend that this is not just another performance by proxy post. These threads where you try to make creationism look good by making the evolution or science look foolish are getting a little dull.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I am beginning to wonder if anyone actually took my OP seriously.

That would be "no."

Though this is what I predicted for this thread.

Well, of course you did! You set it up that way (and you should thank RaggedyMan for teaching you how!)

It may go on for 50 pages

Jesus, let's hope not!!!

and I'll get maybe two people who actually try and show their beliefs to be true.

Your beliefs are not true. That's what people will try and show you. That you actually are wrong.
Our beliefs are based in reason, science, critical thinking, logic, and common sense.

YOUR BELIEFS are nonsense. And your approach to this subject is old, worn out, tired, and boring.
You are mistaken. Everyone with an education and a brain who is free of early brainwashing or sensational interpretation of otherwise mundane but unusual events (like believing "Jesus's face was on my toast") knows that you are

A) wrong

and

B) never going to admit it

because

C) that's what trolls do.

I challenge you to deny that. Line by line. Show us how you are not just trolling and Bible-thumping with no regard for intelligent thought or discussion. And how you are not just fishing for trouble so you can pretend that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot.

Because - you are doing those things.

Oh, and P.S.:



That ^^ is what you are doing. And it's retarded. Literally, retarded thinking.

a reply to: rockintitz

Truth is relative. You see it here everyday.

No, truth isn't relative. There is an actually fallacy for people who claim it is, the "relativist fallacy".

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I am beginning to wonder if anyone actually took my OP seriously.

That would be "no."

Though this is what I predicted for this thread.

Well, of course you did! You set it up that way (and you should thank RaggedyMan for teaching you how!)

It may go on for 50 pages

Jesus, let's hope not!!!

and I'll get maybe two people who actually try and show their beliefs to be true.

Your beliefs are not true. That's what people will try and show you. That you actually are wrong.
Our beliefs are based in reason, science, critical thinking, logic, and common sense.

YOUR BELIEFS are nonsense. And your approach to this subject is old, worn out, tired, and boring.
You are mistaken. Everyone with an education and a brain who is free of early brainwashing or sensational interpretation of otherwise mundane but unusual events (like believing "Jesus's face was on my toast") knows that you are

A) wrong

and

B) never going to admit it

because

C) that's what trolls do.

I challenge you to deny that. Line by line. Show us how you are not just trolling and Bible-thumping with no regard for intelligent thought or discussion. And how you are not just fishing for trouble so you can pretend that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot.

Because - you are doing those things.

Oh, and P.S.:

That ^^ is what you are doing. And it's retarded. Literally, retarded thinking.

I agree with all of this post.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: rockintitz

Truth is relative. You see it here everyday.

No, truth isn't relative. There is an actually fallacy for people who claim it is, the "relativist fallacy".

K. Give me a universal truth.