1987 years failure of Christianity to build God's kingdom. Jesus' teaching recorded correctly?

originally posted by: ReAppollonius

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: ReAppollonius

originally posted by: Ove38
The kingdom of God on earth is God's rule on earth. It's not a particular place, only a administration. God's will being done on earth ! That's all.

If you say so.

But...earth IS a place and so is God's Kingdom. You seem focused on the acceptance of the tyranny of Yahweh than the actual Kingdom of God as Christ explains it.

A Kingdom by definition is more than a set of tyrannical rules or Rule. Kingdoms are vast hierarchies with rulers and sub rulers....

No, its not a place ! Jesus Christ and his co-rulers, hold the administration of God, that is the kingdom of God, its not a place ! The rule is not tyrannical, but kind, compassionate and full of love.

If it is not a place you can't go to it so if you are somewhere (everywhere) than you can't be at "not a place" which deprives the Kingdom of God of its meaning in the form of a location.

If the Kingdom is not a place it can't be here or there, within or without. But Jesus does say that the Kingdom of God is within and without and without is a place. The Kingdom of God is everywhere and nowhere isn't the Kingdom of God.

You reduce the Kingdom to a set of rules or even feelings which is not its ordained purpose. You are in the Kingdom of God right now and will be when you get to Heaven as on earth.

Who said anything about "a set of rules or feelings" The Kingdom of God is just a form of rule, that you can participate in, like Jesus Christ did. Its not a place.

When Jesus was standing in the midst of the crowd. The kingdom of God (that is the rule of God) was in their midst (among them)

originally posted by: ReAppollonius
a reply to: Raggedyman

That was just one thing I have always been curious about, that and the two deaths of Judas Iscariot.

What two deaths of Judas? He died once, he hung himself on a cliff.

originally posted by: ReAppollonius
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


You could factually state for certain that the Kingdom of God is the soul of Jesus teachings and his most important mission, you only need to listen to his words because he says it.


Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done
On earth as it is in Heaven.

On earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN according to the Will of God.

If you need a higher authority you may be out of luck as it is His Will that it be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Pretty conclusive I would say.

Yes, Jesus clearly says the Kingdom of God must come, it is still not fully come, (the spiritual interpretation thus remains only part of it), and he never said we must sit and wait until he comes again.

Sadly, the experience in history of Christendom shows sometimes the opposite of kingdom of God, sometimes lack of desire and indifference to move a finger, and in very rare instances, holy people who indeed showed with their lives they are fuly committed to the teaching of Jesus and the Bible words of God. When they appeared to be kings and bishops, they were usually canonized as saints. No one counted the common people though. The historical failure of the kingdom building doesn't negate the prayers and works of billions common people who believed sincerely and loved.

The question is not that, the question is where we are going from now on, in an environment where the earth our common spaceship is endangered, and Jesus is nowhere near around the cloud. We must face it, or we will die and put an end of Christianity with us as well. I don't believe that will happen, but I say it as logical consequence of the fanatical refusal to face the reality. Sure there are enough people with common sense who would choose the salvation.

a reply to: ReAppollonius

"Yes I do (see that) definitely although I do eat a steak occasionally but pretty much a once a month ritual. I eat only cage free farm fresh eggs too because it's cruel and disgusting how they handle living feeling beings under those conditions and I should even give up that steak. All farm animals are basically tortured and slaughtered for profits. "
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Yes, and Jesus said, "blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy". I find it sad that most fundamental believers can exclude animals from that "merciful" teaching of Jesus.
I also agree with you about the gospel (or good news) that Jesus taught. He definitely taught on the Kingdom of Heaven...NOT "Christ crucified", which is what Saul, aka. Paul taught. Paul hijacked the true message of the gospel of the Kingdom (and the teachings of Jesus)...and turned into "his gospel" (which he proudly parroted constantly).
Therein is ALL the divisions and constant bickering among "the saints".

a reply to: 2012newstart

You hold on to the opinion that you have only because you base it off of the limited education you have on the subject. First off, the moment you rely on your own interpretation of history, you've already deceived yourself because interpretation is simply the fomation of an opinion or belief in the absence of substantial or credible evidence.

Secondly, the teaching you receive in the new testament is nearly a fraction of the entirety of christian doctrines that exist from the same time as, and some earlier than, the original "gospel."

I say original gospel hesitantly because there was never an original gospel written down due to the original teachings of christ being purely an oral tradition for at least the first 20 years after his death. The gospel(s) that you received are copies of copies, of copies of orally handed down tradition from a tribe of people who had a 90%+ illiteracy rate during an age of great upheavals, war, poverty, and anarchy.

Now I will pose a question for you to ask yourself; Are you really in search for truth or are you in search for self-gratification? Because in honesty if you think that the new testament is the only source for the teachings of christ you have severely undermined yourself.

Didn't Jesus tell you, "Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened for you"? Condemn your own understanding before you condemn others or else you make yourself no better than the ones who condemned Jesus to the cross.

originally posted by: EviLCHiMP
a reply to: 2012newstart

Secondly, the teaching you receive in the new testament is nearly a fraction of the entirety of christian doctrines that exist from the same time as, and some earlier than, the original "gospel."

you said it all. You prove my point.
we stand on a some kind of doctrine instead on a real gospel text.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: ReAppollonius
a reply to: Raggedyman

That was just one thing I have always been curious about, that and the two deaths of Judas Iscariot.

What two deaths of Judas? He died once, he hung himself on a cliff.

I guess you could assume the unlikely scenario that judas hung himself AND fell headlong and burst asunder but they aren't connected by the person telling the story they are different accounts with different results, different deaths.

If you say both happened and together you are making a connection that is an assumption.

One account doesn't mention a hanging
The other leaves out falling and bursting for no apparent reason.

Neither are minor details and by having two writers tell different endings without making any possible way to tell if it is two contradictions or not and if so which is true leads people to make the assumption you have made but it is not supported by the Bible.

a reply to: NOTurTypical



The death of Judas is a mystery and I don't draw conclusions to make sense out of something that doesn't (make sense). I prefer to understand it that it is meant to be mysterious as is the betrayal itself to give you the opportunity to reach the conclusion that Judas might not have been guilty of death and. might not have died. Judas is not a betrayer because he was essentially under God's orders and possessed by The Satan. It's more mysterious than saying he is a traitor and more correst as he was an agent of (what Christianity believes to be) its salvation.

Jesus death, whether an act of salvation or not, is what Jesus declares he and God want. Judas is their agent in bringing this plan to fruition. He may have not died by hanger or bursting or at all.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
1987 years "Christianity" - and where is the Kingdom of God that Jesus preached? Instead, bloodshed of Christians in the first 3 centuries, followed by bloodshed of heretics, and of peoples who did not accept the new religion.

There is no Kingdom of God as preached because its all a farce. The book is what it is, a book. It's built to raise spirits but now seeing hundreds and thousands of years pass, we are no better. This is due to the fact this is how things are, this is how it is. End of game.

Those in power always wish to force an ideology onto others at the fear of being killed. Fear controls people and that shows in both fear mongering or 'supposed' thoughtful preaching.

a reply to: 2012newstart

You are hung up on Church doctrine and, not actual scripture. The Catholic church was born from Constantinian religion. It was the church elites that took the bible away from the common man, and taught Dominionist Theocracy. None of that was ever taught by Jesus. So why blame all christians for the actions of a few?

originally posted by: 2012newstart
Yes, Jesus clearly says the Kingdom of God must come, .....

Luke 17:20 "Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ "

It's not a place somewhere ! It's just a form of rule (governing)

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I never blamed all common Christians. Read my last posts please.

originally posted by: BlackProject
There is no Kingdom of God as preached because its all a farce....

Ever since Jesus came, the rule of God (the kingdom of God) is present in the world.

I think that this thread proves why I became an atheist. It's time to let go of religion.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Sorry for putting words in your mouth.

originally posted by: ReAppollonius

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: ReAppollonius
a reply to: Raggedyman

That was just one thing I have always been curious about, that and the two deaths of Judas Iscariot.

What two deaths of Judas? He died once, he hung himself on a cliff.

I guess you could assume the unlikely scenario that judas hung himself AND fell headlong and burst asunder but they aren't connected by the person telling the story they are different accounts with different results, different deaths.

If you say both happened and together you are making a connection that is an assumption.

One account doesn't mention a hanging
The other leaves out falling and bursting for no apparent reason.

Neither are minor details and by having two writers tell different endings without making any possible way to tell if it is two contradictions or not and if so which is true leads people to make the assumption you have made but it is not supported by the Bible.

It's one death, Judas hung himself. When he was cut down he burst from the bloating. He would not have been touched on Passover or the day after because it was a weekly Sabbath. So it's the same death, one writer is telling that Judas killed himself by hanging, the other writer is talking about what happened to the body when it fell.

a reply to: 2012newstart

2 Peter 3: 3-9

3 First of all, know [without any doubt] that mockers will come in the last days with their mocking, following after their own human desires 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming [what has become of it]? For ever since the fathers fell asleep [in death], all things have continued [exactly] as they did from the beginning of creation.” 5 For they willingly forget [the fact] that the heavens existed long ago by the word of God, and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly people.

8 Nevertheless, do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like one day. 9 The Lord does not delay [as though He were unable to act] and is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is [extraordinarily] patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Congratulations you and all your supporters continue to fulfill the propsesy in the above scripture.
The ONLY reason why things haven't ended is actually so more can be saved when judgement finally does arrive, and time is running out, in fact if Trump gets in, watch everything accelerate, mark my words and mark them well.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Its OK. I answer for the audience mostly. Actually I agree with many of your points.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

I agree with your conclusion the things will accelerate shortly.

About the epistle of Peter, you know, if there was a strong believer in these and other words, it was I. The problem is, I hear those interpretations way too long. And people hear them for dozen centuries.

a reply to: BlackProject

Well I believe Jesus came and said things that we were never told about, because of those people that you and other posters describe. They wil ruin the Christian faith altogether, if there aren't Christians with sane reason to stand up for what they truly believe in a merciful and faithful God.