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1987 years failure of Christianity to build God's kingdom. Jesus' teaching recorded correctly?

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posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: ReAppollonius

I know my posts cab be confusing to some

I guess that's why I stated Romans 7/6 in a clear and meaningful way
Please feel free to research it yourself

But you can dismiss anything I say as wrong, doesn't mean I think it is wrong




posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

I am not at all confused but thanks for trying to make it seem that way!

In summary, you stated Jesus SAID he ended the now dead Torah/Law;

I asked for the quote from Jesus using those words "died" and "Law."

You realized he didn't say it and tried passing off Romans as an explanation for why you said that.

Only problem: Jesus is not even quoted one time in Romans and didn't actually say that so you were not confusing you were confused and are backpedaling trying to make it appear otherwise.

Had you not said Jesus said that I'd have had no reason to correct you. But you did say it and now that you can't support it in his words you attempt to make it seem like it was your own profundity that made me "confused" but it was a matter of incorrectness. Not opinion or a disagreement on interpretation, he just plain didn't say that.

We all make mistakes and I thought you were owning it but I see now that is not your style. Better to make me look confused, right?

It simply is obviously not a case of me being confused I simply corrected a statement that was incorrect and now you know he didn't say it and have learned something.

That's a good thing, learning.


edit on 15-8-2016 by ReAppollonius because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2016 by ReAppollonius because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2016 by ReAppollonius because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: 2012newstart


I don't think Breaking Israel News article is "fake". Rather we witness two branches of Judaism arguing between themselves. We know well the tradition of Rabbi Nachman is not the only one existing in Israel.

All those stories seem to be coming from one guy: Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz. Perhaps you should get ahold of him and ask him why he's doing what he's doing.


Matt 18 WEB
18Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in heaven.

19Again, assuredly I tell you, that if two of you will agree on earth concerning anything that they will ask, it will be done for them by my Father who is in heaven.

This is the principle that rabbis go by, their ongoing discovery of "truth" or creation of "reality". If they agree, then it's true.



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

I know. But I was not commenting on the bible. I just said there was a flood, contrary to what the member I responded too, wrote.



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: 2012newstart


I don't think Breaking Israel News article is "fake". Rather we witness two branches of Judaism arguing between themselves. We know well the tradition of Rabbi Nachman is not the only one existing in Israel.

All those stories seem to be coming from one guy: Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz. Perhaps you should get ahold of him and ask him why he's doing what he's doing.


Matt 18 WEB
18Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in heaven.

19Again, assuredly I tell you, that if two of you will agree on earth concerning anything that they will ask, it will be done for them by my Father who is in heaven.

This is the principle that rabbis go by, their ongoing discovery of "truth" or creation of "reality". If they agree, then it's true.


I think that this could be a good thing as what shouldn't evolve? Life, scientific knowledge, technology, medicine all evolve upon a consensus.

Why should faith be any different? The old way of dogmatically stunted religion should evolve to a more gnostically inclined faith. They are only truths within the faiths of the consenting and I do see a more spiritually evolved faith in Judaism with the Kabbalah and in Islam with Sufism while Christianity shuns it's own known evolution from "Gnosticism" as if it is irrelevant and that's just sad. Without knowledge there is no faith other than in what your pastor or priest tells you is orthodox, deviation from dogma is frowned upon and the only (as a whole) religion that shuns gnostic type practices, even reading about them, is in general Orthodox Fundamental Christianity as even Islam has its gnostic type Sufis.

Christianity doesn't really have that, save some very obscure neo-Gnostics who are probably just capitalizing on recent archeological (N.H.C., D.S.S., etc.) discoveries and without them wouldn't exist.

It would revitalize the whole faith if the fundies dropped the literalist charade and encouraged the reading of the apocryphal finds of the last century and the Apocrypha of old.

None of it qualifies as historical anyhow so they are short sighted in not realizing the benefits these exotic books would have, and I suspect that they are just nervous about encouraging what the early church criticized. Catholicism has gnostic practices in Jesuitism but those guys are creepy and require oaths that are anti-gospel but if done correctly it could be a boon.

Islam is actually the fastest growing religion statistically speaking and Christianity is losing adherants faster than they can baptize out of a weird loyalty to ancient opinions that we know now were false or heavily embellished even though they consider the Catholic Church to be pagan Babylon and the Antichrist (like that didn't happen until Luther or something, idk).

edit on 15-8-2016 by ReAppollonius because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2016 by ReAppollonius because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: 2012newstart


I don't think Breaking Israel News article is "fake". Rather we witness two branches of Judaism arguing between themselves. We know well the tradition of Rabbi Nachman is not the only one existing in Israel.

All those stories seem to be coming from one guy: Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz. Perhaps you should get ahold of him and ask him why he's doing what he's doing.

This is the principle that rabbis go by, their ongoing discovery of "truth" or creation of "reality". If they agree, then it's true.


Well I guess he is the journalist who writes the spiritual prophetic articles, nothing strange.

The rabbis make unprecedented move already for a year as far as I know, it might be longer. To share with the rest of us what they know of prophecy. I can only congratulate them for their generosity and boldness. They know their reception is not unequivocal among the Christians. Let they know there are Christians who are glad to hear their words!



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: ReAppollonius

we can talk of 2 Esdras for days if not longer. The first few chapters someone said were not authentic by the way. See wikipedia. The book is canonical in the Latin Bible.

Here is the verse about the duration of the world. I believe it is speaking of time and not of space.

www.sacred-texts.com...

2 Esdras Chapter 14

10 For the world hath lost his youth, and the times begin to wax old.

11 For the world is divided into twelve parts, and the ten parts of it are gone already, and half of a tenth part:

12 And there remaineth that which is after the half of the tenth part.


You can make a math equation with some effort, I already lost mine.

There are many more interesting things in the last chapters of the book. Dragons of Persia vs Iran and Syria. Their own star to afflict terror on Babylon. The messiah arrival (before that!). The eagle animal with 3 heads and...how many feathers symbolizing the same kingdom as 4th beast of Daniel. I never could decode it.
edit on 15-8-2016 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

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posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: 2012newstart

See this here:
This was July 2014, more than two years ago.
Dates have been removed from easy view. Conspiracy?


Rav Chaim, who recently told us that Moshiach is at the door, is hinting to the fact that the mourning and fasting of Tisha B’Av will revert to a feast day. Tradition has it that when Moshiach is announced, Tisha B’Av will change from a fast day of lamentations to a feast day of celebration. Does that mean that Moshiach will be announced within the next three weeks? With all that is happening in the world, especially in Israel, I think it is looking very good!
rav-chaim-kanievsky-speaks-about-moshiach




Well I guess he is the journalist who writes the spiritual prophetic articles

He's a politics journalist.
edit on 15-8-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: 2012newstart

Funny you mentioned Persia as that timetable is very Zend-Avesta related as the Mazdayaznians gave A LOT to Judaism including most of the Kabbalah in as much as cosmogony is concerned and Ahriman forever changed the role of Satan because Christianity adopted the dualism but not so much Rabbinical Judaism but the no longer extant sects had Mastema and Belial which became amalgamated into Satan, Prince of Darkness. A plague of a belief that even modern Parsees have rendered merely symbolic while Christianity continues to assign everything to a real Satan.

Madness. I was listening to Esdras on YouTube which is good when you don't feel like reading they'll read it for you.



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: ReAppollonius


The old way of dogmatically stunted religion should evolve to a more gnostically inclined faith.


Gnostic Doctrine

Not all humans are spiritual (pneumatics) and thus ready for Gnosis and liberation. Some are earthbound and materialistic beings (hyletics), who recognize only the physical reality. Others live largely in their psyche (psychics). Such people usually mistake the Demiurge for the True God and have little or no awareness of the spiritual world beyond matter and mind.

In the course of history, humans progress from materialistic sensate slavery, by way of ethical religiosity, to spiritual freedom and liberating Gnosis. As the scholar G. Quispel wrote: “The world-spirit in exile must go through the Inferno of matter and the Purgatory of morals to arrive at the spiritual Paradise.” This kind of evolution of consciousness was envisioned by the Gnostics, long before the concept of evolution was known.
gnintro

My doctrine:
The World-spirit is not in exile. The World-spirit is right at home.



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: pthena

Technically no such thing as a Gnostic doctrine ever existed as nothing is to sacred to question and interpretation is personal.

Gnosis is about self-knowledge and doctrine or dogma are anathema to the very concept.

Some may disagree but I am more than familiar with the actual texts and the emphasis is on Wisdom and basic human decency.

IF the god of the Tanakh Yahweh was real he would be considered evil because wisdom dictates his deeds as if anyone else had committed them.

Allegorical interpretation was more the way knowledge was imparted but there has never been a legitimate doctrine because it isn't a religion it's a principle of common sense.



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: pthena

Whoever this G. Quispel is has his own interpretations and no world spirit in exile is from any logical interpretation of anything I have ever read.

He doesn't dictate anything but what he himself believes and he speaks for him.

The best expression of Gnostic thought is the Gospel of Thomas, hands down the most authentic representation of self knowledge.

Not some guy named Quimby.
edit on 15-8-2016 by ReAppollonius because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: pthena

The Spirit is within and without, above and below is a rough paraphrase of what Jesus says in both the Gospel of Thomas and the Canonical Gospels both although in the Gospels it is not as profoundly put as in Thomas.

The "world spirit" is not even a correct term from the N.H.C. as the Spirit is Wisdom itself and the main focus other than the Logos or Christ himself and Seth, son of Adam.

If the Spirit aka Wisdom was in exile then Gnosis would be impossible so I reckon Quimby is in error, i.m.o. at least. I'm sure he thinks he's correct but I don't know anyone who would agree that the Spirit, who was left in the world after the Logos ascension, could possibly be exiled from the world.

Sophia/Wisdom was in Eden, at the Crucifixion and has been in the world spiritually all along. I don't mean to rant I just don't like that interpretation as it hasn't any foundation.



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: 2012newstart
1987 years failure of Christianity to build God's kingdom....


What are you talking about ? Who said anything about building a kingdom ? You obviously have no idea what the kingdom of God is ?

Listen and learn ! The kingdom of God is the rule of God, it's not a place on earth ! Jesus Christ came to rule in God's name, all the good things he did, was a display of God's rule, that is the kingdom of God ! Christianity, true Christianity, has continued doing good things to this very day. This is God's rule, this is God's kingdom on earth. No one said anything about, turning earth into paradise or curing everybody.
edit on 15-8-2016 by Ove38 because: text fix



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: Ove38

The Kingdom of God is on earth and in Heaven as well as within (us) and without.

What are you talking about? It's you whose idea misses the mark.



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: 2012newstart
1987 years failure of Christianity to build God's kingdom....


What are you talking about ? Who said anything about building a kingdom ? You obviously have no idea what the kingdom of God is ?

Listen and learn ! The kingdom of God is the rule of God, it's not a place on earth !

. This is God's rule, this is God's kingdom on earth.


It's not a place on earth, yet earth is the location (one) of God's Kingdom? That is a perfect contradiction.



No one said anything about, turning earth into paradise, curing everybody.


Jesus said that it should be done "On earth, as it is in Heaven."

Is Jesus "No one"?



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 04:16 PM
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The kingdom of God on earth is God's rule on earth. It's not a particular place, only a administration. God's will being done on earth ! That's all.
edit on 15-8-2016 by Ove38 because: text fix



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: pthena

I am reading on that website all the time and while I don't agree with Quispel I didn't notice that link even saying what you quoted (although I may have missed it).

I didn't agree with everything in that summary but it was essentially correct in that rather than salvation from sin one should seek salvation from ignorance which will ultimately produce the salvation from sin.

Far superior to the theology of salvation through grace. Not that Christ's mission was focused on salvation but more on Wisdom and the Kingdom of God.

Believing in some mythical human sacrifice was seen as grotesquely misrepresenting the entire purpose of the Logos which was Wisdom, Reason and good old logical thinking. Christ as the Word is a Gnostic/neo Platonic philosophy incorporated into Catholicism from the "Gnostics." It means a whole lot more than just "the Word."
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posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: Ove38
The kingdom of God on earth is God's rule on earth. It's not a particular place, only a administration. God's will being done on earth ! That's all.


If you say so.


But...earth IS a place and so is God's Kingdom. You seem focused on the acceptance of the tyranny of Yahweh than the actual Kingdom of God as Christ explains it.

A Kingdom by definition is more than a set of tyrannical rules or Rule. Kingdoms are vast hierarchies with rulers and sub rulers yet the Kingdom of God is also in every person waiting for the Spirit to open your eye which is essentially Wisdom.

Wisdom is the key to unlocking the gates of heaven and the Kingdom of God is inescapable as it's infinite.

Although you may be in the Kingdom it's a matter of seeing the Kingdom and realizing WHAT the Kingdom is and it is not about rule or rules but Light, so that you may "see" the Kingdom. Many can't because they haven't a healthy eye to see with and only Wisdom can cure that.


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edit on 15-8-2016 by ReAppollonius because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2016 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: ReAppollonius
a reply to: pthena
....Believing in some mythical human sacrifice was seen as grotesquely misrepresenting the entire purpose of the Logos which was Wisdom, Reason and good old logical thinking. Christ as the Word is a Gnostic/neo Platonic philosophy incorporated into Catholicism from the "Gnostics." It means a whole lot more than just "the Word."


The teachings about the Word has nothing to do with "Wisdom, Reason and good old logical thinking"

Listen and learn ! The word of God, created the old world. The word of God is the key to create a new world. God rules by his word !
edit on 15-8-2016 by Ove38 because: text fix



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