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1987 years failure of Christianity to build God's kingdom. Jesus' teaching recorded correctly?

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posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 07:00 AM
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a reply to: enterthestage

I don't understand why there should be one single antichrist if Jesus himself talks of many false christs who would come pretending to be he himself. I comment it more in the linked thread below. Wouldn't Jesus warn us in his own words if that was the case? The end times scenarios omit that part. We have a beast in Daniel and John, but the beast is also a system that may stretch for centuries. Or that may come after another set of 20 centuries or more.

I don't know about Saul's story. I have to read more to comment it, and now don;t have that time. It is strange though that the apostles were sure the false guy was around and expected Jesus around the corner all their lives. Did they believe the evil one was Nero or someone else?

What today's Ultra-conservative Christians don't understand, is that the antichrist is not someone to come from Israel. If we buy into that theory, and I already said my objections about it. It is a foreign political leader who invades Israel. It is not someone Jewish king, as we are told by so many deluded preachers.

I stand on my position already expressed in numerous posts, that also evolves with time. I learned much from the rabbis about their view of the history in the future, based on the Prophets. A Jewish king, or called otherwise messiah, would not in any way take the place of Jesus. The Jewish Rabbis never ever claimed that. Why should the Christians fall into hysteria every time the Jewish Messiah is being mentioned? After all, that is what the prophets wrote and what the Jews expect until today. Between him and the end of the world there could be 1000 or more years, when Jesus will come as the judge. What so different or wrong in that position, I really don't understand.

To reform Christianity? No thanks, sure I am not in that role! 1700 year old system. There were attempts to reform it from within and outside. There were great saints within the Catholic Church. Padre Pio couldn't reform it, he who talked of beings on other planets and did hundreds of documented miracles. If there is someone to reform it, it is the God-chosen group of 144,000 that I talked about. They may not arrive in one month altogether. Our understanding of the scripture is too literal and limited. We should admit at least that, leaving the door open for God to act in our times as He did before.
edit on 20-8-2016 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 07:06 AM
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originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: SevenThunders

I know that theory in detail. So we care of ONE Jewish temple that doesn't exist for 1900 years, and we don't care of THOUSANDS of Christian temples that are desecrated so many times? If we are looking for "abomination of desolation" it already took place many times in our Christian churches. I can't imagine why someone would like to sacrifice pigs at the stil non built Jewish temple, and the Christians will die of fear because the Jews might start sacrificing lambs? Don;t the Muslims do exactly the same everywhere, and no one calls them antichrists?

I understand the point of view of ZIonist Christians who do not agree with ~1700-year old theology and coined their own, closer to the roots, but it is somewhat wrong in that part concerning the Jews and their role in salvation. Moreover, the Messianic Jews are something new


Messianic Judaism started before Jesus and if not for Christianity exterminating them would still exist. Modern M. Judaism is nothing like what Jesus taught as they believe Paul and are just regular Christians. Real Messianic Judaism is regular Judaism waiting for the Messiah. Those other groups are weak by comparison, to Christianity and Judaism, and I gather very confused.




edit on 20-8-2016 by enterthestage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 07:22 AM
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originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: enterthestage

I don't understand why there should be one single antichrist if Jesus himself talks of many false christs who would come pretending to be he himself.


I never said only one there are 3 beasts (not called antichrists in Revelation btw) and Saul wasn't a false Messiah he was a false prophet. Many false Messiahs have existed from Simon Magus to Zevy and Frank, bar Kochba, Jesus Ananus and more. The Beasts have always been here you don't have to wait for them they never left.



I comment it more in the linked thread below. Wouldn't Jesus warn us in his own words if that was the case?


He did in Matthew and Revelation.



The end times scenarios omit that part. We have a beast in Daniel and John, but the beast is also a system that may stretch for centuries. Or that may come after another set of 20 centuries or more.

I don't know about Saul's story. I have to read more to comment it,


I could tell by your words but you admit it, that is step one. Step two Google: Saul false prophet and you can have it mapped out for you.



and now don;t have that time.


You can't find an hour?



It is strange though that the apostles were sure the false guy was around and expected Jesus around the corner all their lives. Did they believe the evil one was Nero or someone else?


He was one of 3 beasts, yes.



What today's Ultra-conservative Christians don't understand, is that the antichrist is not someone to come from Israel. If we buy into that theory, and I already said my objections about it. It is a foreign political leader who invades Israel. It is not someone Jewish king, as we are told by so many deluded preachers. Here is one perfect view of those theories by Churck Missler, who gives arguments in favor of Eastern and specifically Assyrian invader. Because I post it doesn't mean I agree with it. I just want to show that view as more provable than the other views of the antichrist.



I stand on my position already expressed in


You are doing so and in your own words with a lack in knowledge, stand by it if you will or take time to learn.



numerous posts, that also evolves with time. I learned much from the rabbis about their view of the history in the future, based on the Prophets. A Jewish king, or called otherwise messiah, would not in any way take the place of Jesus. The Jewish Rabbis never ever claimed that. Why should the Christians fall into hysteria every time the Jewish Messiah is being mentioned? After all, that is what the prophets wrote and what the Jews expect until today. Between him and the end of the world there could be 1000 or more years, when Jesus will come as the judge. What so different or wrong in that position, I really don't understand.

It is sad that Christians never consider it serious. Perhaps they will change their views, before the planetary event, that is not necessarily the Great Trib. (asteroids come before the beast, no matter how we look at the Revelation).


Change your admittedly uninformed opinion of Saul by becoming informed. And don't take everything literal because the Bible is esoteric wisdom not a one meaning book. It's a huge parable and you either trust God, ask for the Spirit of Truth and learn, learn, learn. Or you trust men.

Spirit is Wisdom, this I am sure of. You need to be a sincere seeker of Wisdom and don't allow a man to baptize you have Jesus or God do it. That shows you trust them over man and Wisdom will reward and is the reward.
🔯⏳⚖🔅🐲🗽🐺
edit on 20-8-2016 by enterthestage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 09:04 PM
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originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: NOTurTypical


If that was a fact (I don't know) it has nothing to do with the facts available in the Gospels and the real fact is two authors say one Judas died two different ways.

I love when Christianity tries using science to explain technical difficulties in scripture and then curses science over evolution. Lol

In this case it just doesn't work. Either he hung himself or fell and burst. Your opinion is far from fact, it can't be proven and the FACT that two different accounts of one mans death exist in the Gospels is...a fact. It's a guess, what you are saying, pure and simple guess.


No, the author of Acts never tells HOW Judas died, he only tells what happened to his body when he fell headlong into the field of blood. Luke never says whether Judas was alive or dead. If you ever take a tour to Israel someday notice the ledge/cliff overlooking the field of blood, that's where it's assumed Judas hung himself from. When he was cut down 3 days later or if his body weight caused the branch to break when he hung himself isn't known, but he fell down to the field and burst open. That's what makes me believe it's the former, that when the Sabbaths were complete he was cut down from the tree.



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 10:23 PM
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a reply to: 2012newstart

We don't know whom the final anti-christ will be. No one does yet for sure. Those prophecies were sealed up to the time of the end. We will not start to really unravel them until we see them start to actually unfold.

And it is also known for sure that not even Christ was told the whole of it as He didn't even know the actual time of the return. He told His apostles "soon," but time operates differently for God than it does for us. The Bible makes this clear a few times. God's "soon" and our "soon" are two different concepts.



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 10:39 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: 2012newstart

We don't know whom the final anti-christ will be. No one does yet for sure. Those prophecies were sealed up to the time of the end. We will not start to really unravel them until we see them start to actually unfold.

And it is also known for sure that not even Christ was told the whole of it as He didn't even know the actual time of the return. He told His apostles "soon," but time operates differently for God than it does for us. The Bible makes this clear a few times. God's "soon" and our "soon" are two different concepts.


32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Matthew 24:34 and Luke 21:32)

Guess those guy's (and gals) listening to Jesus thought it was coming in their lifetime. Here we are....2000 some odd years later, and it still hasn't happened.
How do you explain that, Ketsuko?
Jesus spoke only what His Father told Him to speak. So, to tell the audience listening at that time that it would be "their generation", would cause them to think it's right around the corner. Didn't happen...still hasn't happened. Huh.



posted on Aug, 20 2016 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: NOTurTypical


If that was a fact (I don't know) it has nothing to do with the facts available in the Gospels and the real fact is two authors say one Judas died two different ways.

I love when Christianity tries using science to explain technical difficulties in scripture and then curses science over evolution. Lol

In this case it just doesn't work. Either he hung himself or fell and burst. Your opinion is far from fact, it can't be proven and the FACT that two different accounts of one mans death exist in the Gospels is...a fact. It's a guess, what you are saying, pure and simple guess.


No, the author of Acts never tells HOW Judas died, he only tells what happened to his body when he fell headlong into the field of blood. Luke never says whether Judas was alive or dead. If you ever take a tour to Israel someday notice the ledge/cliff overlooking the field of blood, that's where it's assumed Judas hung himself from. When he was cut down 3 days later or if his body weight caused the branch to break when he hung himself isn't known, but he fell down to the field and burst open. That's what makes me believe it's the former, that when the Sabbaths were complete he was cut down from the tree.


What I find compelling is that there was no forgiveness for Judas, who realized the wrong he'd done by the time he saw Jesus arrested. So much so, that he went to the priests and tried to give them back their 30 denarius. He was actually SO repentant and ashamed that he hung himself (or whatever, since there are two versions to the story).
Yet, "God" had no mercy on him....HOWEVER, a murdering Pharisee named Saul of Tarsus, who never felt remorse at ALL for all the "followers of the Way" he was arresting and having murdered, until he supposedly got his arse kicked by some blinding light apparition, gets picked to be the apostle to the gentiles!! Oh wow! That's some serious partiality there on God's part.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 02:23 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I have to agree with you.

Noisy preachers who set up dates of rapture and antichrist, always fail. I will not name anyone, but there are strong expectations of 2016 and 2017, as there were in 2014-15 (Blood moons), 2012 (too many to be named), 2011 (Harold Camping), 2009 (Catholic seers, secular UFO-logists), 2000 (MANY Catholic seers including former papal adviser don Gobi), and so on.

Instead, there is a more balanced and intellectual approach of Chuck Missler, posted some years ago. He doesn't say he is 100% right, the opposite, He invites us to REASON on the facts he present or those that we will find. His videos are very informative in first place. Therefore I invite you all to listen them for informative purpose, even if you don't agree with his conclusions. I don't agree with everything either. If I have to select an End times preacher to sound convincing to me, I'd select him. For example, he was the first to propose there could be a PERIOD of time between the rapture and the rise of antichrist, not just one day but may be as many as 20 years. Former US missiles engineer, a man of science, he has some Bible research on Astronomy. He knows what he talks about, and he doesn't impose his view as the only right one that has the right to exist as truth for God's Christian people. I respect him although I do not agree with everything he says. Here is his lecture of the Antichrist www.youtube.com...

Well of course I'd be happiest if rapture happens tomorrow and we all who believe in Jesus Christ are taken up to Him. That would be the fulfillment of not only all our lives but also of the life of the Church of God.

That could happen with clouds, that could happen with spaceships, with chariots of Elijah and Wheels of Ezekiel.

But that may not happen tomorrow! We may have intervals of time that we skip in the narrow script of Revelation. I talked of some of them already, others might exist as well. Who would not say WW2 was one of the battles of the End times? And we are still here! Pius 12 said the Soviets were the beast, and we are still here, with Soviets changing themselves 20 years ago! Perhaps the antichris (to use that terminology although incorrect IMO) is too smart to show up in advance, even if he is already on earth, and we don't know whether he is here or not. May be not 200 years but may be 20 years are something that certainly the prophecies could accommodate with, even if the preachers of today do not.

So if the rapture chariots come tomorrow in the sky, if we have a time to jump to internet I will be the first one to cry: jump into God's rescue vessels! But if not, then we have to live our lives as long as God gives, and not only personal egoistic well being but also in a way to bring God's words and also kingdom to earth, for salvation of most people possible. If that envisions some rearrangement of today's Israel due to the 144,000 then it means it is God's will. Because WE DON'T KNOW if the rapture will happen in Revelation 4. Let it happen! Revelation 4 could have happened at the time of John when the 7 churches in Asia Minor (today's Turkey) still existed! How could that unimportant fact be skipped by Revelation researchers and End times all-knowing people?

We just don't know, regardless of how intelligent and educated on the subject we are. We are not the ones to put deadlines and ultimatums to God, rather listen carefully to His. Because His way of salvation may differ from our expectations, may differ between two followers of Jesus Christ although all of us claim that in all honesty. The fact we believe sincerely in Jesus Christ doesn't make us infallible. I am fallible, everyone posting here is fallible, pope Francis is fallible. And he didn't speak ex-cathedra dogma on the subject to be considered infallible word of Peter's successor. With that being said and well known to people who care, I don't understand why there are so zealous people on internet and in life, who believe they hold the ultimate key to God's knowledge and future, and all others would go to hell if they do not repent on their terms presented as "terms" of God the almighty. It is kind of not being very humble in first place. But more problematic is, it might be wrong such view. Poor people who would follow such failed preachers! I am not talking of saving one's soul here, because it is Jesus who saves it, I am talking of delusion that may see you left behind, and not only from a rapture chariot but also from a rescue vessel /place on this planet. And thus not contributing any further in history (with your children etc) rather than being sacrificed for goals not quite clear. Jesus never ever said we have to die all with him. And that is a real problem not so much of the followers of End times mega church preachers, as it is for the devote but fantasized Catholics and their families.
edit on 21-8-2016 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 05:47 AM
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Although China is not the first problem of the pope, it is very strange that the two billion-wide organizations among the oldest on the planet do not have official diplomatic ties. What was made wrong as series of mutual mistakes in the pre-Vatican II, should be fixed now without any preconditions.

In all, the Catholic Church should stop playing the role of exceptional organization of God-chosen people. The hierarchy should start serving God's people not commanding them in outdated mode.

Perhaps not everyone of those billion plus faithful is so happy of how the things are run. I am not happy for example, and I know there are quite many others. The pope may say good things, but those sayings don't reach the bottom.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 05:55 AM
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originally posted by: 2012newstart
Although China is not the first problem of the pope, it is very strange that the two billion-wide organizations among the oldest on the planet do not have official diplomatic ties. What was made wrong as series of mutual mistakes in the pre-Vatican II, should be fixed now without any preconditions.


unofficially they obviously have diplomatic relations and have nothing to gain from publicising the arrangement.



In all, the Catholic Church should stop playing the role of exceptional organization of God-chosen people. The hierarchy should start serving God's people not commanding them in outdated mode.


Every religious organization does this. Tithing is not just a Catholic thing and neither is having a hierarchy. Christians in general think they are the new chosen people of God.



Perhaps not everyone of those billion plus faithful is so happy of how the things are run. I am not happy for example, and I know there are quite many others. The pope may say good things, but those sayings don't reach the bottom.



Don't let them dictate your emotions because if you do they win.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 06:09 AM
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a reply to: enterthestage

well may be I didn't make it so clear but I consider myself a faithful catholic who struggles for a better church! The catholic church believes it is exceptional because of the words of Jesus to Peter. And because of lot of baggage in history that should be unloaded now in order not to sink it.

Of the diplomatic relations, it is really absurd how these diploamts from all sides never talk honestly. They always bragian as if they are poker players. Well I am not one of them of course, but we have seen enough movies.

Therefore, what I said several posts before, there is an urgent need to delegate more powers to the Young Church and to listen to what the youths have to say to her, not vice versus. Perhaps a conference of youths from all religions could do a better job than those diplomats. Because the kids first are not so corrupt, second do not bargain that hard, and third are ready to listen to and agree what is right without any gain in exchange. I guess how some -crats would call me already antichrist's pawn. Actually who is who? Let start everything anew, or we'd better say good bye to the civilization if not to the planet.



IMO the young Jewish prodigy (whoever he is) together with his thousands of friends throughout the world will put an end to today's corrupt system and start a new era. Call it whatever.

Just see how Merkel claims the terrorists were not among the migrants, and pope who calls for more migrants who "represented the face of Jesus"! It could be so if you had one or 10 families to invite them in Rome. it cannot be handled anymore with measures like that. Instead those leaders could start the new system in the Third world, not to have any need of migration. But they either don't want it or can't do it. How worse should it get before it starts getting better? Scorpions lyrics above is just on time, 2007 release. It is now or never, Either we start it all anew, or we will count several hundred millions survivors worldwide, as the doomsday scenarios say. I believe a window of opportunity and hope will arise very soon though.
edit on 21-8-2016 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2016 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 06:26 AM
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originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: NOTurTypical


If that was a fact (I don't know) it has nothing to do with the facts available in the Gospels and the real fact is two authors say one Judas died two different ways.

I love when Christianity tries using science to explain technical difficulties in scripture and then curses science over evolution. Lol

In this case it just doesn't work. Either he hung himself or fell and burst. Your opinion is far from fact, it can't be proven and the FACT that two different accounts of one mans death exist in the Gospels is...a fact. It's a guess, what you are saying, pure and simple guess.


No, the author of Acts never tells HOW Judas died, he only tells what happened to his body when he fell headlong into the field of blood. Luke never says whether Judas was alive or dead. If you ever take a tour to Israel someday notice the ledge/cliff overlooking the field of blood, that's where it's assumed Judas hung himself from. When he was cut down 3 days later or if his body weight caused the branch to break when he hung himself isn't known, but he fell down to the field and burst open. That's what makes me believe it's the former, that when the Sabbaths were complete he was cut down from the tree.


What I find compelling is that there was no forgiveness for Judas, who realized the wrong he'd done by the time he saw Jesus arrested. So much so, that he went to the priests and tried to give them back their 30 denarius. He was actually SO repentant and ashamed that he hung himself (or whatever, since there are two versions to the story).
Yet, "God" had no mercy on him....HOWEVER, a murdering Pharisee named Saul of Tarsus, who never felt remorse at ALL for all the "followers of the Way" he was arresting and having murdered, until he supposedly got his arse kicked by some blinding light apparition, gets picked to be the apostle to the gentiles!! Oh wow! That's some serious partiality there on God's part.


Well, the scriptures say Judas repented to himself, (changed his mind about betraying a friend), then he killed himself out of sorrow. Judas changed his mind, felt really sad about what he did, but he never repented toward God and asked for forgiveness for his sins. Had he done so, he would have been forgiven because the word of God declares God is no respecter of persons and He changes not.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 07:56 AM
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originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: 2012newstart

We don't know whom the final anti-christ will be. No one does yet for sure. Those prophecies were sealed up to the time of the end. We will not start to really unravel them until we see them start to actually unfold.

And it is also known for sure that not even Christ was told the whole of it as He didn't even know the actual time of the return. He told His apostles "soon," but time operates differently for God than it does for us. The Bible makes this clear a few times. God's "soon" and our "soon" are two different concepts.


32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Matthew 24:34 and Luke 21:32)

Guess those guy's (and gals) listening to Jesus thought it was coming in their lifetime. Here we are....2000 some odd years later, and it still hasn't happened.
How do you explain that, Ketsuko?
Jesus spoke only what His Father told Him to speak. So, to tell the audience listening at that time that it would be "their generation", would cause them to think it's right around the corner. Didn't happen...still hasn't happened. Huh.


"This generation"


“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Matthew 24: 32-35

It is in reference to the generation that sees the fig tree grow. The "fig tree" is a symbolic reference to Israel and why so many place such importance on the nation of Israel. It is the same "fig tree" that was cursed for so long.

The generation that witnesses the fig tree come to life will not pass away until it witnesses all these things.

The explanation is that the apostles did not learn the lesson of the lesson of the fig tree, but then, Israel had not quite been destroyed and the disapora had not taken place in their time as of yet. The remnants of the cursed fig still stood. They did see the destruction of the temple, and preterists will tell you that is what fulfills part of Revelation.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: 2012newstart

One day you may thank God for the 2000 years of patience he's had with us.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I thank and pray to Him everyday! God is not the corrupt officials though.

As I think of possible scenarios, I am divided between the expectations of soon to happen planetary cataclysm (or man-made or both) and a window of peace. If we listen to Fatima and other contemporary Catholic prophecies, virtually all of them speak of a Chastisement to come first. But when? You might want to consider once more the pros and cons for Fatima 2016-2017 fulfillment www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 08:40 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

that is al the "official story" sealed by Constantine and his fellow bishops (he should be elected 'pope', actually he pretended to be 'bishop' to the gentile Roman elite while he was unbaptized).
Have you read the Gospel of Judas?
BTW I don't think this is the main topic of this thread anyway.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 08:44 AM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Deetermined



exactly how it came to be that a single sperm could fertilize a tiny egg and have it fully develop into a human being

Why does it take millions of sperm to fertilize an egg?


Seriously though, the short and sweet answer is this: the 200 to 600 million sperm normally found in ejaculate increases the chance that some will reach a mature egg, eventually with just one being able to enter and fertilize it. Evolution likely accounts for the high sperm count in a typical ejaculate — a male who is able to produce more sperm obviously has a better likelihood of fertilizing a female than his competitors.
...
If a woman's sexual and reproductive health are in good working condition, the first sperm to cross the finish line (enter the egg) succeeds in fertilizing it. "Helper" sperm can also be credited for easing fertilization by allowing this particular sperm access to and contact with the mature egg during its trip. With conception initiated, the now fertilized egg sets off some mechanisms, such as thickening of cervical mucus and hardening of its outer surface (zona pellucida), to block all other sperm from entering the egg.





You missed my point. I'm talking about going back to the very beginning to tell us how sperm and eggs are created in the first place, not to mention how it sets off the pattern of creating a life.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: 2012newstart

I am not Catholic nor do I think the doctrines of the Catholic church adhere to the Bible. What is to come is the 70th week of Daniel. When only Christ knows as is common with Hebrew weddings. The groom comes for the bride after an extended period of absence. In the Bible we see a husband gone as long as seven years.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I understand. If this is the case to be in the beginning of the 7 year Trib, we should have the rapture yes? I want to be it in that way because it is easier for the believers.

The Catholic church's many servants are no more connected to the reality rather live in their own secluded world. I don't know, not going as far as Luter went in accusations, but definitely a big chastisement is coming also for the Church(es). The core believers believed the entire past century the Fatima apparitions as corrective of the system, something that never happened despite Vatican II council. Today there are hundreds of newer apparitions. I do not believe all of them, may be not even 10% of them. But all unite in the idea there will be severe Chastisement. Who knows? It woul dbe good if we knew it 500 days in advance not only 2 weeks in advance.



posted on Aug, 21 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: NOTurTypical


If that was a fact (I don't know) it has nothing to do with the facts available in the Gospels and the real fact is two authors say one Judas died two different ways.

I love when Christianity tries using science to explain technical difficulties in scripture and then curses science over evolution. Lol

In this case it just doesn't work. Either he hung himself or fell and burst. Your opinion is far from fact, it can't be proven and the FACT that two different accounts of one mans death exist in the Gospels is...a fact. It's a guess, what you are saying, pure and simple guess.


No, the author of Acts never tells HOW Judas died, he only tells what happened to his body when he fell headlong into the field of blood. Luke never says whether Judas was alive or dead. If you ever take a tour to Israel someday notice the ledge/cliff overlooking the field of blood, that's where it's assumed Judas hung himself from. When he was cut down 3 days later or if his body weight caused the branch to break when he hung himself isn't known, but he fell down to the field and burst open. That's what makes me believe it's the former, that when the Sabbaths were complete he was cut down from the tree.


What I find compelling is that there was no forgiveness for Judas, who realized the wrong he'd done by the time he saw Jesus arrested. So much so, that he went to the priests and tried to give them back their 30 denarius. He was actually SO repentant and ashamed that he hung himself (or whatever, since there are two versions to the story).
Yet, "God" had no mercy on him....HOWEVER, a murdering Pharisee named Saul of Tarsus, who never felt remorse at ALL for all the "followers of the Way" he was arresting and having murdered, until he supposedly got his arse kicked by some blinding light apparition, gets picked to be the apostle to the gentiles!! Oh wow! That's some serious partiality there on God's part.


Well, the scriptures say Judas repented to himself, (changed his mind about betraying a friend), then he killed himself out of sorrow. Judas changed his mind, felt really sad about what he did, but he never repented toward God and asked for forgiveness for his sins. Had he done so, he would have been forgiven because the word of God declares God is no respecter of persons and He changes not.



How do you know whether Judas repented to God or not? Jesus even said it was better that Judas had never been born, and called him the "son of perdition".
The point I was making was this...HAD God shown up to Judas (when he did feel sorrow for what he'd done (wanting to kill yourself is a pretty good indication of FEELING SORRY for something you've done), Judas could have been forgiven and saved. Then, you have a murdering Saul of Tarsus, who isn't even near feeling sorry or repenting....being chosen by Jesus to take the message to the gentiles?? (I bet you never read Acts chp. 1 either, to see what the criteria was for even BEING an apostle...and it was Matthias who was chosen to replace Judas....not Saul).
I can't believe the apologetics that go into explaining these stories...no matter how illogical or contradictory, when you really take a hard look at them, and don't just check your brain at the door and go on blind faith.
edit on 21-8-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



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