Question about mind control and who really fell for it

a reply to: Bedlam

The other thing you hear is that you can't make someone do something they wouldn't otherwise do, which is purest bull#. Sid Gottlieb demonstrated a fairly straightforward way to do that when he was dicking around with hypnosis during MK Ultra.

Purest bull# is what you tell from hearsay. If you read our conversation I was clearly talking about hypnosis sessions and not MK ultra drug and pain induced mind controll over hours, weeks, years. You can´t compare a hypnosis session with that. It takes a very weak mind and devote self and even then the safeguards are there.

You have to break the mind to override that. For that you need to traumatize the subject. It´s not like any hypnotist can come up to you, and half an hour later you go round with a machete and think it´s a red textmarker, "marking" peoples throats.

You can´t compare MK ultra with a hypnosis session. You might have read very much about the topic but you lack the real life experience.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Bedlam

Purest bull# is what you tell from hearsay. If you read our conversation I was clearly talking about hypnosis sessions and not MK ultra drug and pain induced mind controll over hours, weeks, years. You can´t compare a hypnosis session with that. It takes a very weak mind and devote self and even then the safeguards are there.

Gottlieb was able to do it in just a few hypnosis sessions with random staff at the office. He wasn't convinced it would be that useful in the field, though, but had repeated demoes that he could, in fact, get people to do odd things by misdirecting them.

The whole drugs, light and pain thing was abandoned. MK Ultra was originally for vetting double agents and spies, and for their handlers to make sure they hadn't or wouldn't turn back. It sort of grew into something weirder through major mission creep but that was the original intent. Some process that takes that long and that much effort wasn't too useful.

Later on, they found a faster and less chancey means to influence people, but you wouldn't want to do it to your agents for office hijinks. That may have improved since, but most people's minds were too resilient for it to last for long. Hell, even MK Ultra techniques in their purest form were pretty crappy. Jason Bourne is probably not possible.

a reply to: intrptr

Actually a couple of my family members are members here as well, I talk openly about my membership here with them. I was just being comedic by using the term sneak in. Also when I say large family unit, I'm also taking about people who are married into our family, and people who are family with each other by choice, my definition of family is a little more broadly defined than just bloodline. However, just my bloodline family is pretty big.

a reply to: Bedlam

Can you give me some keywords or a link about those random people and what he made them do?
Because I could not find anything but a remark that he had subscribed different medications to some staff of the white house but I´m not satisfied with the source (german).

Edit:
Of course, if someone is on '___' and you tell him he´s a glas of orange juice, it´s a different thing then approaching random people with a quick induction. Quick inductions are indeed possible but the one will snap out of it and the depth of the trance has to be pushed further down.
There are possibilities like making the subject roll it´s eyes upwards, making it impossible to open the eyes and use that to convince him of your power. Even with that, I had one who got frightened and snapped out of it. This particular one was very easy to induce but that was the safeguard kicking in.

Again, Dr. Gottlieb probably had access to the medical records, so I would not count on it being so random.

a reply to: intrptr

This is one of the things I've been witnessing lately, people in positions of high power, behaving in a manner that is polar opposite of what would be considered the norm or the way they have behaved in the past. Things like that make me think to myself, what I'm the world is controlling these people to make them do that?

a reply to: Bedlam

General hypnosis, was the start of the discussion, but this stuff right here is the real meat of the discussion that I wanted to learn more about, long term torture type mind control like the MK Ultras, my curiosities lie in would they be long term sleeper cell effect, could this stuff wear off after a period of time. Or would their general facades of being a good person be part of the so called torture or mind control that effected them, thanks for bringing the conversation to this level.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Bedlam

Can you give me some keywords or a link about those random people and what he made them do?
Again, Dr. Gottlieb probably had access to the medical records, so I would not count on it being so random.

Bump me next week, I'm off on vacation and don't have access to my notes. Should be back on the 23rd.

But the two things that stood out were the one that stripped in the lunch room and 'took a shower', and the one (his secretary, IIRC?) who he got to 'kill' his boss by telling her the starter pistol was a squirt gun. I have a recollection that there was a bet between Gottlieb and his immediate superior that he could not get anyone to kill that way and he responded by getting her to 'squirt' him during a big meeting. Pulled it out of her purse and bang bang bang.

originally posted by: DonVoigt
Things like that make me think to myself, what I'm the world is controlling these people to make them do that?

Maybe they always did, and it used to be easier in the past to control the news.

These days, it's a lot more chaotic and out of their control. So you hear a lot of this sort of thing, or cops behaving badly, or judges or prosecutors, when they always acted pretty much just like this and you never had it so much in your face as it is now.

a reply to: Bedlam

Some of the statements you made there made me laugh, based on those statements, I would have made a horrible subject for something like that.
1. I have always had a very naturall leadership ability even as a child.
2. I was never good at following orders that didn't make sense to me, I was quick to question authority, which got me into to quite a bit of trouble as a young man.
3. I like to make jokes about things that will throw someone for a loop. Just to see their reaction.
4. Back in my youth I was a lifeguard, and I absolutely believed in the whole mentality that goes with it, being alert to your surroundings, looking out for the well being of other people, and so on.

a reply to: Bedlam

I´ll try to not forget it. Stripping in the lunch room, no problem. If the person has no issues with her body, even if she would never undress while awake. Being naked is nothing spectacular, if you do not have issues with your body.

The squirt gun, however is another thing and I will not deny it´s possible. But not without being induced right before. Triggers work on a conscious level, too but not like "when you see the president, you want to hug him with a knife (flowers)".

I don´t call myself a professional (I visited courses, so I did not teach it to myself) but I`m pretty good at it, maybe it´s my voice. I just don´t do it anymore with people I just know, only friends. Staying out of trouble this way.

originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: Bedlam

General hypnosis, was the start of the discussion, but this stuff right here is the real meat of the discussion that I wanted to learn more about, long term torture type mind control like the MK Ultras, my curiosities lie in would they be long term sleeper cell effect, could this stuff wear off after a period of time. Or would their general facades of being a good person be part of the so called torture or mind control that effected them, thanks for bringing the conversation to this level.

They tried a lot of stuff. Very little of it worked well. Dr Cameron comes to mind. Milton Erickson had better luck but still, the people you can really influence aren't what you'd see as great spies. SRI was (is?) into this stuff pretty deeply for years in the 80s. And there was a new tack around 2002-2004 involving rather intensive cranial stimulation based on a bit of serendipitous research out of Trinity in Dublin that was picked up on and expanded. As long as you didn't mind the occasional burn and the odd bit of 'temporary' brain damage.

I know the Army in the early 80s was working with SRI to do something of the sort I think you're envisioning. It never came off as well as they would have liked, although it was a 'great idea'.

a reply to: verschickter

That statement you made about orange juice is rather disturbing, because back in high school I knew this weird kid that actually walked up to me and said something like that. I barely knew the kid but one day he walked up to me and said that he was an orange and that if anyone touched him he would turn into orange juice. I just laughed at him and assumed it had something to do with the drugs he was on. Nowadays that kid is a muscle bound steroid freak with some kind of anger towards the rest of the world. I avoid him like the plague, as I'm afraid this kid is going to snap one day.

originally posted by: verschickter
The squirt gun, however is another thing and I will not deny it´s possible. But not without being induced right before.

IIRC, the argument was raised that she would have known Gottlieb wouldn't have her actually kill someone. I never knew the man but I would not have bet on that. He did not sound like a very nice guy.

a reply to: DonVoigt
It´s an "insider" joke. Type the drug they used L.. and then orange juice into a searchmachine, you will get the drift.
I know it because I saw a commercial (translated to english)

"Since his ... trip Ingo A. thinks he´s a glas of orange juice. Now he panics he could spill himself."
-Drugs, only funny if you don´t take them by yourself.

a reply to: verschickter

MK Ultra is a con job. The masses are brainwashed from early childhood quite sufficiently by TV , movies and news, sports, public school and church. Let alone peer pressure and family.

The worst crimes aren't committed by robot zombies produced by secret government programs, they are committed by Patriots who volunteer with eyes wide open. Fervent nationalists, prideful minions wiling to go to any lengths to defend the flag, god and country.

Its you been sold all that secret mind control makes the best warriors and assassins crap.

By the by some are completely credulous when it comes to hypnosis sessions. We used to have hypnotists come to our school and make kids do crazy stuff with little more than some color wheels and power of suggestion. Thats how easy it is to manipulate others.

a reply to: DonVoigt

Oh, thats not how it came across the first time.

originally posted by: DonVoigt
a reply to: intrptr

This is one of the things I've been witnessing lately, people in positions of high power, behaving in a manner that is polar opposite of what would be considered the norm or the way they have behaved in the past. Things like that make me think to myself, what I'm the world is controlling these people to make them do that?

Servitude, slavishness. They been promised something or will do anything for money, power, acceptance by their "mentors".

a reply to: verschickter

I understand what drug you were talking about, back in high school we were aware of what the kid was doing, his t-shirts made it quite obvious

a reply to: intrptr

Understood, that's why I made myself clear, like I said my humor isn't always obvious

a reply to: Bedlam

Read the books, one flew over the cuckoos nest and electric koolaid acid test?