Islam Religion of Peace!

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posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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BTW; There may be violent passages in the Bible; I simply am unaware of them. I don't have a bible on hand to read since I am agnostic and would like to know where I can download one (preferably in .PDF format for easy search).

Since it seems that it is primarily followers of Islam who have a penchant for mass murder, and justify their actions with their religion, I have taken the time to read through the Qur'an and feel very comfortable about the inputs I've made in this and other threads regarding this topic.




posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
BTW; There may be violent passages in the Bible; I simply am unaware of them. I don't have a bible on hand to read since I am agnostic and would like to know where I can download one (preferably in .PDF format for easy search).

Since it seems that it is primarily followers of Islam who have a penchant for mass murder, and justify their actions with their religion, I have taken the time to read through the Qur'an and feel very comfortable about the inputs I've made in this and other threads regarding this topic.


The first terrorist incident involves Muhammad's command to his followers to "kill any Jew who comes under your power".



"From Guillaume, op cit, page 369:

"The apostle said, "Kill any Jew who falls into your power." Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?' Muhayyisa answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.'"

Islams "roots" are in violence and a "con" man called Mohamed.

Mohamed and Violence



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 01:56 PM
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Here is a thread I started awhile ago that fits with this topic:

politics.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Dr. Horacid

Is it OK to kill men women and Childern of unbelievers if it is done for the "right" God?




Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7


The list goes on and on where YOUR God tell his subjects to slaughter those that dont believe.

I have asked you this question on a couple other threads, I am sure you just overlooked it.

But I repeat the question

Is it OK to slaughter men, women and children without mercy as long as it is done for the "right" God? Is it only wrong when the "wrong" God says to do it?

I thought this question good enough for its ownb thread instead of Hi-Jacking this one please reply here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 24-1-2005 by Amuk]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
Dr. Horacid

Is it OK to kill men women and Childern of unbelievers if it is done for the "right" God?




Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7


The list goes on and on where YOUR God tell his subjects to slaughter those that dont believe.

I have asked you this question on a couple other threads, I am sure you just overlooked it.

But I repeat the question

Is it OK to slaughter men, women and children without mercy as long as it is done for the "right" God? Is it only wrong when the "wrong" God says to do it?


As difficult as it is to understand, YES, we should do as "GOD" says. He is the "GOD" of Abraham. All other gods flow from Satan the great deceiver. Satan is confusion.

Is this direct enough?



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
As difficult as it is to understand, YES, we should do as "GOD" says. He is the "GOD" of Abraham. All other gods flow from Satan the great deceiver. Satan is confusion.

Is this direct enough?


I started a whole thread just for this would you care to defend your position there. Its a little off topic to stay on this one. But I would LOVE to debate this issue.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
Dr. Horacid

Is it OK to kill men women and Childern of unbelievers if it is done for the "right" God?




Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7


The list goes on and on where YOUR God tell his subjects to slaughter those that dont believe.

I have asked you this question on a couple other threads, I am sure you just overlooked it.

But I repeat the question

Is it OK to slaughter men, women and children without mercy as long as it is done for the "right" God? Is it only wrong when the "wrong" God says to do it?

I thought this question good enough for its ownb thread instead of Hi-Jacking this one please reply here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 24-1-2005 by Amuk]


Whew, scary stuff in your Bible quotes, Amuk. Which goes to my view that it seems that fundamentalists of just about any religion can be very dangerous to their neighbors. It just so happens that, Christian fundamentalists have lost their absolute political power over the last several hundered to 1,000 years. We got the through the inquisition witch trials, etc. only to be confronted with a new batch of people determined to set the world back to the way it was around 750 AD. Can there also be a 'muslim reformation' that comes along to break the power of that religion's elite and powerful?



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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No man can claim a Holy War, God himself can. In the Bible speaks of wars. I do question all religions, even my own-Roman Catholic. I do not want to see a child die, a woman raped for pleasure, nor have a man killed. Good vs evil has been upon this planet for a very long time as men struggle of the concept of who he is, and the women also are part of this struggle to understand themselves as well. It does not help when liberals seek truth written by men, where does their truth lie? Within us all is a knowledge that has been there all along, us. People lose faith is certain as the path of history comes and goes. My mother died of lung cancer a few years ago and two days before she was to be taken away, she saw the angles. When I held her hand as she passed on later, time had no meaning. It was not the shock that consumed me but what I felt was the spirit of my mother and the angles reassuring me that it will be ok. Hope is a word that filiters the high energy we need to be in life, prayers are good to the soul, hate is swept away to be engulf into the light. The teaching of my mother will always be with me, her love is a symbol of the Lord's love and the strength of Jesus Christ himself who carries those in time of need. Jesus will lead the battle with the Father of a Holy War this world has never seen. In this time, now, do not worry of the future because we can not stop it from happening, it must full fill God's Prophecy, not man's time line. We are all brothers and sisters, I just so happen to believe that human species do not consent to the Lords wishes have gotton out of hand to long. We fight for those who need our help, in the face of those who would do nothing, and those who call A Holy War, are false bearers of the twist truth. Do we just stay home and let our family across the globe starve, beat, killed, and treated as unthinkable situations? Turn your blind eye then, I know who I am. We are all children of Holy Spirit, some are lost and wine because they can not find their way. Are you looking in the right place?
Defend those who have love in thier hearts, the wicked mock God as they wish, you will not see his coming.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I am a redneck too!



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
[ Can there also be a 'muslim reformation' that comes along to break the power of that religion's elite and powerful?


That is what is needed. They have to step up themselves and shout down the fanatics much as Christians have.



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by centurion1211
[ Can there also be a 'muslim reformation' that comes along to break the power of that religion's elite and powerful?


That is what is needed. They have to step up themselves and shout down the fanatics much as Christians have.


How can Islam be reformed without rewriting the Qur'an?



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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It is rather funny that some people here actually believe what they are saying... pick up a book and read it...
islam is much closer to christianity than judiasm...
muslims even believe in jesus (as a valid prophet)
the problem begins when many of islamic core beliefs were written while they were at war... and needed religious scripture to back their faith driven battles...
The christians did the same thing... but later backed away from many of those scriptures... even going so far as to remove some fromt he contemporary bible. If you would have seen the "bible" of 500ad... you would think we were crazy...

are islamic fundamentalists right when they advocate war or violence?... of course not...in that way, those certain few are ignorant of their own history as well as the true meaning of the Quran...



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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HEY ppls... some very interesting quotes and stuff coming up here...

The stuff you guys are putting on is really impressive... though im pretty certain it didnt come from the Quoran. HMMM,, then again... who knows what the real Quoran does contain???

Well... First of all.. for DrHoracid, the quotes you put up as from the Quoran, i have serious doubts they are authentic... but then again,, im probably biased! i am a muslim!

lol, that is true, and it would just be too stupid to tell you that the stuff you got is never mentioned anywhere in the Quoran, cause you wouldnt believe me.. so you see, i face a problem. I would like to convince you of my point of view, and yet, i cannnot prove my own authenticity!

So,, what im gonna say is the following.. just try to make sure that you get the Quoran quotes from the Quoran itself, not from any kinda site,, cause you have now idea what kind of crap is said out there, besides, loads and loads of unofficial prints exist all over the world. The ONLY quoran that is verified to all arab countries is the one with the Saudi Arabian Press Stamp on the back.

Additionally, i would like to add that i am not saudi arabian for that matter, i am egyptian. However...

That stuff DrHovacid mentioned about killing jews.. well, im going to tell you a small story mentioned in the Quoran, one they teach 3rd grade kids here in school. It goes that... the profit had this jew nighbour.. and everyday, that nighbour would throw out his trash in front of muhamed's door. Though he had asked him many times not to do so, the jew stil did. Till one day, there was no rubbish on muhamed's doorstep, and that followed for a couple of days. So muhamed asked his friends to go with him to visit his jew nighbour, but they told him that the nighbour had never been kind to him, so why should he be kind to him? muhamed replied that you should always start the good deed (or something close to that!
) so they went and visited, and found that the jew was infact sick, that was why he wasnt throwing the trash! After that visit, the jew stopped throwing trash infront of muhamed's door.

Now,, would you still believe a quote that said "kill all jews"!!!!!!!



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 06:20 PM
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I am very intrested in your imput here so please contibute. The data I post is based, to the best of my knowledge, from the koran. This "stamp" you speak of is intresting. I do know there ar many "versions" of the koran. So please if you can find the quotes I have posted and dispute them with fact from "your" version.

There is much discussion here about the Christian bible being of "peace" but that too is wrong. Peace and love is but part of the equation. The other parts include following the ten commandments and believeing Christ was the son of god and salvation is through him alone. He died and arose again. The koran teaches otherwise.......

[edit on 24-1-2005 by DrHoracid]



posted on Jan, 24 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Ya know, one moldy old work of fiction written by one set of ancent barbarians is about as good as any other old moldy work of fiction written by a different set of ancent barbarians.

People on both sides of this should understand something. It's not what's in written in your dusty books that matters. It's what you do or allow yourself to be made to do because of it.

I don't care who wrote them, words are not "Holy". Actions are. Which religion is doing all the killing in this century? Which religion will not evolve and adapt to this century? Which relgion gives birth to conflict, war wherever it spreads?

I'm sorry. No, if a Religion is to be judged by the behavior of it's supposedly most devout participants, Islam does not seem to be a religion of Peace.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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Well... if you believe the religion of more than 1.5 billion people should be judged completely and accurately by the actions of a handfull of terrorists and extremists, then something has gotta be wrong! The only reason we compare and contrast religions by the words of their books, is because these words dictate the proper and correct way to follow this religion.

I can be a christian serial killer.. does that mean the entire christian population are mass murderers?? no, because the teachings of christianity state otherwise.

Frankly, i see what's happening now as a pretty close repeat of the crusades some centuries back. A bunch of thugs attacked several different countires, killing women and children, under the cloak of religion. Did christianity tell them to do so? nope, and yet they claimed it was the call of god. Do their actions reflect upon the entire christian population? again, the answer is no.

That said, i would like to mention some quotes for DrHovacid, and these i'm getting straight off the quoran which i got, so there's little room for error...

This is from a passage called "Al Bakara", section 135 to 136:

" He (god) said may they be jew or christian, they are the followers of Abraham god bless him and hence the followers of god.. To Believe you must believe in god and believe in what has be bestowed upon you (the quoran) and what has been bestowed upon Abraham, Ismail, Is-hak and Yaakoob... (different profits) and what has been bestowed upon moses and jesus and everything that has been revealed to the profits from their god. You must not differentiate between the profits and belive in their one and only god."

This is a passage i translated, from arabic to english, so the meanings might not be 100% fluent, but i turst u'll get the meanings.

I keep on writting different examples forever, so i;m just puttin that on and if u wanna ask bout any more details or texts concerning certain issues or principles, just post!




posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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There are no religions of peace.

All religions have led to its believers perpetrating violence, pain, and murder since day one. More death and suffering have spawned from religion than anything in the history of mankind. And this will continue until people stop needing religion as an emotional shield protecting their psyche’s from life’s hard facts and difficult questions.

Religion = Death and suffering. Period.

And that includes Islam.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid

Is there really anything else to say here?



Quite a bit, I think.

For every "religion of peace" ironic post you can come up with for Islam, I can come up with an equal one for Christianity.

Take, for example, these fine Christians who set off bombs and terrorize people (you may not remember them, but I certainly do):
www.fas.org...

And this one, where Protestants are trying to storm into Catholic areas and intimidate them:
archives.cnn.com...

And peaceful Christians killing 600 people:
www.cesnur.org...

And of course let's not forget the Lord's Resistance Army that goes around killing and kidnapping children in the name of Christianity (no, not making this up.)

These are the same kinds of CHRISTIANS as the Muslims you portray. So the "peaceful Christian religion" can be tarred with the same kind of brush and just as often as the "peaceful Muslim religion."


NB: I stopped with three examples. I can easily find a hundred or more current examples.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by riddle930


This is from a passage called "Al Bakara", section 135 to 136:

" He (god) said may they be jew or christian, they are the followers of Abraham god bless him and hence the followers of god.. To Believe you must believe in god and believe in what has be bestowed upon you (the quoran) and what has been bestowed upon Abraham, Ismail, Is-hak and Yaakoob... (different profits) and what has been bestowed upon moses and jesus and everything that has been revealed to the profits from their god. You must not differentiate between the profits and belive in their one and only god."

This is a passage i translated, from arabic to english, so the meanings might not be 100% fluent, but i turst u'll get the meanings.



OK Riddle930;

How do you explain this little nugget (from sura 5; section 51):

5:51. O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

This is only a single sample from several passages that describe those who don't follow Islam (Allah) are idolators/apostates and therefore should either be forced to pay a tax (Jizya) or killed.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Here is what the Pikhtal translation says regarding Sura 2; 135

2:135. And they say: Be Jews or Christians, then ye will be rightly guided. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Nay, but (we follow) the religion of Abraham, the upright, and he was not of the idolaters.

...will be rightly guided: your belief will be corrected

...Nay but (we follow)... We don't need correction as we are followers of the religion of Abraham (Islam)...



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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very intereting stuff you got there Freedom_for_sum..

the translation you got for sura 2 - 135 is actually more accurate, however, as the Quoran is originally written in arabic, exact translation can often lead to a slight change in meaning. Even when read in arabic, the Quoran requires a very high mastering of the language to correctly interpret it.

I do not claim i have the required skill in arabic, although it is my mother tongue! however, i do my readings.

I got (for the sake of this argument!) a copy of the original saudi arabian explanation of the Quoran, and would like to demonstrate to you the potential problems that can arise from literal translation.

www.Islam.com is supposedly a trusted source! Infact, thats the first place i looked when u told me bout the passage from sura 5 - 51. Frankly, i was amazed at the translation they had, they had as translation:

"51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."

That really got me thinking... so i went back to the Saudi arabian explanation... and they had something slightly different...

"O those who believe, do not take the jews and christians as allies OVER YOUR OWN PEOPLE, that is because they do not have your best interests in mind. For jews support jews, and christians support christians, and hence, you should also start supporting each other (other muslims). And whoever allies with them WILL INEVITABLY BE AFFECTED AND BIASED BY THEIR JUDGEMENT, and hence will lose track of your (the muslims) best interests, and will eventually become one of them. God does not guide those who are biased and unjust."

You see.. to me,, this makes a bit more sense, and hopefully it will do to you too. If your interested, the main problem sprouted from the correct translation of the arabic word " Awlia'a ". The online translations put it up as "friends and protectors" but it actually means.. in this context.. 'allies'.

Hence, it makes perfect sense that god tells muslims not to take jews and christians as their allies, for if you recall, at the time,, everyone was at was with everyone else, so such a statement makes but perfect sense... AT THE TIME.

This is another basic problem. Extremists tend to forget that such statements were provided for a people at war, to guide their survival, and so they do not necessarily apply literally today!

Anyways... keep em coming glad to answer any more questions





[edit on 25-1-2005 by riddle930]




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