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Cop shoots and kills 73 year old grandmother during police shoot/dont shoot demonstration

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posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 05:49 PM
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i couldn't even watch that whole video of the dog on this guy, that was horrible. this cop just needs to be taken out back, and you know!! why do we keep letting these types of people get employed by departments.




posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 05:55 PM
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Ok, if we had a demo and I accidentally shot a cop, a cop's wife or kid or a judge or prosecutor, what would I be charged with and how fast would I end up behind bars, again?

Or would I get time off with pay?



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: ware2010
its negligence for sure, but you cant blame all of them, it was a accident that could have been avoided easily, they make sleeves that go in a revolver so you can not load live rounds, only blanks, you guys in the top of the replies are missing a lot of the facts.. and the OP is not 100% accurate either..


well why don't you fill us in then oh wise owl? since you obviously know something we don't? please tell us these facts we're missing, and then please take time to let us know why the OP isn't 100% accurate either?



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 06:26 PM
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originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
Can you imagine if this poor woman and child had been black?

Then this actual instance of improper use of deadly force really would have "mattered" and received the media attention it deserves.


What woman and child are you referring to??? I read nothing about a child...wtf??



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 06:36 PM
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Many of you posters on here are quite pathetic in both your expectations of every training incident running perfectly and apparently in your understanding of training with firearms and blank rounds.

First, as tragic and saddening as this is, this appears to truly have been an accidental shooting and nothing more. Yes, it screams of negligence on the part of the training officer who was in charge of loading and checking everything, but to flat out state that this was intentional or done with malicious intent in mind is quite ignorant at best and flat-out irresponsible and fabricated conjecture at worse. These types of responses to incidents like these really need to stop.

I have been in the military, and it's quite well known that training accidents can and do happen, as terrible as it is. But that comes with the territory when you have a dangerous job and you have to train for it. Yes, demonstrations for civilians are slightly different--I fully understand that--but those of you asking why blanks must be used instead of completely different guns obviously don't understand things (for starters, you always train with your actual weapon, so using blanks makes sense in your own actual weapon...not to mention the cost of getting special guns solely for use in demonstrations).

Again, I want to reiterate that I have zero tolerance for these types of accidents, but I also live in reality and understand that accidents can and do happen, that they sometimes result in the death of someone. Whomever was responsible for overseeing this demonstration, IMO, is culpable and really should be removed from their job handling deadly weapons.

BUT, this appears to have been a tragic accident and nothing more. Avoidable, yes, but an accident nonetheless.

That said, I wouldn't be willing to argue that a charge of negligent homicide isn't appropriate.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: snowspirit

I was always taught that too. Even BB guns...my cousin was goofing around with his brother one day and snatched his rifle away and aimed it at him, being stupid. Well, the thing went off at almost point blank range and he's had a pellet under his skin embedded in the lower rim of the eye socket ever since. 1/2" higher and he'd be sporting a glass eye instead.

I cannot even begin to fathom why, if the demonstration was inclusive of aiming a real gun at another human being, there were any live rounds in the immediate area to begin with.

It seems that a number of safety measures were disregarded here. Didn't anyone learn anything from the demonstration at a school where a cop shot himself in the leg?? Mere feet from the students?? I am just floored.

Interesting you mention Brandon Lee...he was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the OP. Such a tragic waste of life. He was such a beautiful soul.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Is it really necessary to call people "pathetic" for questioning something? The automatic assumptions about motive or intent, suggesting excessive force, etc., are very Chicken Little, I'll grant you that, but please give the rest of us a break for simply trying to understand how something like this could have happened...and for being human and feeling anger and outrage that it did, OK?

I have career law enforcement on both sides of my family who are just as shocked and uncomprehending right now as anyone here, so the concerns and outrage are not just coming from people who don't have prior experience or intimate knowledge of the way things work. Perhaps things are different for each individual department regarding gun safety too...we do not all hail from the same state here...or even the same country. We're just trying to understand, ya know?

I agree with you at this point, that it was an accident. And accidents do happen and they do kill people. But this was 100% preventable, and that needs to be addressed.

Things like common sense cannot be taught, but safety protocol most certainly can and is...and this guy is not a rookie. So if he was the one who loaded the weapon and did not observe safety measures, he was negligent. And, given the video footage with the dog, which only highlights his disregard for protocol, he'll be lucky to get away with simply losing his badge. Which, in my opinion, would probably be a very good thing all the way around.

One thing that I don't get...maybe you'll be able to answer this...I don't know what kind of gun he had, but I've fired a .45 five-round revolver before, which despite it being bigger than my whole face had a surprisingly lighter recoil than I thought it would...but I most definitely felt it. Now, I am a small woman and do not shoot on a routine basis, so perhaps a seasoned shooter who is stronger wouldn't have felt that...I don't know. But he fired multiple shots at her, according to the witness.

Now, some people have mentioned the recoil and that he could have possibly kept shooting because he didn't feel it at first. So...does that mean when blanks are fired there is no recoil? Because, whenever I've shot, I've felt that almost instantly...which brings me to another question: how could multiple shots have been fired before he felt the recoil? Is there a delay with some weapons?

I am trying to understand how he could have shot multiple rounds at this lady by accident. I can understand the first one. But why did he keep shooting? That is the one thing that just doesn't sit right with me, so hopefully you...or someone...can shed some light on that.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: imsoconfused

I can't even finish watching this video. What a disgrace of a human being.

He needs to be in prison for manslaughter.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen




I am trying to understand how he could have shot multiple rounds at this lady by accident. I can understand the first one. But why did he keep shooting? That is the one thing that just doesn't sit right with me, so hopefully you...or someone...can shed some light on that.


In my opinion, and according to the OP video, the guy was high on an adrenaline rush, having fun playing a "bad guy". He wanted to scare the bejeebers out of the audience by "killing" the lady acting as a police officer, in order to convince his audience, justify if you will, why police use deadly force.
edit on 12-8-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 08:25 PM
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maybe we should train our civilians the same lessons they learn in boot camp mainly.....
never, ever, volunteer for anything!!!

god, I hope the little lady wasn't their with her grandkids!!!



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

sorry,but what civilian demonstration uses live rounds... to demonstrate what exactly. and how many shots were fired ' accidentally' .
of course this man will be painted a monster, who would in this context use live rounds. the time place the people involved.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

That being said how do you feel about the dog attack ?



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

BS, this is gross negligence a thousand fold. This idiot did so many things wrong it's incomprehensible. Did he mean to kill her? No, but with all the mistakes he made, it was a murder waiting to happen. His actions were inexcusable and to top it off he shot her more than once? Good gawd, you really can't fix stupid can ya.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 09:28 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: SlapMonkey

That being said how do you feel about the dog attack ?


He should've been put in jail and the dog should've been put to sleep... mine would have been for sure.

I also think it makes him the perfect target for a set up, especially considering the purpose of the demonstrations that he had been conducting for 2 years without a hitch.




edit on 12-8-2016 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: mtnshredder

He's been practicing Mozambiques at home in the mirror.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 10:04 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen

He probably won't lose his job, or be prosecuted. The union will circle the wagons, there will be press conferences wherein they will state how devastated the cop is, if the woman had so much as a ticket it will be brought up that she may have deserved it, or caused it, and the question will be asked if you would rather have a crack dealer respond to your next emergency.

It will be pointed out what an amazing cop he is. And that he is currently under a huge amount of pressure due to people shooting cops, BLM, open carriers, and people with cameras, that this was THEIR fault, and he just wants to go home at the end of his shift.

They will investigate themselves, recommend no action, the DA will accept their decision with no further investigation, he will get a promotion and life will go on.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: tigertatzen

Oh, on the multiple shot thing, he probably sits around practicing Mozambiqing his next foe. So now he's got this muscle memory to shoot everyone two shots center mass and one to the head.

Which isn't so bad I suppose if you're a soldier but it seems sort of chancey for a peace officer.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: windword

I didn't see that there was actual video footage of the shooting...I'm not sure I can watch that.

The multiple shot thing bothers me, but since you mentioned the roles they were playing, that's bothering me too. If he was the perp and she was the cop, and he was demonstrating why police might use deadly force, why wasn't she the one with the gun?

It would make sense the other way around, and maybe it's simply a communication error and got reported wrong, but it doesn't ring true the way it's being described. Hopefully it'll become clear once more information is released.

I'm not certain if you are being derisive about the deadly force thing, and my apologies if I read it wrong, but the reality is that sometimes it becomes necessary. Words like "convince" and "justify" are disturbing, because they seem to imply within this context that it is not necessary at all and therefore people have to be convinced that it is.

I am just as outraged as everyone else over all of these deaths, but disarming our LEO's is not a viable solution. The bad guys will still have guns, and they will still do home invasions, and murder, and rape to innocent people.

If someone is in my home trying to kill me and I call 911, when the cops show up unarmed, not only is the assailant going to kill me, but likely the cops as well. If that were to become a reality, a whole lot of innocent people out there would suffer for it.

The only way to impose a nationwide, consistent standard for use of force is for the federal government to step in and regulate law enforcement across the board...and that is not what anyone wants. But if we cannot get it together and find a peaceable solution to the conflict, that is exactly what will happen.



posted on Aug, 12 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: tigertatzen

He probably won't lose his job, or be prosecuted. The union will circle the wagons, there will be press conferences wherein they will state how devastated the cop is, if the woman had so much as a ticket it will be brought up that she may have deserved it, or caused it, and the question will be asked if you would rather have a crack dealer respond to your next emergency.

It will be pointed out what an amazing cop he is. And that he is currently under a huge amount of pressure due to people shooting cops, BLM, open carriers, and people with cameras, that this was THEIR fault, and he just wants to go home at the end of his shift.

They will investigate themselves, recommend no action, the DA will accept their decision with no further investigation, he will get a promotion and life will go on.


How can you even begin to compare this to any other case you have ever heard of?

Don't even bother answering, the question was a rhetorical one.


(post by tadaman removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

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