The GOPs Trump dilemma

I had a long drive today, spent 3 hours listening to Hannity off and on and the other part of the 3 hours on NPR (sidenote, Hannity has A LOT of commercials these days). I was stunned by what Hannity was saying, because he basically went on a 3 hour rant blaming #NeverTrump people or even Republicans who just don't buy into this particular brand of crazy for getting Hillary elected. It was a 3 hour speech on how Trump has already lost, and how it's all the Republicans fault. None of it is Trumps fault for being so out there... it's the fault of the people who saw not voting as a better alternative.

originally posted by: csalabama
His numbers are back up. Our news media is really in the tank for Hillary. Honestly, this election is a choice betwen a crook and a novice. Trump has realized that Romney lost not because of a bad campaign, but because the choice was already made. If you think you live in a democracy, you are dreaming of a bygone time. Your vote does not matter as you are outnumbered. Obama learned and will create a foundation to make hundreds of millions.

Trump says the reason Romney lost was because of the evangelicals.

“Had you voted for Romney, it would have been much closer,” “You didn’t vote for Romney, the evangelicals. Religion didn’t get out and vote.”

originally posted by: Christosterone

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Who knows though with Hillary seemly going down daily in flames with emails health invesigations etc. Can a president be elected then do time...lol

Except Hillary isn't "going down daily in flames". Every controversy that comes out around Hillary seems to get drowned out by the latest idiocy from Trump.

The dinosaur media is making sure that every controversy that comes out around Hillary will be drowned out by the latest sound bite from Trump.

That is all on Trump. He does not have to say crazy stuff. So why does he keep doing it?

He keeps doing it right at the wrong time or wrong at the right time

Make you wonder if he does it on purpose eh?

OK , I've read so many of your posts I finally have to address them…
If I were guessing I'd say youre potentially in academia, perhaps the media…
Maybe a writer or some sort of on-air talent.... I don't know…
You are a good writer bright person and you often have intriguing posts…

However, I understand that your demographic typically falls under the umbrella of progressivism and you cannot fathom that anyone could diametrically oppose your point in view given [your perceived] unequivocal evidence to its in arguable TRUTH..

Unfortunately for the progressive, there is a set of people who do not subscribe to moral relativism and will NOT adhere to the tenants of liberalism and its sliding scale of morality...

For you, Donald trumps existence is in explicable…
This must be some joke…
It must be the unenlightened, unwashed masses of which you so effortlessly look down your nose upon who could not possibly understand the world as you do who are voting for him…
For only the lack of your rare, progressive mind and that of your enlightened social circle could such dimwitted people such as myself fear the prospect of the Clinton Dynasty reassuming control of this country and once again marching us into the pit of moral relativism and depravity...

Trump was never at the top of my list for a presidential candidate(Ben Carson) as I feel a person must be quick to logic and slow to anger to adequately preside over the greatest manifestation of the high west's evolution, The United States of America...
And he is undoubtedly a superior candidate to Hillary Clinton…

I can further assure you that while you think you are worldly and enlightened, there are many who are significantly more informed than u may judge them to be and while you scoff at our very existence, we are here for any candidate running against Hillary Clinton..

Donald Trump is not a joke and you will see that in the debates…

-Christosterone

I am retired Army. I was a life long member of the GOP until it started letting the nutters take over. I was even approached by the GOP about a political career. Something that was not in my life plan at the time. It did however give an interest in politics. Right now I am a Johnson voter. I would only vote Clinton if the election was looking close and my battle ground state was in the mix. That is not the case so I do not have to vote for the lesser of two evils.

For me Trump is easy to explain. We have seen his kind through out history. They rally up those left behind by the march capitalism and the evolution of modern economies. The less educated, unskilled labor who jobs can be done cheaper either by machines of workers in other nations. This is simply the reality of capitalism, while good for most their will always be those that lose out. Those people are angry, discontent and looking for somebody to blame and easy answers.

That is where Trump comes in. He blames he evil foreigner and says he will fix everything, do not worry how, just believe. And it works. At least at some levels. It will not work at a national level because those people are not the majority.

The worst part is that Trump lies to these people. He tells them things like he was against the Iraq war, against intervention in Libya. that he a good Christian, that that he cares about the little man. However we know from Trumps own words and actions none of that is true. The people that support him are the people he has always called losers for not being rich like him. And he has made lots of money taking advantage of those people. He is still doing it.

With Trump wavering on the debates i do not know if we will even get one. Clinton will role in their and use Trumps own words against him. She will bait him and he will react. And unless he sits down and has experts advise him about how the Government works, foreign affairs, economics etc. she is going to make his look like a fool.

The sad part is Trumps attitude about losing is like no big deal, i will be going back to a good life. A good life screwing over the same people he just promised the world to.

originally posted by: JAY1980

originally posted by: MrSpad
So why does he keep doing it?

To keep you all talking about it that's why.

And how is that working out for him? People calling you crazy is not a way to gain votes.

a reply to: kruphix

So a group of people that believe in smaller government, less taxes, and less corruption are "dumb"?

I went to one Tea Party meeting. The people there were far from dumb. The speaker was a Palestinian activist and doctor calling for world peace.

Half of the people in the room were prominent business people and community leaders.

Bunch of dumb dumbs.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: kruphix

All that talk of Ignorant and Smart makes me think you understand NEITHER ,much less how to measure who the Tea Party actually is.
The DNC hates the Tea Partiers INSTINCTIVELY and visa versa.
My I.Q. is 115 WHAT'S yours?

Hahaha. I think you double typed that first digit.

Trump supporters need to come to terms with the fact they've been tricked.

Trump was running for the hell of it, to see if his empty rhetoric could actually get him anywhere.

To his own shock he's realised there are a lot more Americans who are more interested in catchphrases than actual content and calibre.

He's now found himself in a position where he doesn't actually want to win because he has NO IDEA what to do, but his sheep seem to be ignoring this and he is looking for an escape route.

How embarrassing for Trump supporters. Trump's whole campaign turns out to be a "Just kidding" moment.

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: kruphix

All that talk of Ignorant and Smart makes me think you understand NEITHER ,much less how to measure who the Tea Party actually is.
The DNC hates the Tea Partiers INSTINCTIVELY and visa versa.
My I.Q. is 115 WHAT'S yours?

Hahaha. I think you double typed that first digit.

Trump supporters need to come to terms with the fact they've been tricked.

Trump was running for the hell of it, to see if his empty rhetoric could actually get him anywhere.

To his own shock he's realised there are a lot more Americans who are more interested in catchphrases than actual content and calibre.

He's now found himself in a position where he doesn't actually want to win because he has NO IDEA what to do, but his sheep seem to be ignoring this and he is looking for an escape route.

How embarrassing for Trump supporters. Trump's whole campaign turns out to be a "Just kidding" moment.

No he was contemplating running for a long time. He was just hoping someone else woils solve the problems. Reality is though I think he finally gave in to his ego thinking no one could so better than him. He's sincere on running no doubt but I question his ability to do thr job. He has some severe flaws in his character. I'm just trying to decide who's is worse his or Hillarys. Trump's ego is his worst enemy he tries to pretend he knows everything even when he's clueless. And then he says incredibly stupid things because in his mind his opinion superceeds all others. So are choices is between a crook and a megalomaniac. Trump neefs to take a long look at himself if he wants to win. And take the advice of people arounfd him if he does he will win. This is his race to lose.

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: MrSpad

The GOP has no one to blame but themselves. Trump is the end result of the GOP turning away from policy voters and running head long towards emotional voters.

This all started with Palin. The GOP made a desperate move with selecting Palin as McCain's running mate. They knew Obama probably couldn't be beat, they thought their only chance was putting a female on the ticket. Ironically, putting Palin on the ticket guaranteed an Obama win and started the GOP down a path that is ending with Trump as their nominee.

Palin is dumb, everyone can agree on that, even the GOP. The problem with dumb people is that they are hard to control...and they couldn't control the stupid things Palin kept saying. The reason this was a problem is because there are a lot of dumb people in our country, and they gravitated towards what Palin was saying. This was the first step in the GOP attracting non-traditional GOP voters. They weren't stealing them from the Democrats, they were just drawing out a lot of ignorant and angry people that most likely had always been Republican voters, but never had a voice in the party. With Palin, that changed...they had their voice.

Next came the Tea Party, and again the GOP embraced this movement and co-opted it from it's original intent. The Tea Party was the home all the angry, outspoken, but not very smart people were always looking for. It spawned the birthers, it shifted "immigration" from being a minor issue to one of the GOPs main issues, it created fear and anger towards Muslims and the middle east, and it gave the angry and the ignorant a larger voice in the GOP.

All this time, the GOP knew they had a problem...but they weren't sure how to handle it. They knew the large issue for the party was that they were becoming primarily the party of older white voters. Losing a large portion of the young voters, a good portion of the women voters, almost all black and latino voters, and even starting to lose the middle age voters. You could see the GOP trying to win over these groups, getting more women elected, getting some latinos elected, and shamelessly using the few black republicans as their token black friend. But they had let the loud angry members of the party get too much of a foothold, and they elected rather radical members into the house and the senate.

The GOP primary in 2012 was a complete bloodbath. They tore each other up so bad that the only one left on top was Romney, a plastic man who you really couldn't tear down because there wasn't much of substance. They gave Paul Ryan the VP nod to try to appease the growing segment of Tea Party supporters. However, Ryan was never a true representative of the Tea Party, he just catered to them when he saw they were gaining influence. Ryan was now trapped as well...either appease the crazies in the tea party...or actually make sane decisions. He still hasn't found out the correct way to do either.

This gave us the past 6 years of the GOP refusing to work with any democrats, shutting down and threatening to shut down the government anytime they don't get their way. Trying desperately to find a way to impeach Obama, search for his birth certificate like it was the holy grail, try to overturn the healthcare law that they knew they didn't have a chance of doing, blocking judge appointments, investigating everything Hillary Clinton does, and continue the angry rhetoric that gives the ignorant portion of the GOP a louder voice and more to scream about.

They have done nothing to promote policy or solutions over the past 6-8 years. They have elected people who's only goal is to try to fight against Obama instead of trying to improve the lives of their constituents. They have lost segments of their voting bloc due to them focusing more on these silly fabricated issues rather than work on real issues that would improve people's lives or focusing on traditional Republican principles. They are at a point where their primaries consist of McCarthyism type attacks...accusing opponents of not be "real" Republicans or not be Conservative enough.

This brings us to Trump and the GOP's dilemma with him. They created the environment where Trump will thrive with the current GOP voting bloc. However, that environment that they created is a very radical environment when compared to the entire nation and the entire voting population. They can't abandon him, because they are will be abandoning the very voters they have attracted over the past 8 years and they will feel betrayed. They can't support him, because it will only further create an environment where it will be extremely difficult for them to ever win another General Election. They are stuck in a situation where they will continue to do well with senate and house elections in certain areas of the country, but it will be hard for them to gain widespread acceptance anymore.

I don't know what they do from here. They either stay with what they have, concede the Presidency for the foreseeable future and just focus on the smaller elections. Or they take a stand, lose big in the next few elections but then grow back to the Republican party before this entire experiment that started with Palin.

TL;DR: The GOP has created the perfect environment for Trump, if they turn on him they will anger the voters that they themselves have riled up. If they don't turn on him, they will continue to get more and more extreme and not win a Presidential election in the near future.

What he(or she) said... Very well articulated indeed.

Personally I think Trump is a plant. Likely an unwitting one at that. I think it would be hard for anyone to argue that his ego is bigger that Trump tower. Just look at his responses over time to the estimates of his wealth by Forbes for instance. Recently it has come out that good ol Billy Clinton encouraged him to be more active in the GOP.

I don't think he is knowingly handing the presidency to Hillary but I do think they've played him like a fiddle. Right out of Machiavelli's playbook!

originally posted by: dragonridr

No he was contemplating running for a long time. He was just hoping someone else woils solve the problems. Reality is though I think he finally gave in to his ego thinking no one could so better than him. He's sincere on running no doubt but I question his ability to do thr job. He has some severe flaws in his character. I'm just trying to decide who's is worse his or Hillarys. Trump's ego is his worst enemy he tries to pretend he knows everything even when he's clueless. And then he says incredibly stupid things because in his mind his opinion superceeds all others. So are choices is between a crook and a megalomaniac. Trump neefs to take a long look at himself if he wants to win. And take the advice of people arounfd him if he does he will win. This is his race to lose.

Aww sweetie, keep telling yourself that.

He doesn't want to be president, he just wants to see if he could get the votes.

Trumps proving a point, all it takes is a few buzzwords to the right crowds and Americans lose all rationale thinking.

Calling his own speeches un-PC because he knows that will appeal to the wannabe-rebels, endless slander and rumour peddling (as seen on here) about Hillary gets him the parents-basement-conspiracy-"analysts" . Casual racism and vague promises about keeping your guns gets him the mostly southern, backwards and underlying racist states. Outrageous promises such as building walls and bombing isis gets him the violent "patriots" who don't understand the fall-out of such actions. Egotistical claims about business and money gets him the uneducated voters who don't see past the front... shows us your tax! Consistant comments about being self-funded and not needing donations (absolute BS) and hows he's not bought and paid for politician (again BS) gets him the vote from people just fed up of the system.

Oh he's a great talker, he's identified the easily manipulated areas of the public and targeted them, the ones who don't read past a headline. The ones who don't want to know about details or if anything Trump has said is either true or possible. These are the exact people that ATS has historical been separated from because here on ATS we are supposed to look past the rhetoric and find the truth.

a reply to: MrSpad

Yes. And even if Trump should win, the future is still bleak. Trump sells dreams. It is like taking home a product a salesman convinced you to buy, but when you get it home, you realize that the product won't work for you the way it was described it would. As this article says, Trump is nothing but a quick fix .... of heroin.

Opioid of the Masses

To many, Donald Trump feels good, but he can’t fix America’s growing social and cultural crisis, and the eventual comedown will be harsh. ...

Trump brings power to those who hate their lack of it, and his message is tonic to communities that have felt nothing but decline for decades. ...

Yet a common thread among Trump’s faithful, even among those whose individual circumstances remain unspoiled, is that they hail from broken communities. These are places where good jobs are impossible to come by. Where people have lost their faith and abandoned the churches of their parents and grandparents. Where the death rates of poor white people go up even as the death rates of all other groups go down. Where too many young people spend their days stoned instead of working and learning.....

There is no group of people hurtling more quickly to social decay. No group of people fears the future more, dies with such frequency from heroin, and exposes its children to such significant domestic chaos. Not long ago, a teacher who works with at-risk youth in my hometown told me, “We’re expected to be shepherds to these children, but they’re all raised by wolves.” And those wolves are here—not coming in from Mexico, not prowling the halls of power in Washington or Wall Street—but here in ordinary American communities and families and homes....

The great tragedy is that many of the problems Trump identifies are real, and so many of the hurts he exploits demand serious thought and measured action—from governments, yes, but also from community leaders and individuals. Yet so long as people rely on that quick high, so long as wolves point their fingers at everyone but themselves, the nation delays a necessary reckoning. There is no self-reflection in the midst of a false euphoria. Trump is cultural heroin. He makes some feel better for a bit. But he cannot fix what ails them, and one day they’ll realize it. ...

...when his supporters realize that even with a President Trump, their homes and families are still domestic war zones, their newspapers’ obituaries continue to fill with the names of people who died too soon, and their faith in the American Dream continues to falter. But it will come, and when it does, I hope Americans cast their gaze to those with the most power to address so many of these problems: each other. And then, perhaps the nation will trade the quick high of “Make America Great Again” for real medicine.

a reply to: SudoNim

I think you meant...

Oh she's a great talker, she's identified the easily manipulated areas of the public and targeted them, the ones who don't read past a headline. The ones who don't want to know about details or if anything Clinton has said is either true or possible. These are the exact people that ATS has historical been separated from because here on ATS we are supposed to look past the rhetoric and find the truth.

a reply to: SudoNim

So he spends 100 million to say 'gotcha' when he could have, if your theory is correct, given a few million to Hillary and stayed home? You are a special kind of dumb Sudo.

The only people saying it is collapsing is people who do not like him. Watch for the first debate and there will be multiple poll shifts before October. That is when the 'October Surprise' comes in.

They are all falling for it too...hanging themselves so that when the big deal hits about Hillary and Trump is clean there will be collapse.

For nothing...

a reply to: SudoNim

What makes you think that 's not how I'm voting?
I am taking a gut move.
I KNOW HE doesn't know about much ,but HE knows how to hire THE BEST TALENT for a cabinet to do as he wants.
That is what I want to see.
The digits is correctamundo,as is my gut.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7

I KNOW HE doesn't know about much ,but HE knows how to hire THE BEST TALENT for a cabinet to do as he wants.
That is what I want to see.

If the folks selected as his economic advisors are an indication of Trump's idea of "the best talent", you may be saddened by his candidate picks.

Donald Trump's new team of billionaire advisers could threaten his populist message

The list includes strikingly few academic policy experts, usually the bread-and-butter of campaign policy teams.

Trump's outsider crew at times conflicts with his message of economic populism. He has painted Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton as the candidate of Wall Street, but his team is filled with hedge fund managers, bankers and real estate speculators. Hedge fund manager John Paulson made a fortune betting against the U.S. housing bubble before the financial crisis.

What links Donald Trump's Economy Team

Those nine are united by more than their wealth. On Wall Street, they are outsiders, known for audacious bets and, sometimes, spectacular flameouts. Five of them are among Mr. Trump’s biggest donors, contributing a total of $1.7 million in recent months to his campaign’s joint fundraising efforts with the Republican Party.

One sign of the overlapping interests of his advisers: a number of them have done business with each other.

This just sounds like rich guys forming policy to enrich themselves, IMO.
YMMV

a reply to: Olivine

Then he'll fire them if they aren't into his plan.
If he isn't a nationalist then he's about to be a very lonely man.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Olivine

Then he'll fire them if they aren't into his plan.
If he isn't a nationalist then he's about to be a very lonely man.

So by your logic, the people who donate the most to him, are the best people for the job? Because that's what he's doing.

a reply to: Aazadan

If he isn't a nationalist and goes for himself he won't do a thing.
He'll have to shift his group.
If they want a trade team I couldn't ASK for better than businessmen.
WE shall see.
It's a risk we MUST take, to stop a nasty from taking over the country.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Isn't that just trading one master for another? We can elect people to government, but when we hand that power over to influential businessmen, we can't vote that power to someone else when we grow tired of them.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: SudoNim

So he spends 100 million to say 'gotcha' when he could have, if your theory is correct, given a few million to Hillary and stayed home? You are a special kind of dumb Sudo.

The only people saying it is collapsing is people who do not like him. Watch for the first debate and there will be multiple poll shifts before October. That is when the 'October Surprise' comes in.

They are all falling for it too...hanging themselves so that when the big deal hits about Hillary and Trump is clean there will be collapse.

For nothing...

Trump is now saying things are not going well. That he needs help in battle ground states, that he might be on vacation in 90 days, that if he loses no big deal he has a good life to back to. Are you saying Trump is just pretending? And if he is going to be so great in the debates why is taking about maybe not having them? You seem much more confident than Trump does which seems like it is backwards.

a reply to: Aazadan

This one isn't a lawyer,higher species of mammal.