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posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 08:44 PM
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Just curious if science has ever found a way to effect or manipulate space other than matter? For instance if I take a ballon and fill it with helium, the area where the balloon and helium are in will no longer have Oxygen or air in it.

Can we move space, bend it, put a bubble in it? If we can then what is in its place? Seems like if something can be bent then it must have some sustenance to it? There must be some part of matter that touches the fabric of space at some level?

If you can make a hollow spot in the center of the earth what would gravity be like in there? Would you be pulled outward toward the walls of the hollow or float in the middle? Or even if hollow just be squashed in the center?
edit on 5-8-2016 by Xeven because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:14 PM
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Interesting questions.
Theoretical answer : Gravity . Think Black Hole




posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: Xeven

Mass warps space through gravitation or relative velocity (there's no absolute reference point). John Archibald Wheeler famously put it that "Mass tells space-time how to curve, and space-time tells mass how to move."

White-Juday-warp-field interferometer experiment, Wikipedia page



Also, in the Earth's core scenario, you'd float as all the forces would oppose in balance. If you moved closer to a wall, however, you'd not be on centre anymore, you'd disturb the balance and you'd get a slight attraction to the nearest wall.

The real problem, of course, is keeping the 5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons of the Earth from melting/crushing the walls of your hollow and you inside (it could cause quite a headache)!

edit on 5/8/2016 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: Xeven

Space is just that, space. As close to nothingness as you can get.

It is not dense, so there would be barely anything to move.

As per your thought experiment.. If you were truly at the center of the earth, you would be at zero G, basically, but you would be pulled back and forth between the earth and suns center of gravity, as well as the moon, other planets, etc. Depending on the size of the hypothetical hollowed out point.

Either way you'd die.

It's all relative
but great questions nonetheless.
edit on 5-8-2016 by rockintitz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:31 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Xeven

White-Juday-warp-field interferometer experiment, Wikipedia page



Also, in the Earth's core scenario, you'd float as all the forces would oppose in balance. If you moved closer to a wall, however, you'd not be on centre anymore, you'd disturb the balance and you'd get a slight attraction to the nearest wall.

So someone on the surface would be pulled toward me and if I closer to a wall I would be pulled toward that person. So in such a scenario it would be reverse gravity? So there would be a location between myself and the person on the surface that would be zero gravity like a LaGrange point or some such. That would make for some crazy space bending.



posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:33 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog
Interesting questions.
Theoretical answer : Gravity . Think Black Hole



So gravity is basically the result of interaction between space and matter? Space is really gravity if you are matter?



posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:36 PM
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originally posted by: Xeven
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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Xeven

White-Juday-warp-field interferometer experiment, Wikipedia page



Also, in the Earth's core scenario, you'd float as all the forces would oppose in balance. If you moved closer to a wall, however, you'd not be on centre anymore, you'd disturb the balance and you'd get a slight attraction to the nearest wall.


So someone on the surface would be pulled toward me and if I closer to a wall I would be pulled toward that person. So in such a scenario it would be reverse gravity? So there would be a location between myself and the person on the surface that would be zero gravity like a LaGrange point or some such. That would make for some crazy space bending.


Sorry, I edited my previous post to add content. Please review it.

The gravitational null point would be far closer to you. The mass of a person on the surface of the Earth would be inconsequential compared to the mass of the Earth underneath them.



posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: Xeven

originally posted by: Gothmog
Interesting questions.
Theoretical answer : Gravity . Think Black Hole



So gravity is basically the result of interaction between space and matter? Space is really gravity if you are matter?

Space and mass.



posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut

Exactly. As inconsequential as any gravitational pull you would feel with any person on the surface of the earth.

Less consequential if you compare the density of a human vs. iron/nickel.



posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:50 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Xeven
a

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Xeven

White-Juday-warp-field interferometer experiment, Wikipedia page



Also, in the Earth's core scenario, you'd float as all the forces would oppose in balance. If you moved closer to a wall, however, you'd not be on centre anymore, you'd disturb the balance and you'd get a slight attraction to the nearest wall.


Is there space at gravitational null points?

So someone on the surface would be pulled toward me and if I closer to a wall I would be pulled toward that person. So in such a scenario it would be reverse gravity? So there would be a location between myself and the person on the surface that would be zero gravity like a LaGrange point or some such. That would make for some crazy space bending.


Sorry, I edited my previous post to add content. Please review it.

The gravitational null point would be far closer to you. The mass of a person on the surface of the Earth would be inconsequential compared to the mass of the Earth underneath them.


Is there space at the null points?
edit on 5-8-2016 by Xeven because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:53 PM
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originally posted by: Xeven

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Xeven
a

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Xeven

White-Juday-warp-field interferometer experiment, Wikipedia page



Also, in the Earth's core scenario, you'd float as all the forces would oppose in balance. If you moved closer to a wall, however, you'd not be on centre anymore, you'd disturb the balance and you'd get a slight attraction to the nearest wall.


Is there space at gravitational null points?

So someone on the surface would be pulled toward me and if I closer to a wall I would be pulled toward that person. So in such a scenario it would be reverse gravity? So there would be a location between myself and the person on the surface that would be zero gravity like a LaGrange point or some such. That would make for some crazy space bending.


Sorry, I edited my previous post to add content. Please review it.

The gravitational null point would be far closer to you. The mass of a person on the surface of the Earth would be inconsequential compared to the mass of the Earth underneath them.


Is there space at the null points?


Yes, space pervades everything. The null points are where all forces cancel or where there are no forces at all (the same thing in a 'relativistic' world, actually).




posted on Aug, 5 2016 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: Xeven

I think what you may be suggesting from your title are theoretical Hyperspaces.

The linked Wikipedia article refers to a type of warp drive that creates a bubble in hyperspace and then travel becomes just the process of moving the junction point (which may be tiny) rather than the movement of the full mass of the object.

The idea is that you pop the object (spacecraft or whatever) into the hyperspace bubble, leaving only the slimmest of connection points back into this space and then you warp space around the connection point rather than around the whole object. Because the connection is small, the energy required to maintain the space warp is smaller.

Unfortunately this also usually requires things like negative energy, or some sort of exotic matter that only exists in theory, which we don't have.

edit on 5/8/2016 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2016 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

"Mass tells space-time how to curve, and space-time tells mass how to move."

But chr0naut doesn't einsteins E = mc2 tell us that mass is just another state of energy. If so, could we not view mass as folded or knotted spacetime in which gravity as a force doesn't really exist.


edit on 6-8-2016 by glend because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2016 @ 03:15 AM
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: chr0naut

"Mass tells space-time how to curve, and space-time tells mass how to move."

But chr0naut doesn't einsteins E = mc2 tell us that mass is just another state of energy. If so, could we not view mass as folded or knotted spacetime in which gravity as a force doesn't really exist.



Mass and energy are equivalent and interchangeable but energy can also be massless, as per the photon, which has momentum at c but has zero rest mass. So mass is only a particular case of energy, dependent upon relativistic effect.

In truth gravity doesn't necessarily have to exist as a thing of itself. It is an outcome of the way things are.

edit on 6/8/2016 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2016 @ 04:45 AM
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originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Xeven

Space is just that, space. As close to nothingness as you can get.

And yet, the absolute nothingness doesn't exist, and space is actually a "something" that can be bent, has some intrinsic energy, and can give rise to particles. In fact, the Big Bang and our whole existence could be due to false vaccum decaying to a lower energy state.

For the poster of this thread (and for everybody else), you might be interested in reading about the Casimir effect, which is a pushing force exerted by vaccum, thanks to quantum fluctuations of vacuum energy. In fact, I believe that the expansion of the universe is due to this effect.



Speaking of space and gravity, you must not forget the "time" component of space-time. Gravity not only bends space, but also slows the local time down. Standing on a very massive planet, you would age slower than the guy who lives on an asteroid.

As a bonus to all these tidbits of information, here's my video that illustrates how mass and gravity bends space - shown in 3D rather than with that lame and innacurate "trampoline" analogy:

www.youtube.com...

edit on 6-8-2016 by wildespace because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2016 @ 04:52 AM
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originally posted by: Xeven
If you can make a hollow spot in the center of the earth what would gravity be like in there? Would you be pulled outward toward the walls of the hollow or float in the middle? Or even if hollow just be squashed in the center?

That's another curious thing. At the centre of the Earth, gravity is effectively nullified because of all the mass around you, in every direction. You would literally float in zero-g.



posted on Aug, 6 2016 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: Xeven

Well if your really interested look into relativity. The first thing you learn is gravity doesn't exist. It's a fake force. Mass causes a distortion that we refer to as gravity. This is why Einstein said eveetching is relative. For example if I put you in an elevator and drop that elevator from a plane. You could not tell if you were in outer space or galling towards earth. The effects would be exactly the same you would be weightless. Now I could go into inertial frames and the comparisons between them but what Einstein discovered is that Gravity is a force of movement much like you breaking in a car and being pushed forward. Or accelating in a race car where you are pushed backwards.

As for space itself nothing there space is litterally just a distance between points in spacetime. In orderived to position anything g in our universe you need 4 points of refrence. You need three spatial points and one for time. What Einstein discovered is space deals with the time aspect more than anything else. Thr effect of time being slower around mass. So when discussing space your referring to time and how long an interaction takes which is relative to your position.
edit on 8/6/16 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2016 @ 05:36 AM
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originally posted by: wildespace

originally posted by: Xeven
If you can make a hollow spot in the center of the earth what would gravity be like in there? Would you be pulled outward toward the walls of the hollow or float in the middle? Or even if hollow just be squashed in the center?

That's another curious thing. At the centre of the Earth, gravity is effectively nullified because of all the mass around you, in every direction. You would literally float in zero-g.


There is no point in the earth with zero g. The earth itself is in motion and as such will always create a force see above. If you want to learn how this is possible I would suggest looking into geodesic and what they are. Everything in the universe follows a straight line if I throw a ball straight up it always travels forward even when it returns to me. From thr balls perspective it keeps moving forward. It just follows a curved path that returns it to me. But the curve is undetectable to the ball. Only from my position do I see the curve.
edit on 8/6/16 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2016 @ 06:03 AM
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a reply to: Xeven

Have you read about the Alcubierre warp drive yet?

It makes for an interesting thought experiment.



posted on Aug, 6 2016 @ 06:56 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Xeven
As for space itself nothing there space is litterally just a distance between points in spacetime.

Tell that to any theoretical physicist, and they'll be eager to prove you wrong. Space is a "something", it's a fabric that makes up our universe and has properties, such as force fields, quantum fluctuations, and a whole plethora of other things.

Looks like my first post in this thread has completely gone you by.



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