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The father of a Benghazi victim destroys CNN's Costello's attempts to deflect for Hilary.

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posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: introvert

These procedures are still in place regardless of what you want to believe.

The procedures put in place decades before I even joined the army were not followed in Benghazi.

Why not? I don't know.

What I do know is that if you don't follow QRF protocol people die. And they did.

So stuff it.




posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 11:58 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn



So stuff it.


That is what I was eventually expecting.

You cannot back-up your claims, nor justify the logical lapses in your arguments, so you have to resort to childish antics.

At least you tried.

I'll give you that.



posted on Aug, 2 2016 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

They were not followed because hillary is a crappy leader whose judgement is that of a teenager. She places no value on american lives and chooses to dishonor their deaths by lying to their families.
Those who choose to defend he only do so because it pays better than uber.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 12:00 AM
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a reply to: introvert

What claims did I make?


Be specific now.

What exactly did I say that needs to be "backed up"!

edit on 3 8 16 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 12:02 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: introvert

I gave them to you.

I have told you over and over again that there is standard procedures to be followed for such attacks and you dismissed them outright as "meaningless".

You don't want a discussion you want an echo chamber.




You appealed to authority and then dismissed authority higher than you.


You keep repeating it, and it's still bull. We should probably trust our president too, seeing is how we're American?



That makes no sense.

We're talking about an appeal to military knowledge and authority.


Hmm, I guess the use of an analogy escapes you.

I guess if you go a few pages back you could also see in plain words (not mine) why what you keep repeating is bull. Something about paying political lip service.

So your "deferring to the authority" of military authority. Well wouldn't those guys been able to theoretically get out of there alive if that authority would have acted..you know..at all?



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 12:09 AM
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An introvert would not survive a day in the military. I take that back, maybe a week to out process them for being mentally incapable of understanding force protection. Then they would be sent back home to face shame, lying to their family and small circle of friends that they hurt their foot. A shame they would carry the rest of their lives that they were incapable mentally of serving and protecting others.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 12:11 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Thank you.

As a standard of response what you wrote makes a great deal of sense, and does raise very serious questions about the behaviour of not just SoS Clinton, but other very high level military and civilian "leaders".

This I knew already, your post just highlighted it for me.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: introvert

If he were on the stand as an expert witness, and I've no reason to doubt his expertise, that's exactly what would have been asked of him.

To explain what should have happened, as opposed to what did happen.

It's obvious that serious mistakes were made at high levels in the whole Benghazi mess, and as SoS, Clinton hasn't answered, to many peoples satisfaction, the myriad of questions that remain unanswered.

12 hours? That's rather hard to explain away.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: seagull

It would be a mistake to place all the blame for this fiasco on just Clinton.

There are a lot of moving parts in situations like this. At least there should have been.

In this case, orders never came to the QRF teams that were ready to go. It's not like the units around Benghazi didn't know what was going on. Every TOC within range and just about every command in the area was aware of what was happening and not a single one of them was allowed to intervene for 12 hours.

There is no logical explanation for that from my point of view.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 12:50 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

You're right, and I did kind of imply that in my last post. Clinton does not bear sole responsibility, not even remotely.

There's all kinds of blame to be parceled out from bottom to top.

How did the embassy itself not scream to high heaven about its lack of security teams?

Why did some relatively senior officer/staffer not bite the bullet and just send the rescue parties? No way does he/she get hung...

So many questions that have not been answered to almost anyone's satisfaction. It has nothing to do with party politics, certainly not on my part...I despise both parties equally.

I just can not get past that whole 12 hour thing. How the (((bleep))) does nothing--NOTHING--happen for 12 flippin' hours? Someone, who I don't know, grounded 'em...that's the only explanation I can come up with.
edit on 8/3/2016 by seagull because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 12:57 AM
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a reply to: seagull

That's the only way it could have happened.

Any time you're in theater QRF teams are set by region. They keep distances reasonably short in order to respond to things quickly.

1/2 hour is too long in my opinion. But I understand that this was a new campaign and probably didn't have the set up for anything closer.

That said, 12 hours without a QRF response? I have no idea how that happens without someone up the chain making it happen.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 01:00 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Where would the team have responded from?

Perhaps, though it doesn't excuse it, there were political concerns that might have been raised??



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 01:04 AM
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a reply to: seagull

That I can't answer.

According to reports there were delta operators on QRF within a half hour of Benghazi. I don't know exactly where they were placed and none of us will ever know.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 01:29 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Should have guessed that...

Looking at a map though, they were either in country, or off shore on a navy ship. Which I suppose is apropos of nothing...just stating the obvious.

I can't imagine what political calculations would go into allowing an embassy to come under attack like that, much less the death of an ambassador... That's an amount of cold calculation that should be in prison, not in govt work.

At the first hint of an attack, the embassy calls state. Which begins several balls rolling, or should... Army. Navy. Or, I suppose, SpecOps (or whatever it's called now...) to begin prep for immediate rescue operations/reinforcement. This sort of thing would be, I should think, an all hands on deck sort of deal. Marines. Delta. Whoever is handy. Ok, military is notified. Obviously White House situation desk is called, then a phone call to the Presidents bedroom by the duty officer in the situation room. So he knows. SoS is getting the same phone call. Their myriad of underlings are getting wake up calls as well, I can only assume.

White House.
State Dept.
Pentagon.
CIA/DIA/ONI (and every other alphabet agency).

All of these are notified virtually instantly. All have resources available to send, some in as little as half an hour. Some probably a bit longer, but certainly sooner than 12 hours.

Yet not one of them were able to do it? Oh, no...this is deliberate on someones part, it just doesn't compute that they were all this stupid at the same time, and the same place.

Unless we're missing something, someone(s) should hang.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: seagull




ooking at a map though, they were either in country, or off shore on a navy ship. Which I suppose is apropos of nothing...just stating the obvious.


Don't know if they had any naval assets in the region at that time though..At least near enough to Benghazi to make a difference.

But there was a few teams in place including one designated as QRF(there always is).

Beyond all of that I don't know. The inner workings of the Departments is typically a mystery to me. I don't understand how they came to the decision to not send help. Barring political reasons, of course.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 01:54 AM
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Assuming, dangerous I know, that it wasn't deliberate and was a horrific accident, that would be, IMHO, nearly as bad as deliberate intent...as it would be a demonstration of incompetence that is breathtaking in its scope. Utterly without parallel in US military history, save perhaps Pearl Harbor.

Every single foreign desk worker bee in the intelligence agencies, and military intelligence agencies, and the State dept should be summarily fired without regard to seniority. Utter and complete house cleaning. From the bottom to the top. The White House, too. Too late to impeach anyone...but Mr. Obama, and Mr. Biden should wear this for the rest of their lives. ...and the military, oh buddy...the military should have acted, period. Heads should roll, all over the place.

There's an acronym I read about once...not sure it's even real. UNODIR...unless otherwise directed. Instead of waiting for an order, they should have gone. Yes, it would have ended some folks careers, but rather an honorable act then sitting on ones ass polishing ones ring.

The more I think about this, and there's a reason I really haven't delved too deeply. Damn you, projectvxn!


I get very angry. Some good men died who shouldn't have. Assets were in place that could have, obviously no guarantees, saved at least some of them. Either through sheer blindingly incompetent idiocy, or cold blooded deliberation, they weren't.

...and no amount of obfuscation changes that. This big ol' elephant in the room needs addressing...and like it or not, some of it leads straight to Hillary Clintons desk at State. Period.
edit on 8/3/2016 by seagull because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 01:56 AM
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a reply to: seagull

We are told that in the absence of orders to go with our best judgement and execute.

It's even in the US Army NCO Creed:

"I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders."

With that said, if no orders were given, then the initiative is on the side of the soldiers on the ground.

Which begs the question...Was there an absence of orders?
edit on 3 8 16 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

That's the one.

If it's not expressly forbidden, use your own best judgement.


I don't see a whole lot of that in this instance, my friend. Quite the opposite. At all levels.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 03:02 AM
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I was under the silly impression that when American Patriots were in trouble,

We would move Heaven and Earth to get to our people.

Somebody failed badly.

It damn sure makes a difference to me.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 05:49 AM
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a reply to: JaMeDoIt





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