Are the masses the problem or are we!!!!

This was originally posted in another are, I thought I could make a strong arguement.

Many think I sound crazy talking about it, but you guys decide for yourself
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote: Originally posted by Vertu
quote: Originally posted by FoxStriker
Masses are harder to manipulate because they do not ask for definite proof.

Intellectuals are easier because you can use their own skills against them. Its that easy, I don't claim not to have been manipulated with but I have seen the outcome.

You would have thought it would be the opposite.

You are wrong about that... masses are easy to manipulate, intellectuals are harder. Personally, I couldn't turn the skills of intellectuals against them, I'd rather turn their intensions against them, if I had to. That works on most people, and it doesn't require you to be an intellectual.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
paul_richards:

Right on Vertu.

This is evidenced by the fact that whenever a communist or fascist regime (which are both totalitarian forms of government -- the extreme left and the extreme right respectively) takes over, one of the first things they do is line up all the intellectuals in the country and shoot them.

It is also not so easy to turn the intentions of intellectuals against them. In essence, what we are talking about is intellectual manipulation against intellectuals. That is very difficult to accomplish.

One of the first things that Adolph Hitler did when he came to power was to have all the intellectuals that opposed him politically hunted down and killed. The remaining, ignorant masses under the Nazis were far easier to manipulate, program and control.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So for the long wait on the responce, but in case you guys are still hear.

You guys are prime examples of how this system works. Your ego is your greatest adversary as is your intellectual sense to question things. Right now there is such a system in place.

Although you say masses are easier to control, which is true to an extent. You don't understand how the mind of the so called ignorant work. I works by first believing in what ever cause they did believe in, but you will see that the masses are actually more able to complain about how life is and try to act in intellectual manner.

While the intellectual is most of the time the first to fall, when you convince one, then, you have two then four. If an intellectual considers this to be fact, most will never question it again. For them it is solid proof.

YOU TWO answered your own question. Your own supposite knowledge of the past and from your own intellectual understanding doesn't allow you to see the truth.

It is that same attitude that usually condem the masses to be manipulated, because a group of intellectuals where manipulated.

Vertu and Paul_Richard, you don't see the masses having debates over subjects on the street, you guys should know this. It always lies on a few to watch out for the many.

The problem starts from the intellectuals and trickles down to masses.

Our entire system is based on this.

The world that is today is no longer the evil world of yesterday, I still think to this day that websites like this are used to convey the voice of the self proclaimed intellectual to others rather to confuse than to actually. We think we are fighting a great victory by questioning what is going on outside, but in reality your bitting yourself in the @ss by not seeing the truth.

YOU ARE THOUGHT TO THINK THIS WAY IN INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE DESIGN FOR YOU TO THINK THAT WAY.

THE PROBLEM THAT YOU WILL REALIZE IS THAT YOU NEVER QUESTION THE TRUE FOUNDATION OF WHERE YOU GOT THIS GREAT REVOLATION OR UNDERSTANDING

[edit on 1/19/2005 by FoxStriker]

yeah but its up to the intilectual to sypher the adjacent analasys and forge their own opinion. acumulative intelegence is the sum of these message boards. the dumb man will allow the institution to think for him.

I honestly believe that intellectuals are part of the masses. lets face it, we are all essentially the same people, but some make a more concious effort to educate themselves. Is there a distinction between an intellectial and a member of the masses other than the thought process present in each? If the masses are the problem, then so are intellectuals, and vica versa.

I agree with waldheimat. I don't see any evidence that 'intellectuals' believe or disbelieve conspiracy theories (whether right or wrong) more or less than the average person.

[edit on 1/19/2005 by djohnsto77]

I agree that the masses (none intelectuals) are easier to control. The intelectuals can be and are manipulated it just takes a lot longer.

Originally posted by FoxStriker
This is evidenced by the fact that whenever a communist or fascist regime (which are both totalitarian forms of government -- the extreme left and the extreme right respectively) takes over, one of the first things they do is line up all the intellectuals in the country and shoot them.

Yes and how do they identify intelectuals? They do it by identifying those who went to university or college. To me this says that those people have been programmed to beleive in the old regime and reprogramming them would be to difficult/not economically viable.
We are all programmed to to some extent. Most people (I don't bother to consider the opinion of the masses here) in the western world beleive in democracy because it's shuved down our thoats as are the evils of communism and fascism. The same situation exists in communist and fascist countries, we're all programmed to beleive in a particular political system.


[edit on 20-1-2005 by TruthResearcher2000]

Think about it is some a-hole manager going to pick some hard worker who needs a full time job who went to high school or some college/university graduate who believes everything anyone tells them, but has no intention of looking out for anyone else than themsleves and their relatives.
I hate how hollywood betrays us, as all men, who live in a basement(I wish.), who do drugs the CIA gives us, are trained militants, are scared of being posioned(like we haven't already), and are paranoid. And if your my age most people in your age group reject you and talk behind your back because of these misconceptions.
It's really sad? And college is just a BS way of getting a job and keeping the masses on a leash.

Tnx for the responses, I always feel that I stand alone when it comes to believing that we are as much to blame as the masses.

But I do have another question. Do any of you think that it is the actual institutions that make the educated the greater problem (intellectuals). Most men in history that have made significant changes to the world are the ones who usually choose the harder paths, because when they walk out of that path ambition is a given trait and obstacles are no longer the mountain, but the mole hill if not a bump on the road.

Almost every form of education is a programing. Your brain is nothing but a wet computer controlled by your spirit (can get you a 600+ page book that backs this up....written by evolutionist) and it comes withlittle programming when you are born.

Programing is not too hard to point out. I'll talke a look at 2 seperate directions of thinking that get it a lot here:
Evolution: In almost every single book written for children (the ones with a bunch if dinosaur pictures) about evolution, in the first paragraph, it immediatly states how many millions of years ago that particular dino lived. No reasoning involved, just stating it as if the statement alone makes it fact....in fact few people EVER learn how they determine age...fewer still see the actual evidence in detail as to why they are stated to be so old. Then when you get into the classes, they keep lucy around as an ancestor (brand new College text book had this one as one of our ancestors nearly 30 years after the young couple (previously evolutionists, who in late life changed to a creationisitic view) who FOUND lucy and STUDIED lucy determined that she was nothing but a lage ape...and that there were human skeletons in the same/earlier layers than she) They also have this graph of the evolution of a baby human, chick, and frog...all of which is checkable as a false document. I can go on for 5 years and not cover everything that is done half-baked in this field. And it only takes a few minutes to tear apart a pack of cards stacked on a lie...but it's rarely done. And then, the questions on the test: how many millions of years ago did this dinosaur live? It's a leading question, giving no room but to think in terms of millions of years ago...andf if you disagree, you can't put the answer down, even with any form of proof behind you, to show your reasoning.
Creation: Often, in this area only leavs it on the "God said so" which is honestly, not enough (and scriptures even point to that...why else would they have scriptures on the truth of the scriptures being checkable?!?). They'll passionately defend a 6 day universe, without ever touching anything that evolutionists claim. They pound it into kids heads in the nursury, making songs to remind the mind of what they are teaching....and NEVER teach any outside the text supporting proof.

Why? This is a field that should be able to put the evidence in front of you and let you make your own decisions, yet you can't because both sides, at this point, have been brainwashing kids for the past 50 years, if not more. These now adult people can't even think to remotely see the other side of the field, and reinforce this with their kids. It doen't even matter at this point which one is right becuase you can't prove it to either one anymore....no one is listening to anyone and really looking at the evidence. ...and some days, that even includes me, and I'm rather open.

What is there to gain? Well, if the bible is false, then the moral standards therein are more than likely flse too...and some people don't want to live under that moral code. If the bible is true, the more dogmatic of religous leaders that had done the "the bible said so" teaching, they can often "get away with murder" because their verbal authority was never challenged. What side would you want to win? A world without morals, or a world where the leaders of the faith dictate your life? We know from history that both are absolute hell, in terms of what is done to the ignorant masses at that point (Spanish Inquisition vs. Hitler situation.... both inherantly evil). It is dangerous to start form scratch and test the two directions against reality. Neither side will be happy with you.

What is left ofr the intelectual who can see both sides? Nothing but ridicule...a sense of knowing the truth is out there, but being hidden from you....absolute frustration.

>> Your own supposite knowledge of the past and from your own intellectual understanding doesn't allow you to see the truth.

Both yes and no.

Supposedly there are "ordinary" people who are not intelligent and do not know anything much. They are the "mass". Anybody who poses as a leader can feed any "program" into them that they will follow.

Intelligent people, people who do have a "better processor" do have more knowledge ( information ) stuffed into them and can logically analyze a situation, with a supposedly better outcome then normal people. Yet the outcome would be far from perfect, as they are trying to model the future by logically analyzing the past.

And yes, in lots of cases their incomplete or inaccurate information, that was stuffed into them, limits them from seeing the Truth or anything that they'd consider impossible.

I remember how one doctor's face looked like when a healer made him sense his energy ( that the doctor was sure "could not exist, because could exist never" ).

So an ordinary person looks at water and has no idea of what it is.

An intelligent person looks at water and knows that it is H2O, because his school teacher told him it is so. This is the way of learning the world from the experience of others.

And there, supposedly, are people who see the world in reality, see the Truth, who had cleared their mind from such "facts" ( water is H2O and period ) and opened certain powers with which they can, for example, look into water the "see" its molecules.

* * *

An interesting quote I've already posted here a few times.

First way - "IMITATION".

This way is the easiest and sweetest... in the beginning. But difficult and bitter in the end. Walking this way one does not have to work with his sole. He has to be as everybody, act as everybody, live as everybody. But in the old age - bitterness, repentance and regret...

On this way one does not have to think, all he's got to do is follow his basic wills and instincts.

This is the way of the "sleeping". This is learning the world by repeating the experience of others, by imitating the ones before you.

"Time will come when human would be able, by the use of an object, to lift another object to the stars and back ( to Mars, in our case ) , and further, through 18 thousand worlds to God. ( not sure if this should be understood literally )

Time will come when human would be able, by the use of an object, to lift himself to the stars and back ( in our case - to the moon ) , and further, through 18 thousand worlds to God, to face him in person.

But this will happen only when the time comes. This time might come in 30 breathes or in 30 thousand years. But this is when the time comes and your life might be not enough for waiting.

On this way you can receive, get, collect knowledge and pass it to other people. You can leave a trace in the history of mankind and your experience of going this way.�


Second way - "The way of the STATE"

The old book says �Remember! If you do not have time to wait thousands of years and you want to face the Creator during your lifetime and dissolve in his great and immense light, you must follow the path of self-knowledge.

Going the path of self-knowledge, revealing your hidden powers, you would be able, with the will of your spirit, to lift another object to the stars and back, and further, through 18 thousand worlds to God. Or you would be able, with the will of your spirit, to lift yourself to the stars and back, and further, through 18 thousand worlds to God.

On this way you will learn hate, passing into compassion to people.

Through compassion you will understand love.

After becoming rich, you will understand the essence of wealth and misery.

You will understand the essence of force and weakness.

You will learn and will understand validity.

You will learn the pain of being alone, remaining among many people.

You will understand happiness and pain simultaneously, by opening your true perception of this world and seeing people they way they really are.

Truth can not be transferred, truth can only be understood.
On the way of imitation, obtaining easy knowledge, your personality disappears, leaving only the form, dissolved in the crowd. It is very hard to find, understand truth on this way.

The way of the state is the way to the perfect human.

Everybody going this way can understand truth.

Its deficiency consists in the fact that force, ability, love, might and all possibilities, achieved on the way to truth, can not be transmitted, transfered to others.

In the transmitting, being reflected in the consciousness of another person, truth perishes.

Task of that going this way - to find, recognize, open the perfect person and to transmit relay race."

[edit on 29-3-2005 by bratok]

It isn't us, it's "groups" like us that are hard for powerful ppl to control, so they tell the masses, B/C a few of them are off their rocker, and b/c some used drugs in '70s, most are "geeks", "dorks", "freaks", and b/c we screw you $, they are "slackers" b/c their "unhappy" with us. And then they use associate conditioning with "Aliens", "Conspiracy Theories", and "Paranoid" and then they "own" the masses. Until they hear story like the "fake news" in the news. How ironic, huh?

you were thought to think a certain way and that causes problems to start with, look at it this way. The foundation on which you have been thought to think in is the ultimate illusion to begin with, so you have to start all over again.

There is a Universal Understanding, few people ever reach. A universal foundation of thinking, it may seem like BS, but trust me eventually all of humanity will be thinking this way.

Its our only hope.

Universal Understanding is the neutral area in all the chaos in the world. It will answer all your problems in the world, and it will always be right.

Why do I do this, because we are always on a left and right zig zap and only when both meet do we ever get anything done.

by the way good responses jlc163,BSB2005,bratok