Turkey Surrounds, Blocks Access To NATO's Incirlik Airbase Amid Speculation Of Second Coup

a reply to: awareness10

Potentially. I still don't see a US backed Coup being kicked off with WhatsApp though. I see more organic like 1980. That's just my opinion though.

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: 23432

I personally enjoy reading your post and getting an insight from someone closer to the inner circle of the Turkish government. Many in the West are totally against an Islamic state based on Suni Wahhabism thoughts even though there are not mass protest about our supporting Saudi and helping in their efforts in Yemen and Syria..

Turkey should do what the people want and enjoy the benefits of their decision whether good or bad.... that way they will know it was their decision and not someone Else's.

I am not a fan of the current government of Turkey's purge but I am not there and am not Turkish so, so what...

So you just keep posting when you feel like it for it gives us all an insight into some of the belief's from your part of the world..

Thank you for a lovely post .

SPAM removed by admin

originally posted by: yuppa


Chinese have been around longer than 1000 years too. Dont mean we should emulate them. Its not about number of years but the QUALITY of the years you have. YEs the caliphate dissapeared. Part of it was its hold which was thrown off because of it getting to mean for the people they ruled.

First of all , it is an issue for Muslims to decide what to do with their Caliphate .

Western Civilisation a.k.a Christians have similar figure head in Pope .

Caliphate wasn't " thrown off " ; if you read the Law concerning Caliphate , you would see that it has been " stored " .

Caliphate was 100 times less mean to those whom they ruled over ; Papacy systematically destroyed Natives while Caliphate allowed them to retain their own Nationalistic Characters , including their Churches & Languages .

Even Jerusalem still has the Administrative Law from the Caliphate to govern the City of Jerusalem .

If you are going to oppose something ; you really learn what you are opposing imho.

In Islam , it is the duty of each and every muslim to ensure the safety & security of every non muslim .

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Erdogan has never really been in cahoots with the West - he is an Islamist idol. During his first election cycle, moderates were warning that an Erdogan vicotry would finally result with a move away from Turkish secularism and lead to a rise in the Islamist movement.

I don't really have too much issue with that per say - they are a democratic country (allegedly!) and also a major Muslim majority country. My issue is more that although this was foreseen, it appears to have been completely overlooked in favour of continued support for Turkey so we could continue bombing the Middle East. In effect, NATO (mainly US as they have the toys) has continued arming Turkey with much better weaponry than surrounding nations (apart from Israel) whilst ignoring any possible blow back - surel;y this is another huge intelligence failing?

Oh, I am aware! I said some years back that there were signs that Turkey was headed away from being secular, and into a more radical mode. A lot of people didn't want to listen, but many saw and understood. Now, we are seeing it happen. The problem I have is that there won't be any democracy left, in that case. Islam allows no freedom.

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Well nothing else as of yet but I must ask myself.. is NATO drunk? This seems to be yet another ploy to get ever closer to Russia's border by having attempted to take yet another country.

Drunk...or planning something. We will likely learn what soon enough.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Islam allows plenty of freedom. The problem we have is that the Islamic narrative is being framed for us in the media by a very narrow mindset in terms of our potrayal and also the Islamic potrayal (using dodgy Imams that love controversy).

It is similar to Westbro Baptist Church claiming to frame Christianity for non Christians. And the problem, we buy into this rubbish in ever increasing numbers until you get to a point where any Islamic looking person is treated with suspicion.

It's pathetic and i've had more than enough of it. No idea how it stops though.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Islam allows plenty of freedom. The problem we have is that the Islamic narrative is being framed for us in the media by a very narrow mindset in terms of our potrayal and also the Islamic potrayal (using dodgy Imams that love controversy).

It is similar to Westbro Baptist Church claiming to frame Christianity for non Christians. And the problem, we buy into this rubbish in ever increasing numbers until you get to a point where any Islamic looking person is treated with suspicion.

It's pathetic and i've had more than enough of it. No idea how it stops though.

That freedom thing you say might have worked 50 years ago but unfortunately to many westerners have worked and lived in many of the garden spots of the mid-east.. Freedom for all or freedom for the few ? I supposed you need to define freedom and for whom does that freedom exist for..?

a reply to: 727Sky

I can't deny that. However, at least by discussing it we get move the narrative forward. Surely that is better than Muslim = bad man?

Islam needs a reformation - many Muslim scholars, never mind ordinary Muslims, recognise and accept that. The thing is though that a reformation won't happen when we keep forcing Muslims into a box. Like in any other situation where someone is forced into a corner, they feel threatened and unwanted and, basically, adopt a defensive stance. That just means we end going round in circles without anything being resolved.

Let me be clear, i am not a fan of Islam and certainly wouldn't consider myself a Muslim apologist. That said, i hate this new attitude of Islam = evil. People's actions are what can be evil, not a huge section of people themselves.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Islam allows plenty of freedom. The problem we have is that the Islamic narrative is being framed for us in the media by a very narrow mindset in terms of our potrayal and also the Islamic potrayal (using dodgy Imams that love controversy).

It is similar to Westbro Baptist Church claiming to frame Christianity for non Christians. And the problem, we buy into this rubbish in ever increasing numbers until you get to a point where any Islamic looking person is treated with suspicion.

It's pathetic and i've had more than enough of it. No idea how it stops though.

No, it's not like that at all. WBC is a small group, mostly a single family, that literally NO ONE respects. They are hateful, but they don't actually attack anyone, save with words.

Muslims, on the other hand, carry out attacks all of the time in the name of their god, and commit countless acts of violence. People who leave Islam are killed. People who refuse to become Muslim are killed. For there to be a comparison, you'd have to have a large group of Christians carrying out acts of terror, and that isn't happening. Are all Muslims violent? No. However, many are, and it's a systemic problem. Suspicion? No, not based on just that. A local greeter is likely Muslim - definitely Middle Eastern - and he's a very pleasant fellow. Always smiles, friendly. No issues. A woman checker, definitely Muslim, who isn't so friendly if she knows someone is Christian, still isn't suspicious.

As for freedom, there are a lot of restrictions. Women told to cover up, not allowed to drive - that doesn't sound like freedom to me. Places in the UK designated as Islamic, by Muslims, and non-Muslims attacked for drinking, or for how they dress, isn't freedom. Believe whatever you want to believe, but when people try to force all to believe as they do, under threat of, and actual, violence, that's a problem.

It would help if more Muslims stood up against the ones committing the violence. Instead of cheering acts of terror, lamenting them. Instead of funding terrorists, reporting them. I'd report someone in a church I attended for such a thing. The hubby worked with locals while deployed, and they said they didn't understand the violence, either. They understood, though, that there were serious issues.

As a Christian, I don't want to live in a country that demands all are Christian. Can you say the same about Islam?

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Sharia has no legal basis within the UK beyond domestic disputes. That is the same protection afforded to Judaism and other religious groups. There are at least 2.5 billion Muslims so what is a large number that carry out terror? Even 10'000 is a tiny proportion. Plus most Jihadi's are poor, illiterate peasants that only join up in the first place as they actually get paid for it. Plenty of Muslims stand up against acts of Terror - where are the millions of white Christians denouncing barrel bombing in Syria? Or getting babies hooked on certain brands of baby milk in Africa?

I don't know ATS, i give up these days. Seems we have swallowed the media propoganda. Congratulations, Muslims are bad people. Whilst we white Christians are paragons of virtue and beyond reproach. It just makes me sick.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Sharia has no legal basis within the UK beyond domestic disputes. That is the same protection afforded to Judaism and other religious groups. There are at least 2.5 billion Muslims so what is a large number that carry out terror? Even 10'000 is a tiny proportion. Plus most Jihadi's are poor, illiterate peasants that only join up in the first place as they actually get paid for it. Plenty of Muslims stand up against acts of Terror - where are the millions of white Christians denouncing barrel bombing in Syria? Or getting babies hooked on certain brands of baby milk in Africa?

I don't know ATS, i give up these days. Seems we have swallowed the media propoganda. Congratulations, Muslims are bad people. Whilst we white Christians are paragons of virtue and beyond reproach. It just makes me sick.

Sharia is about a lot more than "domestic" issues, and some of that is actually criminal in nature. Spousal abuse, anyone?? No, no other religion gets a free pass on that.

I see Christians denouncing that sort of thing all the time. Try discussion boards on such topics.