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Paranormal Studies: So much yet so little.

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posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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Paranormal studies have always been an illigitamite science. The "enlightened" feel that there is something else to this world than meets the eye, yet none of us can put our finger on it. Those with open minds seek out these extraordinary occurances. To others, they come naturally. However, despite the staggering number of paranormal experiances, there is a surprising lack of real solid proof.

Don't get me wrong. I am as open to these experiances as the rest of you, but sometimes it can get discouraging. We are forced to accept the word of mouth of people, whose identity and ligitimacy can't be confirmed. The beauty is that we can use our mind to analyze this wealth of information and take in what we believe and block out what we don't. Still, proof would be nice. Just because we have open minds and we claim to "Deny Ignorance" doesn't mean that it is a blank check to accept every new experiance we hear about without question.

When one tries to be a healthy sceptic on these forums, other members criticize them for being closed-minded. Here is an example:

Person 1: Is Ki and Ki balls real?
Person 2: Yes! They certainly are.
Person 3: Absolutley, I have done it myself.
Person 4: No it is nonsense and impossible.
Person 5: Err.. I would like to see some proof so I can learn more.
Everyone: Hey! Don't bother coming here again you disbelievers! You don't need proof!

Now that was a bit extreme but the general message is there. This is the biggest collection of extraordinary occurances on the internet. We should have been able to come up with conclusive proof of something by now. With so many active members every day, content control administrators, and the wealth of new info. We are right back to where we started from. It is like watching one of those documentaries on the History channel. Do aliens exist?! Staggering new information that can change your life. You say: "Goody!" At the end of the program, "Do aliens exist?! Maybe! But we don't know for sure" Same thing on these forums.

Once again, I am not saying that I don't believe in the supernatural. If anything I believe in it as much as the next tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. ( My hat is by me at all times
) But I want to explore this phenomenon.

So many experiances, yet so little proof.

Discuss.




posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Wel for paranormal studies, proof is often found because of practising it oneself. The ki-ball you gave in the example, is quite easy to create for the average person. Person 4 and Person 5 in your example would be better able to comment on the matter if they tried it themselves.

This field is not some untouchable field that only some scientists in a university are able to understand, or find out for you if it's real or not. A good example is also "Out of body" experiences. I'm not even convinced OOBE's exist. I known they exist, because I've had seven of them. My own experience, because I attempted to learn how to have one myself instead of relying on some other people or some scientists to give me proof.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by DreamReality
Now that was a bit extreme but the general message is there. This is the biggest collection of extraordinary occurances on the internet. We should have been able to come up with conclusive proof of something by now. With so many active members every day, content control administrators, and the wealth of new info. We are right back to where we started from.

It is like watching one of those documentaries on the History channel. Do aliens exist?! Staggering new information that can change your life. You say: "Goody!" At the end of the program, "Do aliens exist?! Maybe! But we don't know for sure" Same thing on these forums.

So many experiances, yet so little proof.

Discuss.



That was a good example but not really ... Aliens are not like Psi abilities at all. People with some Stronger Psi abilities maybe were made out to be Aliens a while ago. But ... other than that ... NO !!! That is incorrect.

I know the answer to this question already. But I will ask ... .

Has there ever been anything in your whole life that you have had to almost die for in order for you to learn it ???

Nah, didn't think so ... maybe that was to extreme of an example .... but you cannot even find time to meditate and you get on the board and mock those who are trying to comprehend but most of them will end up like you or the rest of you who have stopped believing that there is something inside you that you want to let out and you do let out at certain times. Mostly accidentally and totally uncontrollably ... even sometimes it takes control of you in your rage. I am not talking about an energy ball or anything of the sorts I am talking about our own Aura .... how can we control any sort of energy when the slightest bit of stress is put on us and we break ... =-) ...



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
I known they exist, because I've had seven of them. My own experience, because I attempted to learn how to have one myself instead of relying on some other people or some scientists to give me proof.

[/I]


If you did have any out of body experiences. It was not because you just decided to have them. There was something that you needed and that you either recieved or saw how to recieve in your OBE (Outta Body Exp). You also may learn that an outta body experience is not a Psi ability. It is just something that happens to everyone. ALTHOUGH it is closely communicated with the Psi abilities. The out of body experience sometimes is from ... Hallucinations or Stress on the body which actually tie in to having control with your own body and exactly what you can go through without breaking Concentration. But anyways ... I am just babbling ... about nothing ... It really doesn't even exist, if you have tried it and given up ... go away because it does not exist.

[edit on 1/19/2005 by bet555]

Why believe in something that you know doesn't exist. ???

[edit on 1/19/2005 by bet555]



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Most paranormal and spiritual proof comes from experiencing them yourself. It's hard to proof aspects if you're focused purely on science. Science has a big short coming when it comes to this.

Sure we got the tools to record voices of the dead, be able to capture ghosts on film or camera and basics like that. Science is still unable to proof anything else besides that.

There are people who, like me, learned that religion is useless. I stopped following the teachings of christianity. I stopped reading the Bible and such. Why? I lacked proof of engels and god, yet I knew there was something bigger out there. Now I have personally found it. Solid proof which convinced me personally what is real.

I can say what it is, but many reiki users probably know it themselves as well. You can't find proof or expect to be convinced without the willingness to put effort into it. Effort such as reading and thus learning more about it. Experimenting things and meditation from time to time.

On this board I feel that it's safe to share what you have learned and experienced. Sceptics will come along saying it's impossible, but they're people who mainly rely on science and miss out on so much else. Other people will ask questions and show mild interest. Another group of people are believers and will use your experiences to enhance their own.

In the end everyone is different en everything has a different effect on each individual.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by DreamReality
However, despite the staggering number of paranormal experiances, there is a surprising lack of real solid proof.

Still, proof would be nice.

So many experiances, yet so little proof.


The proof is always there. Even the pure existance of paranormal phenomena is proof. Knowing how to handle that, brings even more proof to surface. It's just the way your simple mind works, which separates you from understanding the truth.

Also, there are many people being trapped by reading all that bull some artists create to become famous. People should never read anything like that.

Many people would just simply not believe, if they found a dead alien or a crashed spaceship. Why? Because it is far better for you to believe the fairytale your mind set up, than accepting the truth , which is holding factors that are new to your simple mind.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 03:53 PM
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Excellent, these are the kind of responses I was looking for. I belive that my mistake was combining all of the supernatural into one catagory. Well two, really. Normal and Paranormal.

In actuality, the different catagories (from aliens to bigfoot, from magic to out of body experiances) only share one trait, they are unproven by science and we all know this means very little.

From what I understand, there are several ways to deal with and understand the supernatural. The first is to experience it yourself. This is all the proof people need sometimes. The second is to hear and believe. This is the easiest and most difficult way since it requires a leap of faith. To some it comes easily. But other require hardcore proof.

Out of Body experiances and psi abilities are reachable by regular people through diligent training and meditation. If you work hard enough, you will aquire the proof you need. However, meeting aliens or seeing ghosts is more of a thing of chance. The select few that have these experiences can't offer the proof we need to believe.


Now to deal with some user responses.
Enyalius: I belive your post is right on the button. It provides an excellent description of what I am trying to say. I will bring up the religion issue in a moment.

bet555: I really don't understand the gyst of your posts. when you say:



Nah, didn't think so ... maybe that was to extreme of an example .... but you cannot even find time to meditate and you get on the board and mock those who are trying to comprehend but most of them will end up like you or the rest of you who have stopped believing that there is something inside you that you want to let out and you do let out at certain times.


Are you personally attacking me or are you making a general statement. I meditate and I have attempted some of the things you describe however, i'm not quite there yet.

What did you mean when you said:


Has there ever been anything in your whole life that you have had to almost die for in order for you to learn it ???


TheBandit795: I know what you mean, however I have been working on the Lucid Dreaming aspect of conciousness instead of OBEs for now. However, My life is a bit too stressful to delve too deep at the moment.


One topic that I forgot to discuss in my original post was how the supernatural was akin to religion.

Religion works out of faith. Yet many members of these forums shoot it down. I am not a religious man myself. I examined it and found it difficult to believe. However if people need it as a safety net, I won't try to convince them otherwise. Personally I don't think that the world would work without some form of organized religion. The moral impact would be too great. But I digress.

What I am trying to say is that there is a double standard. When people come to the forums with religious experiences they get shot down because of lack of proof. But as I said, religion works on faith. When someone comes with more of a paranormal question, we are much more lenient in the proof category and rely more on faith to accept it. It is just an interetsting phenomenon that I noted.

Any more input?



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 03:55 PM
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I hate people that say you have a simple mind you can't understand this. To me as I see it it is the total opposite my g/f tells me I am dumb over and over again. Because I am small minded person who doesn't look beyong what I know for fact. Everything else I test. I was the kind of kid you would see jumping off of his house on to the ground ... OVER AND OVER ... There was a way to fly ... by the time I was about 15 I found out that it wasn't by thoguhts or by how hi you jumped from .. unfortunately. But I think that there may be some connection between our feelings. Not our emotions that are controlled by the chemicals in oru brain. But the feelings we get at certain times. Such as the feeling of something really really bad about to happen. or when something happens that feeling we get in our stomach and Chest. I dunno ... maybe it is different for everyone ... I know it is differnet for everyone, but I just do not know exactly how different it is.

Wish I could get in each of you guys body and try it out. But we haven't come that far ... but one day we will be in that error ... and eadch of you are probably thinking my body is mine. HAHAHA ... You have to lose your bodies. Before you can see that your body is not yours it is whomever lives there.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by DreamReality
Religion works out of faith.

Any more input?


If you could just see into the minds of most religious people, you would know how hateful life they actually live. Religion is also a good cover. You can cover your disgusting life with God's name, and nobody will ever "believe" that you are a pedophil/killer/burglar/etc. It is far fetched, but in regular terms: this is the case. There are very few religious people, who have clean soul, most of them just learnt some words from the Bible.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by bet555
I hate people that say you have a simple mind you can't understand this.

Because I am small minded person who doesn't look beyong what I know for fact.

Such as the feeling of something really really bad about to happen.


There is nothing worse, than your own belief that you are a weak minded person. It's up to you how you comprehend another person's opinion, if you take it, then accept it. If you are gifted with the feeling of something really bad to happen, then you also possess the feeling, that something really good is going to happen. But it does require your exact skill to digest what's going around you.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 05:24 PM
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religion is just a set of guidelines to help mankind evolves spiritually,i dont think it is created to proof the existance of angels and gods.That is why pure faith is required in religion to follow the guidelines laid down.If you want proof of angels and gods,then spirit channelling or summoning spirits is the path you should seek.There are many different kind of entities in this world,and some of them may cross the path of mankind.Thus we will experience some kind of paranormal activityAnd there are many theories on where they resides and what they are.But we have only so little time in our hands,We cant investigate every single one of them,so most of us choose to believe what sounds logical to us.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by DreamReality


... But I want to explore this phenomenon.

So many experiances, yet so little proof.

Discuss.


I've also been one to demand proof for me to believe in something.(I think that has always had something to do with learning the truth about Santa
) Anyway, I've been looking into psi-abilities allot lately. Here are some reasons for that:
1. What I've been reading on the subject, fantastic as it is, seems logical to me. Much of what I have read speaks to me. It speaks of things I've felt already.
2.I think it a interesting subject matter
3.I think it's fun.
4.I can only prove it's real or not to my self.
So now I guess I'm on my own 'quest'. I hope to find the evidence to settle it.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
4.I can only prove it's real or not to my self.
So now I guess I'm on my own 'quest'. I hope to find the evidence to settle it.


You are right. But can you face this extremely powerful challenge? Only select people can handle this amazing situation, most people will never reach any goal because their little minds are gifted with restrictions.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by Vertu

You are right. But can you face this extremely powerful challenge? Only select people can handle this amazing situation, most people will never reach any goal because their little minds are gifted with restrictions.


I know that ignorance is bliss, the story of Pandora's box, curiosity killed the cat, once you open the door you can't turn back, and nothing risked is nothing gained.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
I know that ignorance is bliss, the story of Pandora's box, curiosity killed the cat, once you open the door you can't turn back, and nothing risked is nothing gained.


Fine... if you would be certain of everything in your life, then so would be everyone on this planet. You wouldn't be able to advance yourself to a higher level, because risk wouldn't be a factor. Whatever you would gain, everyone else would gain too, and you might had to share that with billions of people.

People who can risk, can also gain. It is possible that any risk could fail, but if you can think the way nobody else can think, your risk could be reduced to zero. But as the way you think, trying to achieve the 100% secure fact, you would never be able to risk, nor to gain. It is the average person's thinking, who firmly stick to the 100% security and whenever comes a slight challenge in their life, they are just crumble and prove their lack of life-experience.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 06:55 PM
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I know that ignorance is bliss, the story of Pandora's box, curiosity killed the cat, once you open the door you can't turn back, and nothing risked is nothing gained.


Heh, a wonderful collection of sayings and quotes that... sort of.. apply, I guess.


Anyway, this topic is losing direction so allow me to set it back on track with a discussion exercise.

What are your criteria for judging content on ATS.?
Obviously you don't accept everything you read but you do chose to believe certain things. How do you judge the credibility of some of the... "heavier" topics on these forums.

Note that there is a difference in believing something and being open to it. Let me provide an example. A person who has been abducted BELIEVES in aliens, as a result, his MIND IS OPEN to things like telepathy. A person who has not been abducted might NOT BELIEVE in aliens due to lack of an experience, but be VERY OPEN to the possibility of their existance. Furthermore he might BELIEVE in OBEs due to an experience he might have had.

Is experience the only means by which belief is possible. Is faith too little nowadays? Do I need to shut up already? All this and more in the next exciting issue of "So Much Yet So Little." STAY TUNED!



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by DreamReality
What are your criteria for judging content on ATS.?
Obviously you don't accept everything you read but you do chose to believe certain things. How do you judge the credibility of some of the... "heavier" topics on these forums.

A person who has been abducted BELIEVES in aliens, as a result, his MIND IS OPEN to things like telepathy. A person who has not been abducted might NOT BELIEVE in aliens due to lack of an experience, but be VERY OPEN to the possibility of their existance

Is experience the only means by which belief is possible. Is faith too little nowadays?


Very clever questions!

Personally I judge things due to my own experiences, there is no other way. It's like a way to "see" things, and have a well aimed impact on a thread/member. To me, it is not "belief", I KNOW what's going on, and I need no "evidence" for that.

Why does a person need to be abducted in order to perform telepathy? An alien can just sit on your bed, and watch you post these comments, and may perform telepathy on your mind...

Faith is a very important factor, because only that can save you from influence, and the hardcore bull from evil members. If you are not faithful, then don't even try to believe in anything, because that will only lead you to confusions and sleepless nights... and weapons under your pillow, and suicide plans... and so on. Faithful people don't need to think of such nonsense, no matter what the issue is about.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 08:32 PM
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To answer your question
Is experience the only means by which belief is possible?
Yes,if the subject you are talking about is invisible to the naked eye.You need to actually experience it to be able to firmly believe it is true or it existed.
i am open minded to things i dont fully understand,and i keep it in mind of things which i think is logically possible.When i read a piece of information,i dont necessary have to believe everything.I just extract the information i think is possible and give the rest the benefit of doubt.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:08 AM
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I skim through the topics. Reading only those that I find interesting. When a topic is about something I experienced myself then I shall share that experience so that the readers can use it, try it and experience something similar themselves.

If the topic is not about something I experienced myself then I shall read it with an open mind.

Topics that don't interest me are on the other parts of this vast board and you won't find me there. Sure I could go to the political/conspiracy area, but why? I like it, but it has little impact on myself and this life time.



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 07:25 PM
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I think that you can't really learn anything of substance from the board--there are just too many people who don't know what they're talking about, and so many more that interpret things differently from you. I like to comment on topics about psychic phenomea I've experienced and just chat with other people who deal with psychic abilities in normal life.

For me, above top secret is more like some sort of virtual support group, as apposed to a reliable source of information.



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