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Humor me, ATS, do you see a RAISED seal on the back of Obama’s short form birth certificate?

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posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Yes, to all of it! Thank you!

But, there's more that should be restated....

They actually refuse to even admit that the backside of the seal is what is raised. It was not simply stamped on the wrong side...the seal reads in reverse on the raised side:





posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Wait, so not only is it raised on the wrong side, but it's inverted on the side that is raised?

And it's not a match for the seal as designated by the DHOH?

I see why you keep using the analogy of monopoly money.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Wait, so not only is it raised on the wrong side, but it's inverted on the side that is raised?

And it's not a match for the seal as designated by the DHOH?

I see why you keep using the analogy of monopoly money.


Yes!!!



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Wait, so not only is it raised on the wrong side, but it's inverted on the side that is raised?

And it's not a match for the seal as designated by the DHOH?

I see why you keep using the analogy of monopoly money.


It is not stamped on the wrong side, per se, according to the images.

What would have had to happen to make what the images show is a separate set of die on the embossing mechanism that deboss the seal rather than emboss it.

It creates a gray area, but does't prove much to be honest.

As the article said, another BC from someone else was provided that was identical.

So it's either an optical illusion, the department that stamped it had a seal that was inverted at the same period, or it's fake and the other example is a lie or a manufacturer error of the same measure.
edit on 3-8-2016 by DeadFoot because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Wait, so not only is it raised on the wrong side, but it's inverted on the side that is raised?

And it's not a match for the seal as designated by the DHOH?

I see why you keep using the analogy of monopoly money.


It is not stamped on the wrong side, per se, according to the images.

What would have had to happen to make what the images show is a separate set of die on the embossing mechanism that deboss the seal rather than emboss it.

It creates a gray area, but does't prove much to be honest.


It's proof positive. An entirely different set of dies would be needed to deboss a seal, than dies ordered and produced to emboss a seal.

There's no grey area. It requires two different sets of dies to emboss and deboss the same image.

And if Politifact claimed to authenticate any other birth certificates based on the seal photographed by Factcheck.org, then they proved nothing...other than probably being in the tank for Obama.

They should have authenticated them with the Hawaii Department of Health -- NOT Factcheck.org.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: DeadFoot
So it's either an optical illusion, the department that stamped it had a seal that was inverted at the same period, or it's fake and the other example is a lie or a manufacturer error of the same measure.



Optical illusion is out, you read the caption...Factcheck.org labeled the reversed seal impression -- the BACKSIDE of the seal -- as raised.

You already admitted that.

Also, two metal dies cannot suddenly 'invert.' One metal die cannot even do that.

AND lastly, the manufacturer would have to follow the regulations promulgated by the Hawaii Department of Health, the agency would have to sign-off on any dies cast, and the agency would have to have spent years in delusion for your last theory to be true.

And, even if ANY of what you put forth was true, Factcheck still lied and captioned the backside of the seal as "The raised seal" and Arlen Specter still claimed that Congress relied on Factcheck in determining that a raised seal appears on the back of Obama's birth certificate.

Game. Set. Match.

ETA: And I know I will regret saying this...but I actually appreciate you recognizing that the agency did not simply seal the wrong side of the record. I am pretty sure you won't admit how significant it really is after calling it a 'grey area,' but you fessed up to it. And that puts you miles ahead of most naysayers that simply want to racebait the facts into obscurity.



edit on 3-8-2016 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye


...facts into obscurity.


I've been thinking a lot about this thread and have come to a few conclusions. Everyone tosses about confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance and it's quite often in relation to facts which impinge upon their worldview.

Another phenomena we are looking at is normalcy bias.

Generally that's experienced by people who undergo a tremendous natural disaster; devastating tornado, hurricane, earthquake. Something which shakes the very order of reality as you know it. People go in to shock and are not capable of dealing with what the very fact in front of them mean. They tend to normalize an otherwise very much not normal situation in order to cope with the fact that the world as they know it has changed but they are not yet ready to recognize that fact.

They also know this means that if they have to reevaluate something of this magnitude, then they have to look at everything else that makes up their construct of reality. And how many people are really ready to look at things which would make them change core beliefs?

Because if they accept such a fact, then their old world view dies and they have to go through the stages of grief.

In the very same vein, the status quo prevents people from doing something about the overt corruption that daily is printed in the news and is said to be the opposite of what any person with common sense would deduce the true fact of the matter to be.



posted on Aug, 3 2016 @ 08:37 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Game. Set. Match.


It certainly is, after 200+ court cases (some pushing the same nonsense as you are), every single court case failed as birthers have no facts, only lies.
Obama is still the legal POTUS, being elected twice.

Also he is the only President that some people demanded his birth certificates from (remember, a President does not even need a BC!) and by looking at a photo of all Presidents it is easy to see why!



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 05:10 AM
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originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
No one tries that hard to conceal records if they have nothing to hide.


Oh look, you have sealed your college records exactly the same as Obama has - what are you hiding?
Oh look, you have not provided your BC, so what are you hiding?
Trump has sealed his college records the same as Obama - what is he hiding?
Where are Trump's birth certificates, showing a seal? What is he hiding?

Obama has provided more records than most previous Presidents, yet you claim he is hiding something.... exactly how has Obama concealed records?


I am not running for the highest office in the land. If and when I do, you can see all that.

Plus, most of this is required of anyone getting a security clearance, and that included the president, yet NO ONE has seen this stuff for him.



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes




Plus, most of this is required of anyone getting a security clearance, and that included the president, yet NO ONE has seen this stuff for him.

What stuff? Are you sure that NO ONE has seen it?

Do you have a security clearance? I haven't seen THAT STUFF from you. Nor have I seen it from ANYONE who has ANY security clearance AT ALL !!!!!

So, I guess, that NO ONE has a valid security clearance !!!
edit on 8/4/2016 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 05:18 AM
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originally posted by: DeadFoot

originally posted by: Ladygreeneyes

I won't say what I think O is hiding, but I do believe he's hiding something. No one tries that hard to conceal records if they have nothing to hide.


Are you high?


No, are you?


originally posted by: DeadFoot
The guy has literally disclosed more records than any president I can think of.


What records, exactly? Two proven fake birth certificates? He demanded that McCain prove his citizenship, and McCain did. Yet he's proven nothing himself. The guy can't even keep his own DOB straight.


originally posted by: DeadFoot
And where are all of your guys' threads moving the goalposts on Trump's BC?


Trump's past is well known, and always has been. He didn't come out of nowhere, have no one remember him in schools he claimed to attend, and post fake birth certificates. If he was like that, I'd want his data, too.


originally posted by: DeadFoot
This birther crap is sooooooo tired, you guys seriously need to start coming up with better content. It's been 8 years now and I still haven't heard someone explain this alleged nefarious motive the guy has for faking his BC.


No, what's old are the BS names, trying to label people that ask questions. Old, lame tactic, and it doesn't make the questions less valid. Why a fake BC? Good question. Do you really want an answer, or just some response that you can claim is nonsense?



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

So what exactly are you saying Obama is? a plant? who planted him and for what reason?.



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 05:27 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Oh and all that about no one knew him? bebunked in 2008.

www.politifact.com...



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 05:35 AM
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a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

Donny made it up?

I'm so disappointed.



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 05:48 AM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Two proven fake birth certificates?


Proven fake by who exactly? Internet racists do not count.


He demanded that McCain prove his citizenship, and McCain did.


He has also proved his.... You "forget" he has been the POTUS for 8 years....

Funny how you also ignore the court cases that stated Obama is a natural born US citizen....

A lawsuit filed in an Arizona superior court by Kenneth Allen (Allen v. Arizona Democratic Party) alleged that Obama was not a natural-born citizen because his father "was a resident of Kenya and thus a British citizen".[118] Allen argued that the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Minor v. Happersett required a natural-born citizen to be born in the U.S. of two U.S. citizen parents; however, the judge dismissed the suit on March 7, 2012, ruling that "President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution" and that "[c]ontrary to Plaintiff's assertion, Minor v. Happersett ... does not hold otherwise."[119]



Trump's past is well known,


It is? Where are his birth certificates?
Where is the announcements in the papers announcing his birth?


He didn't come out of nowhere, have no one remember him in schools he claimed to attend, and post fake birth certificates.


What are you babbling about?

Obama's history is known, people who attended school/college have spoken about him....

Where are the people who attended school with Trump?


Why a fake BC? Good question.


Well, as Obama did not fake his BC what are you babbling about again? Where is Trump's BC? Funny how you are not demanding his BC....
edit on 4-8-2016 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-8-2016 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 06:02 AM
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a reply to: hellobruce

They just continue the lie despite being shown proof.
They just believe what they want to believe pure ignorance or something worse.



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 07:05 AM
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originally posted by: TheKnightofDoom
They just continue the lie despite being shown proof.
They just believe what they want to believe pure ignorance or something worse.


Very true, the funniest court case that birfers attempted was in Georgia, when they lost (of course) a court case to... a empty chair! Yes, neither Obama or his attorney bothered to turn up, but the birfers did not want to accept a summary judgement, they wanted to present their evidence. Which they did.


Judge Michael Malihi was not pleased with Obama’s lawyers for their failure to show. That tactic force the judge to actually look at the evidence presented and rule that what was presented by the birthers not only does not make the case that Obama is not a natural born citizen, but that the evidence does not even make a prima facie case that further arguments are needed — the evidence sheds no light, it’s “not probative.”


So birfers lost (again) but this time to Mr M. T. Chair!
timpanogos.wordpress.com...

Actual Judgement here.
www.scribd.com... n&from_embed



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: Agartha

Having a foreign BORN parent doesn't preclude being president, having a foreign NATIONAL father or mother DOES.

There is no proviso that the parents be natural born citizens themselves, especially considering that then NO ONE could EVER be a natural born citizen because being born in the country doesn't make you natural born.

Naturalized citizen parents at the time of birth would make you a natural born citizen.

that being said, ABSOLUTELY, anyone who has a foreign national parent should be precluded from EVER becoming president as the constitution sits today...

Jaden



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden
being born in the country doesn't make you natural born.


Yes it does, actually as several court cases haave shown!


ABSOLUTELY, anyone who has a foreign national parent should be precluded from EVER becoming president as the constitution sits today...


According to who? The courts and Congress disagree with you....



posted on Aug, 4 2016 @ 04:21 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: TheKnightofDoom
They just continue the lie despite being shown proof.
They just believe what they want to believe pure ignorance or something worse.


Very true, the funniest court case that birfers attempted was in Georgia...

...So birfers lost (again) but this time to Mr M. T. Chair!



Apparently, ATS mods don't think this is off-topic (it is), but since this comment still sits here, I will field it:

I am not associated with any Obama court cases. This topic has nothing to do with any Obama court cases.

This topic has nothing to do with race or racebaiting. You don't know me. You have no reason to bring such loathsome accusations into this debate.

And ATS made it clear that derogatory terms, like 'Truther' and 'OSer,' are off limits..and here you are throwing the derogatory term, 'birfers' (and 'birthers') around like that's not a manners violation. But I think it's sh*tty.

People are avoiding this thread because of YOU.

And because the Mods don't seem to have any problem with MANY of your posts resorting to Off-Topic (strawman) debates or slinging around derogatory terms, I assume there's no problem with me stating the obvious in response.

You are off-topic, you are rude...these are facts.




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