Humor me, ATS, do you see a RAISED seal on the back of Obama’s short form birth certificate?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527
It's a mystery to all of us but we know why,it's so obvious.

Yeah, I guess the mystery is that people continue to fall for it when the facts are right in front of their faces...

Debossed or Embossed?

Pure facts no opinions no guessing ,no if's and or buts,its fact he was born where he was born, it's fact that he held 2 terms in office, it's fact that he has been a good president and its fact that nobody can do any thing about it.Congrates Barack Hussein Obama II (reportedly born in Honolulu, Hawaii on August 4, 1961) is the 44th President of the United States.

originally posted by: LordAhriman
It's really sad how much of a right wing cesspool this place has turned into recently.

I swear to God i feel the same way and it's just...to much negative, unwanted energy,i never seen this before on any other forum in my life.

a reply to: ImmortalLegend527

Then GO. Like you said you would.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I've been researching and talking about this issue since 2007. Do you think I haven't seen that picture? Perhaps you should give a good read to the page I linked. Or, failing that, look at this picture.

However, that is just how regular Hawaiian birth certificates are. Miss Tickly is an extreme literalist when reading regulations, and if you follow her, you would conclude that Hawaiian birth certificates are all illegal and invalid. One person’s impressed seal is another person’s embossed seal; it just depends on how you look at it. So yes, the seal is impressed, and no, there’s nothing special about Obama’s seal.

People with much more patience and experience than you have looked into this matter.

originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527
I swear to God i feel the same way and it's just...to much negative, unwanted energy,

The only way to change that is to offer up good energy. Please don't leave.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

There's no clear light source in those cropped images, therefore your eye creates one and your eyes tend to think a light source comes from above. That's why you see that illusion.

AGAIN, here is a photo that SHOWS the light source in the background. No optical illusion:





Right side up or upside down..the back of the seal is RAISED.

Again...debunked.


ETA: But if you want to believe that Factcheck.org posted ALL of their photos upside down and were wrong when they labeled the back of the seal as "raised," go ahead.

It sure doesn't say much for them as the definitive source for all things related to Obama's birth certificate.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Read the paragraph! ALL Hawaii birth certificates are like that! Take 4 seconds to say this to yourself... "Perhaps I'm missing some information here. Am I basing my opinion on fact?"...

Are you "Miss Tickly"?

Instead of puking up the same picture time and time again, take a few minutes and READ the source I linked.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Read the paragraph! ALL Hawaii birth certificates are like that! Take 4 seconds to say this to yourself... "Perhaps I'm missing some information here. Am I basing my opinion on fact?"...

You are missing something.

The Hawaii Department of Health vital records regulations promulgated by the Director of Health state the seal used by their agency and the Office of Health Status Monitoring (OHSM) to issue certified copies of vital records must be a "raised" seal:

Hawaii Public Health Regulations, Chapter 8b

2.4 Issuance of Certified Copies of Vital Records
B. Standards for Copies of Vital Records
(1) Standard Copy
(b) Form of certification. Standard certified copies shall contain an appropriate certification statement over the signature of the registrar having custody of the record and be impressed with the RAISED seal of the issuing office. The signature may be photographed or entered by mechanical means. The paper shall display the official seal of the Department of Health or the seal of the State.

and

(2) Abbreviated Copy
(b) Form of certification. This will be the same as for a standard certified copy.

Source

The Hawaii Department of Health seal is regulated and it is required to be "raised."

originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527

originally posted by: LordAhriman
It's really sad how much of a right wing cesspool this place has turned into recently.

I swear to God i feel the same way and it's just...to much negative, unwanted energy,i never seen this before on any other forum in my life.

This is (or was) a conspiracy site. This is (or was) a place where many are highly critical of the government.

When Bush was in power he go the 3rd degree from the members of this site just like Obama. Plenty were claiming Bush was going to declare martial law and turn America into a dictatorship.

The mistake you make is thinking everyone else is as partisan as you.

Disliking Obama doesn't make someone a conservative or a republican. Being anti-government will get you called a conservative or a liberal depending on who is in power. Democrats are currently in power so your partisan brain interprets things as being pro-conservative when it's in fact anti-Obama, anti-government.

But feel free to live in fantasy land where those mean old conservatives just popped up outta nowhere and started bashing Obama on ATS.

ETA:

Forgot to say, as for the OP, this is very interesting. I was never a birther and most of the evidence pushed by them seemed ridiculous to me, but what you post seems to very clearly show SOMETHING is off. If the birth certificate itself isn't suspect then the article that was used to prove it's authenticity sure is.

Don't let the deflectors and cry babies put you off, I appreciate the effort you have put into this and would love it if someone on the "other side" would actually address the information instead of deflecting with typical dismissive and content-lacking posts.

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Oh, come now...I don't believe that most non-Americans are race-baiting piles of crap.

wow....classy and charming.

You don't know me. You are in no position to judge me. Do you know that I specifically bought my home in an integrated neighborhood because I wanted my children to be raised with diverse neighbors? Do you know that I support locally-owned minority businesses with my dollars and not by racebaiting and running my mouth? Do you know that the people in my life that are important to me are diverse?

Here's an answer as to why this subject interested me: I was a Hillary supporter in 2008 -- there's my 'bias.' I felt that Obama dragging his feet on releasing his birth certificate was suspect. I felt the first image he released of the document was suspicious because it did not show the one and only feature that authenticates it: The raised official seal of the Hawaii Department of Health. The Department of Health concurred that this was the reason most people had a hard time accepting the record was authentic. (See the quote in my OP). And note also, in her comment, that she said it was IMPOSSIBLE to say what the first image of Obama's short form birth certificate really represented.

And yet, you continue with this birth certificate business in 2016 when he posted his full one in 2011 with a Hawaian offical confirming it was authentic.

But, please, continue with your racebaiting. It really just shows how you are willing to EXPLOIT feelings of racial injustice -- without a care to the damage that does -- in order to score political points.

I just say how it looks from another country: he was the only one whose legitimacy was queried. No other candidate was asked to do the same and the only thing that's different with Obama is his skin colour. I wouldn't say this if there were threads about Trump's birth legitimacy, despite the fact that his mums is foreign.

And, BTW, the Natural-Born Citizen clause was written specifically to thwart foreign influence...so why should foreign opinions on this particular subject matter one bit?

You are in a public international forum where we all have the right to give our own opinion. Perhaps you don't realize how arrogant your last sentence was.

TextI just say how it looks from another country: he was the only one whose legitimacy was queried. No other candidate was asked to do the same and the only thing that's different with Obama is his skin colour. I wouldn't say this if there were threads about Trump's birth legitimacy, despite the fact that his mums is foreign.

I was born in Italy and raised in Germany and like you said ,this is the only president that has ever had to go through such scrutiny as to have to show one's birth certificate. They say over in this country that black people actually had to show one's paper to show them that they were free slaves and this is what…‘Subliminal ‘they are trying to say and it's sad ,I don’t care how they try mask it.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Instead of puking up the same picture time and time again, take a few minutes and READ the source I linked.

I've read it. It's not new to me.

And I have debunked it several times in this thread, so stop puking it up.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I have read all that before. I have spent HOURS arguing this issue here on ATS. Unless you can prove that other Hawaii BCs are different from Obama's, you have NO CASE.

PLEASE read this one paragraph:

However, that is just how regular Hawaiian birth certificates are. Miss Tickly is an extreme literalist when reading regulations, and if you follow her, you would conclude that Hawaiian birth certificates are all illegal and invalid. One person’s impressed seal is another person’s embossed seal; it just depends on how you look at it. So yes, the seal is impressed, and no, there’s nothing special about Obama’s seal.

And I'm not interested in arguing this further. I just wanted to give you the information. But with as FAST as you're responding to me, it's clear you're not reading or understanding that information. You can lead a horse to water... but you can't make him THINK!

Have a nice day.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527
I swear to God i feel the same way and it's just...to much negative, unwanted energy,

The only way to change that is to offer up good energy. Please don't leave.

I will try will be very hard but will try thanks.

originally posted by: TheKnightofDoom
a reply to: Agartha

I sure hope they do not continue with this crap when he is out of office....

I put my immortal soul that they will ,that's how deeply rooted it is.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Great. I ran a blog on this topic for years. We've both spent time on the topic. There are other alleged Hawaii birth certificates online with the same seal as Obama's and there are others that have different seals. Some are old copies, some are more recent.

And NONE of the owners of the alleged birth certificates bearing the same seal as Obama's would allow the Hawaii Department of Health to authenticate and verify them for me. Therefore they don't prove Obama's short form is authentic.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: ImmortalLegend527

See ya! Don't let the door hit you on your way out!

Can you provide documents as to being a graphic designer ?

originally posted by: James1982

Forgot to say, as for the OP, this is very interesting. I was never a birther and most of the evidence pushed by them seemed ridiculous to me, but what you post seems to very clearly show SOMETHING is off. If the birth certificate itself isn't suspect then the article that was used to prove it's authenticity sure is.

Don't let the deflectors and cry babies put you off, I appreciate the effort you have put into this and would love it if someone on the "other side" would actually address the information instead of deflecting with typical dismissive and content-lacking posts.

Thank you, James! I really appreciate the kind words of encouragement!

a reply to: MotherMayEye

What blog is this, can you provide a link and your certification papers on being a graphic designer?

originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: ImmortalLegend527

See ya! Don't let the door hit you on your way out!

Can you provide documents as to being a graphic designer ?

Like what? How on earth can I do that without exposing my real name?

Besides, the only thing relevant to my profession is the fact that I NOTICED the seal was debossed. And that's exactly what I stated in my OP. Even if I was a construction worker, it wouldn't refute my points.

originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527
a reply to: MotherMayEye

What blog is this, can you provide a link and your certification papers on being a graphic designer?

I closed my blog in 2012. I received an email from a person not known to me that mentioned my very young son by his first name and the person also wished me a happy belated birthday a week after my birthday. I didn't have the intestinal fortitude to continue blogging after that.

You don't get a certification to be a graphic designer. I have a BFA with a concentration in graphic design. And it is a violation of TOS to post my real name, not that I would.