Humor me, ATS, do you see a RAISED seal on the back of Obama’s short form birth certificate?

originally posted by: Maverick7
Is BO a non-US-Born person? We don't know.

We do know, he was born in Hawaii! There is zero evidence to suggest he was born anywhere else.

Is it interesting to talk about it given this embossing conundrum?

There is actually no conundrum, just someone desperately wanting to find something wrong with Obama's Hawaiian Government issued Birth Certificate!

It's really sad how much of a right wing cesspool this place has turned into recently.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: MotherMayEye

One pic looks raised and the other looks like the back.

Correct. You apparently agree with me.

a reply to: Leonidas

Took me a moment to get that, but ha ha!

originally posted by: Agartha
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Most non-Americans see this business about Obama's birth certificate as pure racism: he is the only non-white president, and he is the only president who had to show his birth certificate.

Oh, come now...I don't believe that most non-Americans are race-baiting piles of crap.

You don't know me. You are in no position to judge me. Do you know that I specifically bought my home in an integrated neighborhood because I wanted my children to be raised with diverse neighbors? Do you know that I support locally-owned minority businesses with my dollars and not by racebaiting and running my mouth? Do you know that the people in my life that are important to me are diverse?

Here's an answer as to why this subject interested me: I was a Hillary supporter in 2008 -- there's my 'bias.' I felt that Obama dragging his feet on releasing his birth certificate was suspect. I felt the first image he released of the document was suspicious because it did not show the one and only feature that authenticates it: The raised official seal of the Hawaii Department of Health. The Department of Health concurred that this was the reason most people had a hard time accepting the record was authentic. (See the quote in my OP). And note also, in Janice Okubo's comment, that she said it was IMPOSSIBLE to say what the first image of Obama's short form birth certificate really represented.

But, please, continue with your racebaiting. It really just shows how you are willing to EXPLOIT feelings of racial injustice -- without a care to the damage that does -- in order to score political points.

And, BTW, the Natural-Born Citizen clause was written specifically to thwart foreign influence...so why should foreign opinions on this particular subject matter one bit?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Oh, come now...I don't believe that most non-Americans are race-baiting piles of crap.

wow....classy and charming.

You don't know me. You are in no position to judge me. Do you know that I specifically bought my home in an integrated neighborhood because I wanted my children to be raised with diverse neighbors? Do you know that I support locally-owned minority businesses with my dollars and not by racebaiting and running my mouth? Do you know that the people in my life that are important to me are diverse?

Here's an answer as to why this subject interested me: I was a Hillary supporter in 2008 -- there's my 'bias.' I felt that Obama dragging his feet on releasing his birth certificate was suspect. I felt the first image he released of the document was suspicious because it did not show the one and only feature that authenticates it: The raised official seal of the Hawaii Department of Health. The Department of Health concurred that this was the reason most people had a hard time accepting the record was authentic. (See the quote in my OP). And note also, in her comment, that she said it was IMPOSSIBLE to say what the first image of Obama's short form birth certificate really represented.

And yet, you continue with this birth certificate business in 2016 when he posted his full one in 2011 with a Hawaian offical confirming it was authentic.

But, please, continue with your racebaiting. It really just shows how you are willing to EXPLOIT feelings of racial injustice -- without a care to the damage that does -- in order to score political points.

I just say how it looks from another country: he was the only one whose legitimacy was queried. No other candidate was asked to do the same and the only thing that's different with Obama is his skin colour. I wouldn't say this if there were threads about Trump's birth legitimacy, despite the fact that his mums is foreign.

And, BTW, the Natural-Born Citizen clause was written specifically to thwart foreign influence...so why should foreign opinions on this particular subject matter one bit?

You are in a public international forum where we all have the right to give our own opinion. Perhaps you don't realize how arrogant your last sentence was.

a reply to: Agartha

I sure hope they do not continue with this crap when he is out of office....

a reply to: hellobruce

Birthers, yes. Which watchdog group did though?

Again when did anyone say anything Kenya or tarnishing Obama? Think outside the box.

originally posted by: Agartha
"And, BTW, the Natural-Born Citizen clause was written specifically to thwart foreign influence...so why should foreign opinions on this particular subject matter one bit?"

You are in a public international forum where we all have the right to give our own opinion. Perhaps you don't realize how arrogant your last sentence was.

Give your opinion, I never said you couldn't. But your opinion doesn't matter with regard to this particular clause in the U.S. Constitution. The clause was intended to thwart foreign influence...like yours.

Also, you don't speak for MOST non-Americans, so don't pretend to.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Fascinating.

Maybe you aren't a racist, but you're definitely a "raisist" (or an embossist, whatever).

Hahahah

originally posted by: TheKnightofDoom
I sure hope they do not continue with this crap when he is out of office....

Well, you never know.......

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

Give your opinion, I never said you couldn't. But your opinion doesn't matter with regard to this particular clause in the U.S. Constitution. The clause was intended to thwart foreign influence...like yours.

Also, you don't speak for MOST non-Americans, so don't pretend to.

What about replying to my original questions to you?

Why do you not accept the full birth certificate the White House posted in 2011 with a Hawaian official confirmation of authenticity?

Why other candidates with foreign parents, like Trump, were never asked to show their birth certificates?

a reply to: Agartha

His colour and his funny sounding name that's why he was made to show it and not the other guys because they are white and don't have funny names.
Silly reason but that's why the birther movement came to be.

originally posted by: Agartha
I wouldn't say this if there were threads about Trump's birth legitimacy, despite the fact that his mums is foreign.

And he had two foreign-citizen wives. Does that have any impact on his citizenship? I don't know, but I have looked into it.

I'm no Trump fan. If you want a thread on Trump's citizenship or birth certificate, please start one. I'll participate.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
And he had two foreign-citizen wives. Does that have any impact on his citizenship? I don't know, but I have looked into it.

I'm no Trump fan. If you want a thread on Trump's citizenship or birth certificate, please start one. I'll participate.

I am not saying you are a fan of Trump, my questioning was because I wanted to understand why Obama had to show he was a natural born citizen but others never had to... and the only thing that's different with Obama is his skin colour.

I am not interested in a thread about Trump, I mentioned him to understand why you focus only on Obama. I know you said because you are pro-Hillary..... but why do you not accept his 2011 full birth certificate as proof of his natural citizenship?

^^ This is what I don't understand.

originally posted by: Agartha

What about replying to my original questions to you?

Why do you not accept the full birth certificate the White House posted in 2011 with a Hawaian official confirmation of authenticity?

Why other candidates with foreign parents, like Trump, were never asked to show their birth certificates?

Trump was asked to produce his birth certificate. It could be a fraud, I do not know.

To answer your question on why I don't feel the 2011 release settles the matter, you have to understand how my exploration into Obama's birth certificate actually began:

On July 27, 2009, I first wrote the Hawaii Department of Health and asked if they could confirm they have Obama's AMENDED birth certificate on record.

They responded by issuing a press release and providing it to me, that day, in response to my question. It said:

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008, over eight months ago."

Which was a different message from their original press release from October, 2008, which said:

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”

And because this new press release was provided to me before any press had a copy, I felt the agency answered my question in the affirmative.

"Original birth certificate" became "original vital records." And an Amended birth certificate would be filed with supporting material for an amendment.

Also the "original vital records" were no longer "on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." They were "maintained on file."

Sorry you don't like my opinion, but from my perspective, i got an affirmative answer to my question about Obama having an AMENDED birth certificate.

I've read every reply to this thread. It's fascinating stuff.

I'm indifferent at this point, though, I wonder why MME hasn't addressed hellobruce's post(s) on pg. 12 where he links HRS 338, Section 18.

I like a good old conspiracy theory... but for the life of me, how can even the president of the usa half arse faking a birth certificate, how difficult could it possibly be to just fake the "real thing" and no one would even kniw SURELY he could do that.

originally posted by: CheckPointCharlie
I've read every reply to this thread. It's fascinating stuff.

I'm indifferent at this point, though, I wonder why MME hasn't addressed hellobruce's post(s) on pg. 12 where he links HRS 338, Section 18.

I have responded to that ad nauseam with him elsewhere. But, he is only presenting one statute without regard to the Uniform Information Practices Act which has statutory provisions that allow for the disclosure of certain protected records and information that qualifies under those provisions. There are arguably a few provisions that would allow Obama's birth certificate to be released despite HRS 338.

One of those is the fact THAT IT IS SUPPOSEDLY ALREADY PUBLIC after having been released directly by the Obama campaign and the White House.

A document that is already public cannot be made private, again, somehow. And I provided a link to a formal opinion by the Office of Information Practices that supports this argument, wherein they say after a document has been made public, you "cannot unring that bell."

ETA: And the fact that the Hawaii Department of Health still claims the document is private is enough to make me wonder if we haven't seen what they have on file, at all.

originally posted by: kykweer
I like a good old conspiracy theory... but for the life of me, how can even the president of the usa half arse faking a birth certificate, how difficult could it possibly be to just fake the "real thing" and no one would even kniw SURELY he could do that.

I have answered this, too, several times in this thread.

I gave the rough analogy that printing counterfeit money is a crime. Printing Monopoly money is not because no one can claim to be defrauded by it.

The Hawaii Department of Health's Rules and their regulations specifically state their official seal is "raised" and "embossed." It's practically the only regulated feature of the seal. therefore, no one could argue they seriously believed the debossed seal was authentic.

a reply to: Agartha

It's impossible for Obama to be a natural born citizen, since being a natural born citizen has NOTHING to do with being born in the UNITED STATES. Prior to the 14th amendment being born in the US had NO bearing on citizenship. The natural born citizen clause only had to do with being born to two US citizen parents, to prevent any alternate allegiances in the commander in chief.

Obama's ineligibility has to do with a born allegiance to brittain because of a brittish citizen father.

Jaden