This Trump guy is growing on me.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

No it doesn't. When your words are shocking foreign policy political experts, then you should take note. But I guess expert opinion is irrelevant when it comes to the world of trump and his zealous defenders.

Thanks for the tu quoque fallacy bringing up Hillary btw.

I'm allowed to call you a hypocrite, which is not a fallacy, especially when there is no argument in the first place. What is a fallacy is your ad hom.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I see we are completely dropping the topic at hand to pursue a stupid red herring tangent now. So I guess we are done then?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Perhaps you are. I'm not the one cherry picking and appealing to authority.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

How is appealing to an expert in the field he studies an appeal to authority fallacy? You are on a role here today with the craziness. But then again in the world of Trump, you just believe whatever the hell you want to believe. Facts be damned.

a reply to: bbarkow

I'm starting to lean in that direction as well. Although I always knew I'd support him in the general election against Hillary should he win the nomination, he was never one of my preferred candidates in the GOP primaries. I still have some concerns about him on a number of issues and he runs his mouth a little too much, but overall, I'm starting to like him more and more, especially with his choice of a good conservative VP in Mike Pence (Pence was actually one of my top picks before the primaries to run for president this time around) to help keep him on the right path. I do think he's going to win in November. I just hope he doesn't back off his platform if/when he does.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Kennedy, an elected official, unlike trump called for Russia's help in the 80's get help get rid of Reagan.

Kennedy appeal to Russia to oust Reagan in 1984

Nothing is unprecedented anymore.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You didn't name the experts. There is no way to know if the expert is biased. There is sufficient disagreement. Text-book appeal to authority.

a reply to: Butterfinger

You should read the whole article I posted. It talks about how this has gone on unsaid, but the unprecedented part is how Trump came out and said it in a public setting without being secretive about it. Your example is a private memorandum between Kennedy and the USSR, and at no point are the experts denying that that didn't happen in the past. They are in fact confirming that it DID happen.

Nations pursue their interests, whether other countries like it or not. Great powers in particular, including the United States, often meddle in foreign elections.

But such operations are conducted in secret because they are hostile acts, meant to subvert the will of the targeted country’s population and the sanctity of its institutions. Mr. Trump, in openly inviting such foreign interference, was undercutting one of the most fundamental national interests of a democratic state.

“Nobody ever — and I think I can be confident about this — nobody ever stood up at a podium and said, ‘Bring it on,’” said Jeremy Shapiro, a Brookings Institution scholar of foreign policy, referring to Mr. Trump’s invitation for a foreign power to meddle in his own country’s politics.

Though rare, previous American politicians have looked abroad for help with votes at home.

In 1968, as President Lyndon B. Johnson’s administration tried to broker peace talks in Vietnam, a Republican activist encouraged South Vietnamese officials to resist the talks, which they did. The activist, who represented herself as speaking for the Republican presidential candidate, Richard M. Nixon, said Mr. Nixon would get South Vietnam a better deal. According to documents that were later declassified, a South Vietnamese official was recorded as saying that his government had refused to participate in the talks as a way “to help Nixon.”

More recently, in 2012, the Republican presidential challenger, Mitt Romney, cultivated ties with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel. While Mr. Netanyahu did not explicitly endorse Mr. Romney, he frequently voiced his acute dissatisfaction with President Obama in comments to the American news media.

Three years later, as Mr. Obama tried to strike a nuclear deal with Iran, congressional Republicans invited Mr. Netanyahu to condemn the proposed accord in a speech to Congress.

While this arguably violated the norms of foreign policy by circumventing the White House on a matter of foreign relations, and by inviting an ally to intervene against the president in a domestic political dispute, Mr. Trump went a large step further in soliciting an adversary, and encouraging it to violate United States law on his behalf.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You didn't name the experts. There is no way to know if the expert is biased. There is sufficient disagreement. Text-book appeal to authority.

I don't have to name them. Their names are listed in the article I posted. Now you are admitting you didn't even read my source.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You didn't name the experts. There is no way to know if the expert is biased. There is sufficient disagreement. Text-book appeal to authority.

I don't have to name them. Their names are listed in the article I posted. Now you are admitting you didn't even read my source.

You never gave me any source, which you are now claiming you did.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You didn't name the experts. There is no way to know if the expert is biased. There is sufficient disagreement. Text-book appeal to authority.

I don't have to name them. Their names are listed in the article I posted. Now you are admitting you didn't even read my source.

You never gave me any source, which you are now claiming you did.

Actually I never claimed I specifically gave YOU the source. I just claimed I posted a source, which is what I assumed you were talking about when you accused me of making an appeal to authority fallacy. Now if you weren't referencing even THAT source then you were merely talking out your ass at the time and I really should just stop talking to you. Like that last thread.

But fyi here is the post with the source if you care to actually exercise your mental muscle for a change while talking to me:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

That's fair, I will concede that he shocked a couple foreign policy experts, even if your appeal to authority fails the other conditions of the fallacy.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Well other than shocking foreign policy experts, this is just another Trumpism to me. I've said my piece. I already know that his idiocy and aversion to facts isn't going to change anyone's mind about him at this point so you can continue with your standard daily Trump echo chamber. I'm done here.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Of course you're done here. You never listened to his speech, you never accounted for the fact that he said it probably wasn't the Chinese or Russians but someone sitting on his bed, you took everything out of context, you pretend political hyperbole is incitement to break the constitution, and pretend your gravitation towards media headlines constitutes unbiased reasoning. Anyone can see through your nonsense.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That's besides the point I'm making, but thanks for trying to make the thread about me. It really shows how low brow your arguing techniques have become.

He may be a lot of things, a scoundrel and a blowhard, but I truly believe he loves America, and is sacrificing much to run.

He attacks the establishment and I love that, some of the things he says make me cringe, but he also makes me laugh.

The fact he had to fight both parties proves to me they are corrupt.

His many displays of kindness shown to those in need I find endearing.

I'm for the anti-establishment guy, yet he has inside knowledge and knows how the system screws us.

Obama and Hillary have destabilized the world, I hope we survive until O gets out, we will never survive Hillary.

You have to be madd to think she is a good idea, the world will be in turmoil for years to come because of them, it may never right itself.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Trump said he Hopes they find it, it wasnt a Papal decree for a crusade.

He isnt elected to any official office, who cares if he voiced his opinion that he hopes they find the missing emails.

I dont see anything wrong with this.

Kennedy in public light or not, was and is a paid elected official calling our enemies to overthrow the current(at the time) president.

Thats treason.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I find it strange that someone who is supposed to be "making america great again" would ask a foreign power to break american law to circumvent one of America's oldest traditions established by our most sacred document and none of y'all find that upsetting in the slightest. Even if that was a joke, that is a VERY disturbing thing to hear from the guy who could be holding our nuclear codes in the near future.

Right, because making that joke means he will just nuke someone for no reason. I mean, look at how he has come out provoking Russia in recent days, calling Putin an evil dictator. Oh wait, that is the democrats.

I don't know if you are supporting Hillary or not, but do you trust her with the codes any more? Someone who was instrumental in nation building in Libya, and now giving ISIS a foothold. How about her joking and laughing at the death and torture of Gaddafi. Remember, the guy who warned her and the world that the rebels they were helping were outsider Islamic terrorists.

There were videos online (which I am sure Hillary saw) that showed his death. He was beaten, sodomized with a bayonet, and then paraded around by cheering terrorists before he was ultimately killed. What was Hillary's reaction to this. A large grin while cheerfully exclaiming "We came, we saw, he died!"

Yep, that sounds like a real stable person to have the nuclear codes.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That's besides the point I'm making, but thanks for trying to make the thread about me. It really shows how low brow your arguing techniques have become.

Says the guy making personal attacks. Don't bother projecting. I was attempting to debate, you were attempting to run, but only after you took someone else's opinion and tried to pass it off as your own.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Lol, Trump is human and the Reptiles are getting scared.