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You May Just Be a Noahide

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posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 04:46 PM
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Do you believe that the one true God instructed prophet Noah with moral guidelines by which all nations descending from him should live their lives and be ruled by their Kings, Queens, Judges, and Elders?

If so, you may just be a Noahide.

Do you believe that the one true God spoke to Moses and gave him the Torah to be an everlasting covenant between Him and Israel?

If so, you may just be a Noahide.

Do you believe that the Jews are God's chosen people?

If so, you may just be a Noahide.

Do you believe that all people on Earth are required by the one true God to:
(1) not worship false gods,
(2) not murder,
(3) not steal,
(4) not be sexually immoral,
(5) not eat a limb removed from a live animal,
(6) not blaspheme,
(7) Set up or live under the jurisdiction of a court system?

If so, you may just be a Noahide.

Do you believe that Messiah will come and set up a World government with its capital in Jerusalem, and that all nations on Earth will pay tribute and worship the one true God on Zion?

If so, then you may just be a Noahide.
If you believe all these things and you are not of the tribe of Judah then you are most assuredly a Noahide. Because that is all that that means.

edit on 27-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: pthena

I agree with most of it.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

There is some debate whether you will be allowed to have a share in the world to come.


Christianity and Noahide Law
Within Judaism it is a matter of debate whether all Christians should be considered Noahides.

While Christianity appears to conform to six of the seven Noahide laws, an informal comparison of the Nicene Creed and Noahide Law reveals that three major theological teachings may involve a violation of the Noahide prohibition against idolatry.
##Equating Jesus with G-d
##Equating the Holy Spirit with G-d
##Jesus as Savior (in his proposed capacity as G-d)

However, these theological issues do not fit the classical Jewish definition of idolatry. This has caused disagreement among rabbinic authorities on the question of the permissibility of Christianity for non-Jews. (All authorities forbid Christianity for Jews).

Another consideration would be that even if Christians are considered at least partially observant Noahides, are they Chasidei Umos HaOlam or Chochmei Umos HaOlam? The former are considered to have a share in the world to come because they recognize Noahide Law as being revealed through mosaic (rabbinic) tradition, the latter are not considered to have a share in the world to come because they follow Noahide Law based on intellectual expediency.[1]

In summary, classical idolatry has been clearly defined by Jewish Law. Christianity, however, has been defined as something less. The problem is defining how much less, and for what purposes.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 07:10 PM
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a reply to: pthena

Well, I'm glad the Holy Spirit pointed me to the cross and Jesus than their decrees. He did pronounce spiritual blindness on them, and Paul says it will be that way for the most part until the fullness of the Gentiles come into the kingdom of God. Many will come into a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ by the preaching of the 144,000 sealed evangelists and the two witnesses during the last 7 years of this current age. But sadly, the OT says during that time 2/3 of them will be killed/martyred.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical


Paul says it will be that way for the most part until the fullness of the Gentiles come into the kingdom of God.


Romans 15 WEB
8Now I say that Christ has been made a servant of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given to the fathers,

9and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy
...
the grace that was given to me by God, 16that I should be a servant of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, serving as a priest the Good News of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be made acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
...
25But now, I say, I am going to Jerusalem, serving the saints. 26For it has been the good pleasure of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are at Jerusalem. 27Yes, it has been their good pleasure, and they are their debtors. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, they owe it to them also to serve them in fleshly things. 28When therefore I have accomplished this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will go on by way of you to Spain.



Seven Laws of Noah Punishment
In practice Jewish law makes it very difficult to apply the death penalty. No record exists of a gentile having been put to death for violating the seven laws. Some of the categories of capital punishment recorded in the Talmud are recorded as having never have been carried out. It is thought that the rabbis included discussion of them in anticipation of the coming messianic age.

The Talmud lists the punishment for blaspheming the Ineffable Name of God as death. The sons of Noah are to be executed by decapitation for most crimes, considered one of the lightest capital punishments, by stoning if he has intercourse with a Jewish betrothed woman, or by strangulation if the Jewish woman has completed the marriage ceremonies, but had not yet consummated the marriage. In Jewish law the only form of blasphemy which is punishable by death is blaspheming the Ineffable Name Leviticus 24:16. Some Talmudic rabbis held that only those offences for which a Jew would be executed, are forbidden to gentiles. The Talmudic rabbis discuss which offences and sub-offences are capital offences and which are merely forbidden.

Maimonides states that anyone who does not accept the seven laws is to be executed, as God compelled the world to follow these laws. However, for the other prohibitions such as the grafting of trees and bestiality he holds that the sons of Noah are not to be executed

This may not apply to you specifically, but Hundreds of Millions of dollars are harvested each year from Christian Churches to go toward building and maintaining and defending Jewish settlements on Palestinian lands, in hopes of bringing about the "redemption" ie purging of a certain geographical location, so as to bring this current age of the World to an end.

When the Messianic age is ushered in. Every nation will be required by the Rabbinical council to accept the 7 laws and execute by beheading all blasphemers. Do you think that perhaps calling Jesus "Lord" may be determined to be blasphemy by the Rabbinical council at some future date and therefore punishable by beheading? Do you think it is wise for Christians to pay for the axes that will possibly behead them?
edit on 27-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 07:54 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
Do you believe that the one true God instructed prophet Noah with moral guidelines by which all nations descending from him should live their lives and be ruled by their Kings, Queens, Judges, and Elders?

If so, you may just be a Noahide.

No.The creator God does not communicate through any form of religion because it is the anthesis of knowing that could only be communicated through direct revelation to the individual about “only” that individual by the creator God.All else is religious belief(the religious doctrines of men)


originally posted by: pthena
Do you believe that the one true God spoke to Moses and gave him the Torah to be an everlasting covenant between Him and Israel?If so, you may just be a Noahide.


No.The “Torah” is a convention of men.It contains what is called the Pentateuch(the 1st 5 books of what is called the Tanakh) and the perushigm (rabbinic teachings)They are all religious teachings of mean nothing more.The clear fact is the nation of Israel has not existed for almost 3,000 years when they split into 2 kingdoms The Northern kingdom which maintained the name Israel and the Southern kingdom Judah.In about 720BCE Israel was taken into captivity by the Assyrians and later assimilated into the nations never to be the nation of Israel again nor ever will be.Israel (which means struggles with Elohim) is the archetype of ALL of mankind.


originally posted by: pthena
Do you believe that the Jews are God's chosen people?If so, you may just be a Noahide.


Definitely and emphatically no.The Jewish(the Southern kingdom) history began at the split of the nation of Israel (approximately 920 BCE) and is greatly diverse and they have also been dispersed into the nations.It is impossible to trace a modern Jew to the Southern kingdom Jew that split from the nation of Israel.The biggest misconstruing is an Israelite is a Jew.The fact is some Jews were Israelites, never the other way around because the Jew did not exist until the split of the nation of Israel.The modern nation of Israel Jews are not a nation of genetic people descendant of Jacob(Israel) because there are zero facts to support that theory it is all religious speculation.The false belief that Jews are the chosen people is a extrapolation by modern Jews and Christians is patently false and has no basis in simple facts of history it is only religious rhetoric.


originally posted by: pthena
Do you believe that all people on Earth are required by the one true God to:
(1) not worship false gods,
(2) not murder,
(3) not steal,
(4) not be sexually immoral,
(5) not eat a limb removed from a live animal,
(6) not blaspheme,
(7) Set up or live under the jurisdiction of a court system?

If so, you may just be a Noahide.


No.The creator God does not “require” laws of all people.Those that are NOT morally and ethically corrupt do not need to be compelled by the laws of men to act morally and ethically only those that are corrupt do.One of the laws purpose is to help protect the others from the moral and ethically corrupt who need laws.


originally posted by: pthena
Do you believe that Messiah will come and set up a World government with its capital in Jerusalem, and that all nations on Earth will pay tribute and worship the one true God on Zion?If so, then you may just be a Noahide.

Absolutely no.Those are doctrines of men religious fantasy extrapolated from the “bible” by the corrupt religious nature of man with no basis in truth.The fact is Yahoshua was not and is not the Jewish messiah(anointed) billions believe.The Jews of his time were awaiting the “conquering” messiah to free them from their oppressors.Those who believe(Christians) he will be the conquering messiah who doles out the revenge of their God killing billions and sets up rule in the city of Jerusalem are more deceived and pervereted than the Jews of his time.


originally posted by: pthena
If you believe all these things and you are not of the tribe of Judah then you are most assuredly a Noahide. Because that is all that that means.


Good, then I am most assuredly not of the tribe of Judah(Judas real name).The religious construct of the Noahide law is just as false as Christianity.It is made up laws and doctrines of men religion extrapolated from book they do not understand in the least.These laws sole benevolent purpose is to compel those that are morally and ethically corrupt to act in opposition to their corrupt nature and character(the definition of a name)


edit on 27-7-2016 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 08:09 PM
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a reply to: Rex282

Be sure to close some of the quotes in your post.


The creator God does not communicate through any form of religion because it is the anthesis of knowing that could only be communicated through direct revelation to the individual about “only” that individual by the creator God.
. . .
Israel (which means struggles with Elohim) is the archetype of ALL of mankind.

As the archetype, would that be archetype for each person, collective people, or both?

I wanted to quote from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, but couldn't find the quote. Next best thing:

John 21:20Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”) 21When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”

22Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”





edit on 27-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: pthena

Please explain what Noahide means.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


Noahidism (/ˈnoʊə.haɪd.ɪsm/) or Noachidism (/ˈnoʊə.xaɪd.ɪsm/) is a monotheistic ideology based on the Seven Laws of Noah, and on their traditional interpretations within Rabbinic Judaism.
...
Those who subscribe to the observance of these commandments are referred to as Bene Noach (B'nei Noah) (Hebrew: בני נח‎‎), Children of Noah, Noahides (/ˈnoʊ.ə.haɪdᵻs/), or Noahites (/ˈnoʊ.ə.haɪtᵻs/).
en.wikipedia.org...

For this thread, I'm referring to the actual beliefs, whether taught by the Rabbis themselves or from some other source, such as the Bible or Christian preachers or from current social milieu (osmosis from TV, movies, newspapers, internet forums, etc).
edit on 27-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 05:46 AM
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I wonder how the tale of Utanapishtim, which is the model of the fable of Noah's Ark, would impact the belief in a so called Noahide Covenant that has been established in the minds of adherants to it.

Because it is probably a 1,000 years older and obviously the Hebrew version of a Mesopotamian myth.

Also Noah didn't have Jews in his lifetime so using his name as a Jew vs non-Jew division of law is illogical and most Jews today don't even descend from Israel or Judah and aren't Semites either.

I smell a scam.
edit on 28-7-2016 by Paralogos because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 06:08 AM
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a reply to: pthena

Are you familiar with Maimonides? I know very little about him but if he said that I wouldn't be surprised if it caused an outrage in his country which I think was Spain or Portugal. Regardless, Jews have been expelled from more nations than any peoples despite their small numbers, and the Nation of Israel and the political Zionist movement are their revenge on both Christian and Muslim alike.

Generations may pass but the Jew never forgets. The Rothschild's engineered the downfall of the Czar of Russia with Lenin and that was revenge for a previous generations Czar pledging support for Lincoln against their ambitions of establishing a central bank in America (pretty sure that's the reason).

As was promised revenge was taken on Czarist Russia and when Stalin came to power (possible "crypto Jew") more Russians died in more atrocities than the Holocaust with endless purges.

These are NOT people you want to let rule your behavior by implementing their concepts.

If you need a fable to act like a decent human being than you aren't actually decent.

Just afraid, obedient, docile and/or naive.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 06:18 AM
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a reply to: pthena

Do you know how this is applies to Samaritan or the Ethiopian Jews? I know that to benefit from the law of return you must acknowledge and accept Halachic law even if you have Israelite/Judahite blood and are a strict Torah only Jew like the Samaritans or the non-Talmudic Jews of the world who accept the whole Tanakh.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: Paralogos

Welcome to ATS.

Utanapishtim was not a monotheist so he would not qualify as a Noahide.
Deucalion wasn't either, so ...


Because it is probably a 1,000 years older and obviously the Hebrew version of a Mesopotamian myth.

Gilgamesh himself who, according to the epic tales, took the journey to visit Utanapishtim, would have lived sometime between 2800 and 2500 BC. Compare to Moses, the supposed author of Genesis, who, if he existed, would have been between 1480 and 1200 BC. So, yes, a difference of 1300 years.



I smell a scam.

I was originally thinking of starting the thread in the Conspiracies in Religion sub-forum, but was too lazy to work up the conspiracy angle. But now that you mention it.

Humans, for the most part, live within certain time boundaries. We're born, slowly become aware of our surroundings, develop a sense of individuality, learn a language from people around us, and then start learning about the past. We aren't born with a knowledge of History. That we must learn gradually.

The scam is that people, through religious dogma, impose limits upon developing minds as to how far or wide the search for History and the past may go. And it works. Anecdotal evidence exists that would suggest that certain people have been mentally and emotionally crippled in such a way that their worldview is very narrow, and that their sense of the past is very shallow.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 09:38 AM
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What's the difference between a Noahhide and a normal Jew, all sounds the same



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

A normal Jew has a mind superior enough to comprehend "God". A Noahide, as a non-Jew must rely upon the instruction of the Jew to get a dumbed down version of what and who "God" is.

From G.D, to the Jew, to the Non-Jew.

The above description is from the teaching, not my personal belief.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: pthena

Thanks.

I just meant that the story was modeled on an older story and not fact like I imagine a Noahide believes.

Uta and Noah are culturally different myths but one being based on the other should be enough to tell anyone that Noahide law is a scam.

Should be. Like the post btw I tried clicking the flag and it didn't work but I will keep trying and gave it a star.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: Paralogos

Thank you,

I only post on ATS for the stars and flags.

I haven't gotten to all your questions yet. I'm slow, and take many breaks. Some of them due warrant an investigation.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: pthena

Thank you
Strange, I was under the belief Gentiles could convert to Judaism, these Noahides can't or dont, strange
It's evidently hard to become a Jew

Interesting, never heard of them, leaves me with more questions



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: Paralogos


Also Noah didn't have Jews in his lifetime so using his name as a Jew vs non-Jew division of law is illogical and most Jews today don't even descend from Israel or Judah and aren't Semites either.

The question of whether Noah existed as an historic figure or not has relevance. Obviously, if a person does not believe that Noah was the man from whom all humans descended, that shoots the premise down. That person has no reason to consider herself to be a Noahide.

If a person does not consider Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to be the pure source from which "knowledge of the true god" comes, not only should that person not consider himself a Noahide, but also she should not even care about who may or may not be descended from "the true line", it would be irrelevant to that person. The question of who is truly a descendent of Israel(Jacob) and who is not, is relevant only to those whose religion revolves around that so called "single pure channel of knowledge of god".

It is a fact that there are people who identify themselves as Jews. It is a fact that many are atheists, agnostics, and various kind of agnostic, but not quite, and labels don't really apply-ness. Let's look at one:

Bill Maher Religion
Maher is highly critical of all religion and views it as highly destructive. He has been described, or self-identified, variously as an agnostic, atheist, and apatheist, while objecting to having his views defined by a single label. In his 2008 feature film Religulous, he refers to himself as agnostic. He has rejected being grouped with explicit atheists, saying in 2002, "I'm not an atheist. There's a really big difference between an atheist and someone who just doesn't believe in religion. Religion to me is a bureaucracy between man and God that I don't need. But I'm not an atheist, no." Maher has also occasionally referred to himself as an apatheist, saying in 2011 "I don't know what happens when you die, and I don't care." When discussing his apatheism and his views on the existence of God, he said on a scale from 1 to 7 (7 being "absolutely certain there is no god"), he was only at 6.9,

So from his descriptions, I would label him as a no-label-applies-er. Does that necessarily mean that he has no religion?

I would have to say no. He does have a religion. I saw evidence of his religion displayed during his famous documentary Religulous. He was never uncomfortable discussing other people's religion, they were not personal to him. But when his own religion was discussed he became quite agitated and had to walk away from the discussion. His religion is the Holocaust and the "right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state."

I can't post the documentary from youtube, because it's blocked by copyright holder. The section I'm referring to though is his interview with Ultra-Orthodox anti-Zionist people who had attended a Holocaust investigation conference in Iran. That's the point at which he is faced by a person who, while discussing his religion, disagrees with his religion.



Jews have been expelled from more nations than any peoples despite their small numbers, and the Nation of Israel and the political Zionist movement are their revenge on both Christian and Muslim alike.

Generations may pass but the Jew never forgets.

That's one way of putting it. If one were able to scan the history of humanity, and see the migrations, forced migrations, rise and disappearance of tribes, languages, nations, cultures, wars, overthrows, extinctions, etc.; there would be no reason to conclude that somehow the Jews are unique in suffering.

But, the Holocaust has become for them a new Exodus, the new religiously significant beginning of a "special people", and by ... they will make sure that every human on Earth will bow down at the Holy Holocaust shrines and weep and cry "Never Again" as long as Palestinians are excluded from "that which must never happen again".

Now I realize how evil and wicked I am to suggest that that's what Jewishness is all about, yes there are many exceptions, and it's evil to lump whole groups of people together and then stereotype them. Yes, I am excluded from the world to come, and all that, but seriously, that is the current Jewish identity "Those who came out of Holocaust".

edit on 28-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: pthena

I believe labels are not worth entertaining.

I believe we are spirits inhabiting a body.

I believe we are all one and shouldn't divide our self from others.

I believe we should love our neighbor as our self.

I believe in love and this love will conquer over all the labels which divide us.




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