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Can anyone understand spiritual truths?

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posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 12:19 PM
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I'm placing this within quotes, since formatting is not working.




#1 Many scriptures in the Bible inform us during the days of Christ ministry that the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, Lawyers, and men such as Saul, Nicodemus and many others were oblivious of spiritual truths.

How is it possible that all of these men who made it their practice to study the Tanakh and scrolls of the prophets were so ignorant of God's truths?

WHY?

#2 In the Gospels every time Christ expounded his teachings to his Disciples he made a
difference between His Disciples, and those who were not. Let's read..

In Matthew Chapter 13 the Son of God teaches a parable concerning a Sower went forth to Sow.
Later his Disciples come to the Son of God and ask him; "Why speakest thou unto them in parables?" (Mat 13:10)

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (Mat 13:11)

The Son of God makes it plain that spiritual truths are granted to His Disciples, but to them it is not given.
Them refers to everyone who is not one of Christ Disciples.

This same theme is recorded over and over in the Gospels

Mat 11:25
Mark 4:11
Luke 8:10

Scriptures that indicate scriptural truths are 'revealed' and taught by God. (Key verses placed with star)

Mat 11:27
John 6:45*
John 6:65
John 16:15
Act's 16:14
1 Cor 2:9-10*
1 Cor 2:14*
Eph 4:21
I Thess 4:9
James 1:17
1 John 2:27
1 Pet 1:12
Eph 1:17

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and REVELATION in the knowledge of him.

Why would Paul pray that the Disciples be granted the spirit of wisdom and revelation?

The next verse gives us the answer;
The EYES OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING BEING ENLIGHTENED; that ye may KNOW what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power. Eph 1:18-19

The wheat and the tares grow together, but only Christ Disciples are granted the spirit of wisdom and revelation.

Look what the Son of God spoke;

Even the Spirit of truth; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth
him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:17)

The Son of God in his parable of the Sower went forth to Sow taught that an 'enemy' sowed the Tares. An enemy sowing tares along with the fact that only the wheat are taught by God is why there are thousands of different Denominations teaching a smörgåsbord of doctrines deceiving, and being deceived.


This is of course a hard doctrine for many. Especially for
those who think there much study, or theological degrees
somehow guarantee them an understanding to know spiritual truths.
edit on 7/27/2016 by MrBlaq because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/27/2016 by MrBlaq because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: MrBlaq

A important key to all of this is the resurrection .Prior to that ,the scriptures were ambiguous and the cross was a mystery that had been hidden in God .Even the prophets didn't understand what they were writing about . The house of David being re-built had no context in the history of Israel . I get a kick out of people who claim to be spiritual but not religious .But if our language can be ambiguous then so too can our spirituality ...peace



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: MrBlaq
I'm placing this within quotes, since formatting is not working.




#1 Many scriptures in the Bible inform us during the days of Christ ministry that the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, Lawyers, and men such as Saul, Nicodemus and many others were oblivious of spiritual truths.

How is it possible that all of these men who made it their practice to study the Tanakh and scrolls of the prophets were so ignorant of God's truths?

WHY?

#2 In the Gospels every time Christ expounded his teachings to his Disciples he made a
difference between His Disciples, and those who were not. Let's read..

In Matthew Chapter 13 the Son of God teaches a parable concerning a Sower went forth to Sow.
Later his Disciples come to the Son of God and ask him; "Why speakest thou unto them in parables?" (Mat 13:10)

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (Mat 13:11)

The Son of God makes it plain that spiritual truths are granted to His Disciples, but to them it is not given.
Them refers to everyone who is not one of Christ Disciples.

This same theme is recorded over and over in the Gospels

Mat 11:25
Mark 4:11
Luke 8:10

Scriptures that indicate scriptural truths are 'revealed' and taught by God. (Key verses placed with star)

Mat 11:27
John 6:45*
John 6:65
John 16:15
Act's 16:14
1 Cor 2:9-10*
1 Cor 2:14*
Eph 4:21
I Thess 4:9
James 1:17
1 John 2:27
1 Pet 1:12
Eph 1:17

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and REVELATION in the knowledge of him.

Why would Paul pray that the Disciples be granted the spirit of wisdom and revelation?

The next verse gives us the answer;
The EYES OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING BEING ENLIGHTENED; that ye may KNOW what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power. Eph 1:18-19

The wheat and the tares grow together, but only Christ Disciples are granted the spirit of wisdom and revelation.

Look what the Son of God spoke;

Even the Spirit of truth; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth
him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:17)

The Son of God in his parable of the Sower went forth to Sow taught that an 'enemy' sowed the Tares. An enemy sowing tares along with the fact that only the wheat are taught by God is why there are thousands of different Denominations teaching a smörgåsbord of doctrines deceiving, and being deceived.


This is of course a hard doctrine for many. Especially for
those who think there much study, or theological degrees
somehow guarantee them an understanding to know spiritual truths.


The problem with "spiritual truths".

They only exist in your head.

Scriptures that indicate scriptural truths are 'revealed' and taught by God.


If the only way to gain spiritual truths is to speak with god in your head, then any crazy person with an idea can spout that they have recieved "spiritual truth". Simply the act of claiming divine revelation, becomes (at least in the claimants head) a "spiritual truth". Which is somehow not admissable into "real" truth status, as it cannot be proven since it only happens in someone's head. The problem here is more that you are looking for spiritual anything when by most standards it isn't a thing to be found by material means.

What worries me is that you are looking for truth in a collection of books written thousands of years ago and arbitrarily chosen and rewritten in such a way as to best manipulate a population of Romans into believing that the church had actual meaningful answers. Oh and tithing.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: MrBlaq
That depends on how you define "spiritual truths". Every religion and philosophy attempt to make their "truth" proprietary, which should be the first red flag for anyone seeking understanding and/or "enlightenment".

edit on 7/27/2016 by Klassified because: quotes



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: MrBlaq

A important key to all of this is the resurrection .Prior to that ,the scriptures were ambiguous and the cross was a mystery that had been hidden in God .Even the prophets didn't understand what they were writing about . The house of David being re-built had no context in the history of Israel . I get a kick out of people who claim to be spiritual but not religious .But if our language can be ambiguous then so too can our spirituality ...peace
I don't know if there is anything more ambiguous than "spirituality". The thing has no definition that stands up to scrutiny.


Even the prophets didn't understand what they were writing about .
there is something i will agree with you on. They certainly never expected that you would be the one to figure it out either. How about i pop some popcorn and sit down while you tell me what the bible really meant.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: MrBlaq

An enemy sowing tares along with the fact that only the wheat are taught by God is why there are thousands of different Denominations teaching a smörgåsbord of doctrines deceiving, and being deceived.

So if I understand this correctly, the devil and his minions spread deceitful and erroneous versions of the truth that have now become a variety of Christian doctrines which deceive many who think that they are following the 'true' teaching of the Bible? Did I get that part right?

Ok then, how about this part? That, as an unbeliever, were I to want to become a Christian I could read the Bible upside down and backwards, study night and day, go to seminaries and spend long years garnering understanding of it's spiritual truths,,,,, and still be wrong?

This pops up into my mind again. " THOUSANDS of different denominations teaching a smorgasbord " of deception.

So, into this smorgasbord of doctrines you promote this one. Is that right? If so, can you please explain, now that I have at least 1000 +1 doctrines to make my attempts at understanding spiritual truths, how am I, a sinner, tossed and turned in all directions by a fallen angel who God Himself has allowed to befuddle the minds of men for all of our time on earth, just how am I to discern the truth of what this says over all the other doctrines that are the devils doctrines. Just how?
What this all seems to me, is that finding the right Christian path is nothing more than a spiritual crap shoot.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Get a comfy chair and have a seat. There will be a line of folks here shortly to explain it to us.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: MrBlaq
Paul supplies AN answer.
We understand spiritual truths through the Spirit.
"For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God... No one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God" (1 Corinthians ch2 vv10-11).
That's why the Spirit needs to be at both ends of Christian teaching, touching the one doing the teaching AND the one doing the listening.
Then the teacher is interpreting PNEUMATIKOIS PNEUMATIKA- "spiritual things to spiritual people" (v13).
There is no magic formula otherwise.



edit on 27-7-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver




How about i pop some popcorn and sit down while you tell me what the bible really meant.
What it may have been though to have meant was surely not what the NT writers could have figured out without the cross and resurrection . As any new believer should understand is that you are entering into a convent relationship with God and it is Him that will work out all of the details including the spiritual nature of it . We as believers are only slightly active in the process and will have to trust that God will finish His work in us .



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver




If the only way to gain spiritual truths is to speak with god in your head, then any crazy person with an idea can spout that they have recieved "spiritual truth". Simply the act of claiming divine revelation, becomes (at least in the claimants head) a "spiritual truth". Which is somehow not admissable into "real" truth status, as it cannot be proven since it only happens in someone's head. The problem here is more that you are looking for spiritual anything when by most standards it isn't a thing to be found by material means. What worries me is that you are looking for truth in a collection of books written thousands of years ago and arbitrarily chosen and rewritten in such a way as to best manipulate a population of Romans into believing that the church had actual meaningful answers. Oh and tithing.


I can only assume by your response that you must be an atheist, and one who
does not believe the Bible. All of the prophets of God in the Bible received
revelation. So according to your definition they should have been picked up
and taken to an insane asylum. LOL

Thanks for the laugh. -smiles-



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: MrBlaq

You worded your post so badly that everyone thinks you're asking questions.

Your questions were rhetorical weren't they?



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: Klassified




which should be the first red flag for anyone seeking understanding and/or "enlightenment".


Really you're blaming God for not granting EVERYONE a knowledge of spiritual truth.

Man in his pride assumes since he's taking the time to SEEK for knowledge,
he therefore DESERVES it.

Read the following and you'll see God grants such things to whom he CHOOSES, man
does not have anything to do with it.



For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:15-22)
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it,
Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much
longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


I'll add this, God will reveal many wonderful truths to ALL of mankind,
but the majority will not be granted that until after the resurrection
and subsequent judgment of the ungodly. You may not realize this,
But it's not God's plan to punish mankind for eternity, but that's
another topic entirely.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire




So if I understand this correctly, the devil and his minions spread deceitful and erroneous versions of the truth that have now become a variety of Christian doctrines which deceive many who think that they are following the 'true' teaching of the Bible? Did I get that part right? Ok then, how about this part? That, as an unbeliever, were I to want to become a Christian I could read the Bible upside down and backwards, study night and day, go to seminaries and spend long years garnering understanding of it's spiritual truths,,,,, and still be wrong? This pops up into my mind again. " THOUSANDS of different denominations teaching a smorgasbord " of deception. So, into this smorgasbord of doctrines you promote this one. Is that right? If so, can you please explain, now that I have at least 1000 +1 doctrines to make my attempts at understanding spiritual truths, how am I, a sinner, tossed and turned in all directions by a fallen angel who God Himself has allowed to befuddle the minds of men for all of our time on earth, just how am I to discern the truth of what this says over all the other doctrines that are the devils doctrines. Just how? What this all seems to me, is that finding the right Christian path is nothing more than a spiritual crap shoot.


How would you or anyone else understand unless the Spirit of God is the teacher?
But your dilemma can be answered with one scripture.



And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2Thess 2:11



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI




Paul supplies AN answer. We understand spiritual truths through the Spirit. "For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God... No one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God" (1 Corinthians ch2 vv10-11). That's why the Spirit needs to be at both ends of Christian teaching, touching the one doing the teaching AND the one doing the listening. Then the teacher is interpreting PNEUMATIKOIS PNEUMATIKA- "spiritual things to spiritual people" (v13). There is no magic formula otherwise.


I agree with you, but the Spirit is not granted to everyone.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: Bleeeeep




You worded your post so badly that everyone thinks you're asking questions. Your questions were rhetorical weren't they?


It's not meant for everyone



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: MrBlaq
Indeed. Some people remain PSYCHIKOS (ch2 v14) - "natural", "unspiritual", influenced only by their human PSYCHE intead of by the Spirit.
But here we can get into the old argument about how much this is by God's choice, and how much by their own choice.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI



Indeed. Some people remain PSYCHIKOS (ch2 v14) - "natural", "unspiritual", influenced only by their human PSYCHE intead of by the Spirit.But here we can get into the old argument about how much this is by God's choice, and how much by their own choice.


In my understand it's by God's choice.
From Genesis to Revelation, we see the same pattern repeated over and over
of God choosing men and women.

In the Old Testment persons such as Noah, Samuel, David, Rebekah, Jeremiah,
Elisha and many others.

In the New Testament one can find this pattern repeated by just looking up
the words chose, chosen, call, calling, and elect in the New Testament


edit on 7/27/2016 by MrBlaq because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: MrBlaq


Really you're blaming God for not granting EVERYONE a knowledge of spiritual truth.

I'm not blaming "god" for anything. The god of the bible doesn't exist, so it's hard to blame him for anything, except philosophically.


Man in his pride assumes since he's taking the time to SEEK for knowledge, he therefore DESERVES it.

Yes actually. Humans do deserve the knowledge AND the truth they seek. Pride has nothing to do with it.


Read the following and you'll see God grants such things to whom he CHOOSES, man does not have anything to do with it.

As I said, the biblical gods do not exist, and the bible is a book of pseudo-history, pseudo-science, and fairy tales. It is no more "gods" word than our word is, since it was written by men, and is full of errors, contradiction, and lies.

Spirituality is about the individual, and their relationship with themselves first, and the reality around them second, not a 2000 year old cult.



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 02:50 PM
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Reply to: Klassified



As I said, the biblical gods do not exist, and the bible is a book of pseudo-history, pseudo-science, and fairy tales. It is no more "gods" word than our word is, since it was written by men, and is full of errors, contradiction, and lies.
Spirituality is about the individual, and their relationship with themselves first, and the reality around them second, not a 2000 year old cult.


Since your words are also written by a man, should one conclude from your perspective
that what you've written is also is full of errors, contradiction and lies?

See how silly that is?

Try taking a little time to think about the concept you just wrote. If there was any
truth that what's written by men has no basis of truth, then EVERYTHING on planet
earth spoken from Doctors, Scientist and even your neighborhood plumber
could never be accepted as factual.

I don't think you understand what you're writing.



edit on 7/27/2016 by MrBlaq because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2016 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: MrBlaq

I think you make a reasonable argument in your response . "come let us reason together " by God was something I couldn't turn down . I had often wondered if I somehow didn't do or think the correct way in approaching God's salvation in His Son was detrimental to me . I realize now that God meets us where we are .There is no climbing up to Him .He had to come to us because we were the ones that were lost . Any way I just wanted to drop this short interview off for any one thinking about our faith and the rational behind it . It turns out to be interesting and in no way goes against and human principal of excepting something to believe in ..




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