Peak Irony: Mexico Wants To Build The Wall To Stop Illegal Immigration

a reply to: TrueBrit

Right, but the wall was never intended to stop people overstaying visa's. It can't do that. It is not designed to stop people who are able to get visa and come here. It's the ones who can't get visas for whatever reason, no job, criminal record, ect.

It can make it significantly easier for boarder patrol to stop the so called 'worst of the worst' that are coming in.
Of course, people could always dig deeper, ect. like you say, but the fact that it would take more time and effort, would make it easier for authorities to stop them. Same for going around it.
As for the 'reverse immigration', they way I understood it, a large percentage of the ones going back, were here illegally anyway. I'm sure they would open the gate to get those people back to their rightful homes. As for the others, they would have to follow the rules to cross into Mexico.
You can't deny, that a wall, a good one, will make it easier for boarder control to stop undesirables from getting in.

You have made a somewhat decent case as to how the wall might be ineffective, in some ways, but can you argue that it is a bad idea?

a reply to: thov420

www.theguardian.com...

There's one source, there are more.

If you look at the sum total of what Trump has said about Muslims, you get the impression that the only thing he learned from the Second World War as a historical event, was crowd control. Frankly he is a monster, upon whom I would not urinate to extinguish, in the event of his spontaneous combustion. He is literally the candidate of sacrifice of Liberty in favour of security, because a lot of the measures he is juggling in his head right now, would involve WAY more loss of Liberty and privacy invasion for EVERYONE, than most people realise.

originally posted by: Skid Mark
Walls work. Nobody can possibly tunnel under them.

Drug runners and human traffickers and all other types of criminals already employ tunnels to avoid detection. That's not really what the wall is designed to stop, although it would stop some of that. While the amount of illegals in the U.S. seems to have relatively leveled off since the "Great Recession" (which isn't suprising--if there aren't any jobs, why make the perilous journey?), prior to that, it was increasing by about one million (or more) illegals per year. That many people were not sneaking through tunnels--the majority cross on land.

A wall is meant to stop the majority. We all know that walls don't stop everyone. In fact, I'm not sure what point you're trying to get across; at least if people have to rely on climbing out of holes, that's a lot easier to control than nearly 2,000 miles of relatively unprotected border.

And it seems that people are still coming in, but roughly the same number are leaving (or other things), so there's that, too. At least with a wall, the number might continue to decline.

The overall estimate has fluctuated little in recent years because the number of new unauthorized immigrants is roughly equal to the number who are deported, leave the U.S. on their own, convert to legal status, or (in a small number of cases) die, according to the Pew Research analysis.

Source

originally posted by: Chickensalad
a reply to: network dude

You bring up a good point but it's not that simple. It has become increasingly more difficult for most in SA to legally migrate here. It takes quite a few hoops to jump through and quite a bit of money that moat don't have. On the flip side, its far more easier for a European to come this way. They usually have the means and qualified sponsors.

My issue with our immigration problem is our outdated and draconian system that hasn't been updated withnthe rest of the world. The whole damn thing needs overhauled and modernized. We shouldn't be making it so damn difficult for both those that wish to migrate and those that do the footwork in government to help people migrate.

It's a damn cluster#*#.

Yea, that's kind of my point. Instead of fighting an unwinnable fight, trying to keep them from getting in, make it possible for them to get in with whatever legal status is required and TAX them. Just as we are taxed. Sure you can come here and live the American dream, but you have to live like Americans do.

It just seems like such a simple idea, and with as many people as we have on the government payroll doing who knows what, there should be a department somewhere that can come up with a plan.

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

Yes I can.

It is a bad idea because it will cost an awful lot of money for a percentile effect which would not be nearly worth the effort. That is money which will not be provided by the Mexican government (mostly because the Mexican government is hardly flush with cash at the best of times, which these most certainly are not), and will therefore have to come from somewhere. Taxation? Perhaps a rise will be in order. If not it will have to come out of pre-existing budgets which, as far as I am aware, are already stretched somewhat by decades of war, amongst other wasteful enterprises.

This is precisely the sort of thing that saw Trump in eight billion dollars of personal debt, a figure which shows that he is hardly the sort of fellow you want managing a building project, particularly one which will not return nearly as much value as is put into it.

It is also a bad idea, because realistically speaking, all a wall will actually achieve in the long run, is that it will become an ugly reminder that for all the talk of democracy and freedom, the US is fast becoming an authoritarian nightmare of a country. Nothing says "obey or die" like a wall big enough for Godzilla rest an elbow on.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
You dont think a wall would stop people sneaking in while no one is looking?

There are already walls in some places and no it won't stop people sneaking in.

a reply to: TrueBrit

We are talking about America here, man. We spend more than what it would take to build the wall on useless things all the time. Billions to make a rocket spin better, government grants to colleges, to see where is the most painful spot to be stung by a bee, the list goes on.
It is only your guess that in the future it will end up being an ugly reminder. There is no way to really know how it will work out in the future. It may end up saying, "stay out", not "obey or die"

I can't get on board with the waste of money argument, or legacy argument.

a reply to: daskakik

Whos the goof who made it climbable? LOL

a reply to: TrueBrit

Check out that vid above.

Either we legalize all drugs, or make a wall that isnt easy to scale in 10 seconds with pounds of ?? strapped to your back.

Embarrassing, why have a door to the pantry at all? Then youre ensuring floods of people because, why not?

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

I am a student of many things. I also have exceptional pattern recognition skills. These combined, as well as many other facets of things as they stand, tell me that the only way to fail to get behind the arguments as I have outlined them, is by way of having an ideological desire to see a statement made, rather than to actually produce a result.

That is illogical in the extreme, given the host of more pressing concerns abroad in the United States, like the millions of people working three jobs and not making ends meet, despite doing more work in one hour than Trump has put into anything in his whole life.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
Whos the goof who made it climbable? LOL

True but there is more than one way to skin a cat.


Here is an interesting pic:

a reply to: TheBulk

We have boatloads of that for our size. Again, here, as in your nation, the bulk of that illegal immigration is via airports, ports, and the like. Your border controls are not the problem. Its keeping track of those who enter the nation via normal channels and then go off the map. Those make up the bulk of the immigration problem! Good freakin grief!

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: TheBulk

We have boatloads of that for our size. Again, here, as in your nation, the bulk of that illegal immigration is via airports, ports, and the like. Your border controls are not the problem. Its keeping track of those who enter the nation via normal channels and then go off the map. Those make up the bulk of the immigration problem! Good freakin grief!

Because you know what its like living on the border or near it, dont you? Tell us about your vast experience.

originally posted by: TheBulk
Because you know what its like living on the border or near it, dont you? Tell us about your vast experience.

So if you get closer to a border the other illegals overstaying their visas disappear? Can it be just anyone?

so lowering the amount of visas is an additional policy that must be added. Along with taking a look at anchor baby issues.

Walls reduce the amount. It is a deterrent. Walls and fences are put around all sorts of things. When security officers are added they become even more effective.
Put a few military bases near the border. The enlisted and officers are getting paid regardless of their location. Have them go on patrols.

Adding police patrols to high crime areas reduces crime. According to "wall does not work" logic this should not work.

At my job site we often install fence. Is this fence is put up for no reason?

Of course its not 100% effective.

These anti-wallers are like abstinence only supporters. Condoms and birth control dont always work, thus they are ineffective, a waste of money.

In the UK, yup some migrants get across riding across on vehicles, but it is difficult and relatively few try. The UK even understands the issue and fines truck drivers 2000 euros if a migrant can get onto their vehicle.
Why do they fine truck(lorries) drivers, oh yea its a deterrent policy, oh yea it pushes truck drivers to up their security.

a reply to: TheBulk

Anecdotes from on the ground are not nearly as useful as hard data, numbers, facts. The facts support the position that the vast majority of illegal immigration is not via land borders, but via airports and ports. The wall will make no significant difference to the numbers of people who illegally settle in the United States.

a reply to: TrueBrit

By put on a pair are you insinuating we should go out and stop said illegal immigrants by force? You realize what the volunteers who do that job already get treated like right?

a reply to: RickyD

No. What I am suggesting, is that you stop being so bloody afraid, whiny, and pathetic about it.

You need a wall to protect you from the powerless!? What kind of America are you living in these days?

a reply to: TrueBrit

To be quite honest a broken one with a crap economy that can not sustain more, more, more. We already have an ever growing homeless population. Lots of people out of work and a lot of easily had jobs go to the guy who can live in a house with 4-8 others all working for less than we can because we don't have 4-8 roommates. I'm all for immigration but as my ancestors did and the ancestors of those who built this country did...do it legally!