Need for Citizen Intelligence Gathering When the SHTF

a reply to: projectvxn
Isnt that what Mitnick said made him such a successful hacker? People like to talk .

originally posted by: musicismagic
I think wtshtf the govt. will have enough "neighborhood " spies working for them. No different then China and even Japan. Best to have a canoe and live by a river and a support of fresh water.

Yup. Great advice there. Tahoe bound if SHTF. Only a few major arteries in and out bound. It's already been discussed where and how to block those arteries off to keep the mass from California from over taking the lake. Winters would suck, and agriculture would be tough, but the Carson Valley is just over the Nevada side.

Let's just hope it doesn't ever come to this point. I actually like the modern conveniences.

a reply to: Gothmog

Indeed. Most of his hacking was social engineering.

His form of HUMINT. He was a natural.

This is why I like small communities, especially when they are tight-knit.

Think small towns in the plains states, there are people who keep eyes on everything that goes on. The ladies also talk, and just as gossip spreads FAST, so does news.

What makes this harder is the local level, people don't interact like they used to.

I wish ATS was a bit more "tight-knit", with so many eyes and ears, as long as stuff isn't blocked we have a fairly decent intel group here who keeps tabs on things. Too much discord here, still tho.

a reply to: redempsh

I've given that one some thought Redempsh and even came up with some design ideas. Didn't know that was called a heliograph. A similar approach is ultrasonic or sub sonic audio signals sent and received with directional speakers and microphones. Good stuff, thanks.

All good stuff guys thanks to all.

originally posted by: musicismagic
I think wtshtf the govt. will have enough "neighborhood " spies working for them. No different then China and even Japan. Best to have a canoe and live by a river and a support of fresh water.

Identifying the snitches would have be part of the intel program certainly. Who can you really trust? Giving out some false information and seeing who is passing it on to the authorities would bring those types to light. Can't forget things like those fake cell towers that monitor all forms of wireless communications.

Digital encryption isn't just for the authorities to use. There are two-way modems that could be used when transmitting intel not to mention the use of a meshnet WiFI LAN system, however, a meshnet could be noticed as easily as two-way conversations. Low output transmissions relayed in line of sight and blocked by natural or man made structures would help avoid detection.

It seems to me that at a certain point, regardless of how you use your intel, the man will want to put a stop to any leak they find.

Encryption isn't limited to digital communications, code languages and ciphers can be used. Codes would have to be changed and rotated frequently in this case.

From WiKipedia:

Mitnick's criminal activities, arrest, and trial, along with the associated journalism, were all controversial.[8] Though Mitnick has been convicted of copying software unlawfully,[22] his supporters argue that his punishment was excessive and supporters of Mitnick have asserted that many of the charges against him were fraudulent[23] and not based on actual losses.[24] In his 2002 book, The Art of Deception, Mitnick states that he compromised computers solely by using passwords and codes that he gained by social engineering. He claims he did not use software programs or hacking tools for cracking passwords or otherwise exploiting computer or phone security.

Sounds like a guy we could learn from, both his mistakes and his successes.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Why though?

To acquire info you have to open yourself up to it, and that opening is a weak point, isn't? But why do that unless you plan on some organized resistance? And what good is that unless you are in a large group, like a militia or higher?

Yeah, so... Unless you already have some militia or better planned, why not just burrow into a cliff and play wait and see?

Edit: If you were just looking for info like "who is in control now" I would say just go check the highways every few weeks. Use high powered binoculars and see who is using the roads. That kind of info would be all that most would need, I think.

originally posted by: redempsh
First, you want perimeter intel; so you'll not be attacked by surprise.

Next, you should expand your "perimeter of observation" to include traffic intersections that will likely be used by anyone coming to greet you. Highway offramps, road intersections, bridges or similar bottlenecks (gates).

That way you can keep your eye on antagonists as well as the tide of refugees surging toward you.

That is good advice. Having maps (including topo maps) in your "command center" will help you to evaluate your area of operations. Just keeping your eyes open as you do your normal routine and think about situational awareness. That alone will help toward that end and get you tuned into possible situations that may arise.

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Why though?

To acquire info you have to open yourself up to it, and that opening is a weak point, isn't? But why do that unless you plan on some organized resistance? And what good is that unless you are in a large group, like a militia or higher?

Yeah, so... Unless you already have some militia or better planned, why not just burrow into a cliff and play wait and see?

Edit: If you were just looking for info like "who is in control now" I would say just go check the highways every few weeks.

You make a good point, but even what you suggest is intelligence gathering on a smaller scale. Personally I'd like to know as much as possible to make an informed decision when the time comes. There are many groups out there, like my friends who use CBs in their trail riding club, or the locals who have a loose network on the Ham as well as those on the CB, even a good number of boaters still use their marine radios. Then there are many businesses who use licensed two-ways, as well as truckers who still use CBs. There is information to be had even if you don't have a group that is doing this strictly for intel gathering purposes.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I think it's a horrible idea, what you're thinking. It is better to just hide and stay as quiet as possible unless you already have something huge planned with some very large militia group or something.

Not trying to offend you, but a ragtag group of cb users isn't going to do anything but put you in jeopardy.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck


Short wave radio seems the best option. This is much closer to Humint, as well. After all, it's a human your talking to.....


One can get a workable unit in any Radio Shack. With a ham license
, your own sat phone number as well.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

I'm not at all offended, in fact I welcome your point of view. Thanks for your input, it is certainly worth considering. The government certainly has the spy game down pat.

You're right, if you become effective at intel gathering, you will get noticed eventually, but I think that burying your head in the sand is equally as dangerous. Resistance will happen and you will have to choose who's side you are on, the government's side, the resistance's side, our our own individual side, it all depends on the scenario we find ourselves in during the SHTF. If there is some natural disaster, an invasion or some terrorist activity, I have no problem letting the authorities know whats going on. Situational awareness allows you to to make those kind of decisions.

Sorry to go old school on everyone but I think homing pigeons would be the most reliable way to carry information. I doubt even most military or police would give a second thought to a pigeon flying overhead, they've become too accustomed to the electronic methods of transmission.

Well disguised trail cams could be very useful though one would be exposing themselves to retrieve the pictures if the camera had been found. Your thread poses an interesting and critical question. Good thinking Swampbuck.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck


Short wave radio seems the best option. This is much closer to Humint, as well. After all, it's a human your talking to.....

One can get a workable unit in any Radio Shack. With a ham license
, your own sat phone number as well.

Even without a license, there are situations were an unlicensed operator can use the licensed frequencies. If things get bad enough, you may even be welcomed into the Ham club, license or not.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Sorry to go old school on everyone but I think homing pigeons would be the most reliable way to carry information. I doubt even most military or police would give a second thought to a pigeon flying overhead, they've become too accustomed to the electronic methods of transmission.

Well disguised trail cams could be very useful though one would be exposing themselves to retrieve the pictures if the camera had been found. Your thread poses an interesting and critical question. Good thinking Swampbuck.

Excellent point. Even smoke signals or hand carried notes would be viable.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck


Agreed. I ran Alaska for a couple of years. The trucks running north all run short wave radios and none are licensed. The gov't ignores/permits it...much like the early days of C.B. radio when licensing was originally required.


The only reason I mention licensing is it's the only way to get your own Sat phone number, apparently.

Even CB radios, tweaked and with proper base antenna systems can provide, via skip, a near world-wide communication system.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck


Agreed. I ran Alaska for a couple of years. The trucks running north all run short wave radios and none are licensed. The gov't ignores/permits it...much like the early days of C.B. radio when licensing was originally required.


The only reason I mention licensing is it's the only way to get your own Sat phone number, apparently.

Even CB radios, tweaked and with proper base antenna systems can provide, via skip, a near world-wide communication system.

Quite true nwtrucker, any form of communications would be useful depending on how things play out. Whatever works and goes undetected sounds good to me. I think that even the simplest two-ways, like CBs and 1/2 watt FRS radios, could have their uses given the situation. Thanks for your personal experience on two-way communications.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Hey again S.B. How's it up there? Something to think about in your thread here.

You know I'm with FEMA, Homeland Security, 1st Responder in disasters...and here's something not exactly secret with us, but not generally known.

In ashtf scenario emergency services, police, fire...even the Guard...will switch to dedicated frequencies for communication. Though will be both encripted and not for some..what's generally not known is they have MORE THAN a few dozen different ones...sometimes will be switched in MID-Broadcast...even mid sentence.

This will keep the messages broken, dropping off completely, change current encryptions even word for word. Only the other end will get the breakers per message.

I believe its something NASA developed after the code breakers methods of WWII...and prior to humans in space.

When SHTF....only some of all messages may...may get through by scanning. Certainly not every one nor all...

Take care...hey! Now I'm hankerin' for a pastie or 3!
MS