'Friendship' based on lies?

a reply to: Profusion

Im not saying its ok... but when ones whole public persona is just that a public persona and not the truth, then if you know them as that public persona or do, which lie are you going to believe more? The bought and sold one... or the person trying to avoid that bought and sold lie and forced to tell another just in order to have some semblance of something real... regardless of how it started out?

I'm a public figure, but I never agreed to sell my voice, likeness or image... I retain all rights yet many want a piece of that action. Im damned and demonized because I know what comes with it, I know the greed and fakness that follows, I know the lies, scorn, and rumor that follows...

It's a total hell whether you live in luxury or poverty while others sell you out like a piece of meat and ready to toss you as garbage at any given moment.

So what if this person told you they were famous? What would you do... a typical would run and go find some of your work see the fake image persona that the parent corporations or sponsors want you to have to present as a package worth selling... they dont want real, dirt and grit and reality come with the real, they want a contrived image to inspire a fake dream.

So would you have been a typical or said f-ck it I accept you for you and even though I dont know you I'd like to get to know you beyond that image?

Of course seeing how you are taking this whole incident as a slight instead of understanding? Like it's an attack on you... then you're making it about you, and thats all people do when one is a public figure make everything about them everything about the fake and what they can get out of it...

Youre playing a victim role to someone always victimized... that had hope you'd be able to drop the facades and plays and roles and expectations.

I'm simply pulling back the veil saying this is how it is, this is the slavery 2.0 people dont get to see... so are you going to keep someone chained up or accept them as them even if they had to lie to gauge if they could trust you?

Instead youre whining about someone trying to reach out and say hey the status thing means nothing, dont judge me by it, I grew to like you for you but heres who I am in that public spectacle in that public auction that buys and sells me at any moment.

Can you not see the turmoil? It's like telling someone you have herpes up front or something, and you;re running around saying omg this person had them and was honest about having herpes I cant believe I almost fell for it. If you truly loved them even if it were hiv or aids it wouldnt even matter. That may seem like an extreme pointing as an example but as far as how real love operates? Thats wholly true.

But people typically only want to see their view of things, and in such a manner of seeing that kinda love is always selfish and not love at all it's ego ones own wants desires and dreams, people rubbing their hands together like a fly sitting on an entire meal waiting to ruin it when theres no way they could ever eat it all. True love has no self in it, it gives and it gives, especially in the public forum or sector of bought and sold when it's nothing but take take take with no love in it.

To sell dreams of fake, fiction and fantasy instead of reality.

But honesty is the best policy but honestly would you have accepted them for them or accepted the image bought and sold if you knew who they were that is who they actually arent up front?

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
But honesty is the best policy but honestly would you have accepted them for them or accepted the image bought and sold if you knew who they were that is who they actually arent up front?

Assuming that you're right and this person I dealt with is really the famous person I think they may be...

My problem is that I'm never going to trust them, ever.

How could I trust them if 99% of what they led me to believe is a lie. They can say the picture was real, the physical characteristics they mentioned were real, and the first name was real. All of that matches the famous person 100% by the way (as far as I can see).

However, the other 99% of what they led to believe was false.

I would be selling out to marry them for money. It would be perfect too because this famous person has no children and they're very rich.

I would feel like a sellout because I would always cut ties with such a huge liar if it weren't for the money involved.

Their case would be what you just explained...

"I'm really an honest person but I was forced to lie about all that."

Only a fool would trust someone after that in my opinion.

Now, they could show me a lot of evidence that they're really trustworthy in real life. I could demand a prenuptial agreement that says I get a lot of money even if I divorce after one day (as insurance against them continuing to lie to me).

No matter how I look at this situation I would feel like a sellout if I gave them another chance much less marriage.

a reply to: Profusion

As long as you always make it about you, thats exactly how everything is always going to end up... about you, how everything relates to you... it gives rise to every single problem in the world as well as every single one we face our entire lives.

But such is the nature of ego.

a reply to: Profusion

It's up to you to choose what you will tolerate or forgive in any given relationship IMO.

If you marry someone for money then you would be, again IMO, a sellout but some folks have that type of relationship.

This statement is odd:

Now, they could show me a lot of evidence that they're really trustworthy in real life. I could demand a prenuptial agreement that says I get a lot of money even if I divorce after one day (as insurance against them continuing to lie to me).

I find it odd because I don't, personally, think that someone deserves money that they didn't earn or help earn based on someone else lying to them. That would be like a 'fine' and that makes no sense in relationships to me.

Either accept that the person lied to you and may very well lie again and continue the friendship/romantic relationship or don't and move on. From what I interpret from your above posts is that you are rather heavily invested emotionally and moving on and cutting ties may not be easy for you.

Have you asked them why they lied? There seems to be quite a bit of secrecy on both of your parts.
Good luck!

I'm going to tell a story that's related to this thread here.

In my early twenties my best friend's sister had a crush on me. She wanted to be my girlfriend based on how she acted for a while and based on what my friend said. I turned her down because I wasn't attracted to her at all.

No big deal, right?

Not when you realize that my best friend's siblings and his mother lived in a $3 million home (that they bought it in the late 1980s when it was a lot more than it is now) that the family bought with cash. The family had beautiful homes all over the world, and they had a huge business in another country.

How does that tie into this thread?

It was a comment that my best friend made to me concerning his sister:

"Everyone has a price."

His sister was going to get me a job working at the company where she worked (I was a university student at the time and I had a job I liked, by the way). Based on what my best friend said, she had every intention to marry me.

I didn't even go on one date with her. I had no attraction toward her whatsoever.

I often wonder how things would have turned out if I just would have given her chance. She was a great person. I just had no attraction toward her at all.

When I was nearing marriage my best friend was quite angry with me. I'll never forget what he said:

"You picked someone off the street."

He was obviously comparing the woman I married with his sister. His family was a little snobbish.

That's how close I came to being rich but I'm not a sellout.

a reply to: Profusion

Head and heart when unbalanced brings ourselves a lot of battles... your heart won something, that your head may regret.

You now have principle where physical bias once stood...

This is how these lessons are learned that grow us an bring us benefit.

The danger is of course when that principle then becomes bias... in such a manner we end up learning nothing and need the lesson yet again.

originally posted by: TNMockingbird
I find it odd because I don't, personally, think that someone deserves money that they didn't earn or help earn based on someone else lying to them. That would be like a 'fine' and that makes no sense in relationships to me.

It theoretically would go like this:

Me: I can't trust you based on your past lies.

Her: I'll sign the prenuptial as a guarantee of my performance.

It would give me peace of mind. This person is so wealthy that the amount of money I would ask for would be nothing to them. It would just allow me to relax. That seems like something totally normal to me.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

My best friend's sister was a dream in a lot of ways. She may have been too perfect and it was intimidating looking back. In fact, her boyfriend before me (who she was in love with) left her because....

...get this...

She was too perfect.

I've never heard of such a thing. But, my best friend explained it to me as he himself was in shock about it.

Anyway, I don't regret the decision because I maintained my integrity. I sometimes wonder what a date with her would have been like. But, it wasn't just a date...

She was going to force me to take a job at the company where she worked. It was a package deal. I was wondering what the unstated conditions of the deal were. I was concerned about that because people like my (former) best friend's family do not mess around or play games. It could have gotten really serious really fast.

I made the right decision in not selling out. I should have gone on at least one date with my best friend's sister though. I wasn't mature enough back then to realize that.

a reply to: Profusion

Yet you are still ruminating about it chewing on the lesson... making your head and heart out of whack. Your head keeps saying easy button and perfect and too this that and the other in excuse land of something you never tried due to some held principles.

Your heart chose your wife due to all of those principles in your head... yet your heart isn't also calling that choice perfect, so how do you think that head conflicting with your heart, would make your choice of wife feel... do you think she would feel you weren't choosing her because she was perfect for you? Or just out of principle since she isn't "perfect".

Of course human nature will state you'll likely start recanting like oh no I love my choice of a wife etc.

Well, my friend no need just stop standing in a field called the past ruminating on that field not chosen to stand in... as it will at some point be seen as "greener" when enough experience accepts that maybe they were the one too "green" in decision making at the time.

Wisdom grows and well thats what life grows no matter where we are standing, sitting or laying down since we carry that field of mind with us where ever we go.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I'm divorced and single at the moment. I was just trying to give you an answer to your comment. I may not have understood what you were getting at.

"Well, my friend no need just stop standing in a field called the past ruminating on that field no chosen to stand in"

That's not what I was doing. I used that story to describe how I wouldn't sellout. My feelings about selling out haven't changed all these years later.

I find it interesting that you keep referring to the heart and the head, but you won't address at what point one becomes a sellout.

It's as if you're leaving karma out of the equation completely.

I believe there's more to consider than just your head and your heart. One must consider things such as karma and maintaining one's integrity as well. I don't see those things as being directly related to the heart or the head. I see karma and maintaining one's integrity as being bigger issues that transcend terrestrial concerns such as the heart and the head.

a reply to: Profusion

A sellout... well there was a good definition of what that is a ways back.

You have principles that are your strengths and also a weakness, as it makes you look back long and hard on things long past in reflection.

So my advice is read the fine print before signing on any dotted lines, as what is going to be required of you that may conflict with your principles before signing on any dotted line and be sure to get that in writing as well before any pens hit a table.

Of course, if you stick to your principles as strongly as I have... you'll be cloned in the way ideas and ideals start coming about in whatever field is your specialty.

That is of course more of a test in my opinion to see if you can make it without becoming a hater, going man I thought of that this and the other.

It easy to get that temptation thrown in your face, to see if your principle not only bends but then breaks stooping to such a level.

It tried to bite me quite a while back, and instead I decided to encourage it, start seeing the world as bigger than myself or any one person or self or group... that all of humanity is responsible for all of humanity right here right now... that we may be individuals but it takes all of us in the no man is an island thing... we are all dependent on each other, for growth and understanding... from the Luther Kings, to the Adolph Hitlers all have a lesson to teach and all in the past have lead us to this point and time and it continues to be so despite any one group or individual singing ME ME ME ME ignoring the chorus of the other notes involved that make the entire world of human society possible.

It takes a village, whatever role you want to play in that chain is an individual choice... you have talents that can be made your purpose, you have principles that say thats not for me. Whether that ego leads to a pig farmer is not my kinda life but sign polisher is, is just the way the world works when principles give rise to bias. Because then society becomes filled with people too good to fill some roles... and one filled with hearts and minds of inequality.

Kings back in the day, didn't sit in control rooms and send other men to their deaths... it was their principles it was their kingdom and they led the charge... if they fell in battle then the strength of that resolve or conviction was seen as unworthy. So the kingdom fell... if it did not? Then it was seen as "gods" will.

I can't say who's will all of this is, I can only see that to make a village it takes all kinds... and what we chose defines us. But that is not ultimately who we are.

The intention we chose is what makes us who we are in each and every single decision... so I can understand your apprehension and wanting to stick to your principles.

Just know they can either free or bind you in reflection that pauses life itself but only in the individual, except when used in groups to hold others in a similar pause.

a reply to: Profusion

Are you, and possibly others, being trolled maybe?

Have you meet this person in real life? I assume not, but maybe a push for a meetig would reveal things?

a reply to: Profusion those are great words and definitions and I am familiar, the word in'm looking for has to do with what folks call larger companies vs local shops...i'm at a loss for the correct term... example is when a box store tries to or accomplishes taking away money flow from smaller businesses..by promising many jobs at minimum wage and a high turn over of employees...when folks need job security, steady work in a place they are able to move forward and live comfortably without fear... or learn from their experience without trauma, enough to find work in another environment.
Word that come to mind concerning this,
Corporations! I think that is the word I was looking for...
CEOs, big business, institutions was all that my mind could gather... the trickling down system of abuse in corporate reality vs. the treatment in local mom and Pop situations... easily compared and or contrasted... depending on who is in charge and what is a pattern within their family patterns and how to cut the abusive cords of imprinting further traumas and negativity cycles into or onto a person that works for them or how they deal with employees and what issues arise from customers or coworkers... letting grievances air in any life situation is not selling out or being a kiss @#$
People have a right to express themselves formally or informal as best they can explain what happens to make them upset without fear of having human emotions in work fork or union in relationship issues... as long as it doesn't result in violence... as though someone should be scared that because a voice or feelings weren't heard they make a postal comeback... there is no true ''getting even'' in violence and the nature of fighting/harming another being.
You either agree to disagree, shake hands, bow or part in silence and move on to the next challenge life offers... and be happy your still alive on the beautiful planet free to let go of hate or pain... if one is willing to accept that humans (and animals) are emotional beings and can make a fresh start in many faiths or non faiths... me, I choose Christ.

a reply to: Profusion

In my first reply, I did based on the information given, but after you provided more information on the situation I no longer thought that. That is what I meant when I said my position had changed.