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Allah off the Richter Scale

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posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:16 PM
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DrHoracid

All religous belives have roots in paganism so like I said "Allah" is the equivalent of christian "Jehovah" and Mohammed may sure that people knew that.

Mohammed honored Moses and Jesus as Allah's two previous messengers, and porclaimed Islam to be the third and final revelation from "God".



[edit on 20-1-2005 by marg6043]




posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by DrHoracid


All religous belives have roots in paganism so like I said "Allah" is the equivalent of christian "Jehovah" and Mohammed may sure that people knew that.

Mohammed honored Moses and Jesus as Allah's two previous messengers, and porclaimed Islam to be the third and final revelation from "God".



Could you please correct this, that isn't what I said at all.

[edit on 20-1-2005 by DrHoracid]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by babloyi
hello margo
Just to correct this misconception that you have:
Muhammad's first wife, Khadija (he had no other wives when he was with her) was a wealthy woman


Yes your are correct I did not had a misconception about the first wife and she been the only one he was with while marry to her.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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I apologized if I miss quote you but I though your said that Allah, was a pagan, the true is that Mohammed made sure that Allah, was the eqivalent of the christian God, as to make it easier for the Christians to convert.

It did not work do to the prophecies of the bible fresh at the time that fortells of false prophets so christians did not fall for it.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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actually, christians did not "fall for it" because at the time, there were very few christians in and around Mecca and Medina. Although the Quran mentions Christians, at the time, the message was mainly directed to the Jews and pagans.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Mohammed money came from the weathy women he married. He scored hight when he got her.


Actually the money Mohammed(PBUH) used to fund the creation and propegation of Islam was obtained from raiding caravans and stealing from others. This was seen as acceptable in the eyes of Allah.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by tomcat ha
Koran says that women are equal to men.


I can't begin to tell you how wrong that truly is. According to the Quran, women are supposed to be subservient to men in every way.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by babloyi
actually, christians did not "fall for it" because at the time, there were very few christians in and around Mecca and Medina.


Yes you are correct christianity was a pretty much new religion at the time, But it was spreading fast.

Islam became the youngest major religon in the world, for those that think that is Islam is not a religion well it is.

And its roots are in Judaism and Christianity.

Most true moslems see Islam as a rectification of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

That is why the Koran uses the Jewish scriptures and the prohetic mission of Jesus.

Actually the funny thing is that the true moslems as it said in the Koran, (I actually have a beatiful copy of the Koran my husband got in Saudi Arabia back in the first gulf war) that Jews and and Christians were favored by Allah but deviated from God and became corrupted.

Also the Arabian people traces their origins to the patriach Abraham and they said that he was neither Jew or christian as you know the Jews call Abraham the father.



[edit on 20-1-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Simulacra

Actually the money Mohammed(PBUH) used to fund the creation and propegation of Islam was obtained from raiding caravans and stealing from others. This was seen as acceptable in the eyes of Allah.


Maybe after he became a prophet because before that he married at 25 to a wealthy women, but he did not became a religious until his 40th brithday.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
Actually the money Mohammed(PBUH) used to fund the creation and propegation of Islam was obtained from raiding caravans and stealing from others. This was seen as acceptable in the eyes of Allah.

That is not quite right either. As is stated in the Quran:


[4,94]
O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.


About women:


[4,19]
O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.


And:


[33,35]
For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in God's praise,- for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward.


As well as:


Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.


As you can see, women ARE to be treated equal to men according to the Quran. However, as marg mentioned, what muslims are doing today should not be taken as the proper way for a muslim to act.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
but he did not became a religious until his 40th brithday.


Exactly. He dedicated his life to Islam after he heard the Angel Gabrielle whispered in his ear and shortly afterwards his accession into heaven.

You know your Islam history marg.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by babloyi

Originally posted by Simulacra
Actually the money Mohammed(PBUH) used to fund the creation and propegation of Islam was obtained from raiding caravans and stealing from others. This was seen as acceptable in the eyes of Allah.

That is not quite right either. As is stated in the Quran:


[4,94]
O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.


How does that passage disprove my statement?
Muslims raided caravans and stole from others in order to fund Islam.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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I hate to triple post but let me give you some facts about the prophet Mohammed(PBUH):

    - At the age of 25, Mohammed married Khadija who was only 15 years old who inherited a fortune from her former husband. Mohammed was was living in absolute luxury.

    - Khadija died when Mohammed was 49 years old. Between the age of 49 and 63, Mohammed was married 11 times

    - Ayesha was 6 years old when she was married to him


As far as quoting from the Quran to prove a point babloyi, here are some you left out:


II/223: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate). So go to your tilth as ye will...



IV/34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.



IV/15: (For women) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness ...confine them until death claims them.


Also don't passages from the Hadith which is probably the biggest promoter of domestic violence and female disrespect in Islam.



'If a woman's conduct is mischievous or immodest, the husband has the right to beat her up but must not break her bones. She must not allow anybody to enter the house if her husband does not like him. She has the right to expect sustenance of her husband. (TR. P 439)'




If a man is in a mood to have sexual intercourse the woman must come immediately even if she is baking bread at a communal oven. (TR. P 428)




If a woman refuses to come to bed when invited by her husband, she becomes the target of the curses of angles. Exactly the same happens if she deserts her husband's bed. (Bokhari P 93)




Women who are ungrateful to their men are the denizens of hell; it is an act of ingratitude for a woman to say: "I have never seen any good from you." (Bokhari P 96)




A woman in many ways is deprived of the possession of her own body. Even her milk belongs to her husband. (Bokhari P 27) She is not allowed to practise birth control either.


And how can we forget this one...


Majority of women would go to hell. (Muslim P 1431)


Now im not sure of what the Isnad of these Hadiths are but if they held for this long, then they must be strong.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
- At the age of 25, Mohammed married Khadija who was only 15 years old who inherited a fortune from her former husband.


I saw a discovery channel documentary about Mary the mother of Jesus where they said she was between 12-14 when she married Joesph. Since Jesus was born BEFORE she married him would that make God a Child Molester?

It was a few weeks back so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

And BTW I didnt see much difference between the way Muslims, Jews and Christians are TOLD to treat women, its just that we ignore those parts of the bible.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
Since Jesus was born BEFORE she married him would that make God a Child Molester?

Of course it does.



Originally posted by Amuk
And BTW I didnt see much difference between the way Muslims, Jews and Christians are TOLD to treat women, its just that we ignore those parts of the bible.

Neither do I.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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My mistake, Simulacra, I read it as "Muslims raided caravans in order to steal from others". That is why I quoted a verse that basically said that don't attack anyone just using religion as an excuse to get booty. But either way, I am sure you are aware that stealing is forbidden in Islam. As for fighting (or at least STARTING fights, which I assume is what you mean by raiding caravans), the Quran does not allow it either:


Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not, aggressors. (Al-Baqarah: 190)


as well as:

O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do. (Al-Maidah: 8)


As for your allegations about Khadija being 15 when she married Muhammad, I cannot help laughing at the fact that while you praise marg for her knowledge in the subject (which I also find praiseworthy), you yourself lack knowledge of the subject. Khadija was around 40 when she married Muhammad. Also, most of those Hadith you quoted are not from "trustworthy".
Also, you would do well to quote the entire passage, unless of course, you are trying to propagate hatred for Islam. You said:

IV/15: (For women) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness ...confine them until death claims them.

The entire passage is:


[4]
15. If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
16. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

So you see, the punishment is not limitted to women.

You also said:


IV/34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.

The entire quote is:


[4,34]
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Protectors and Maintainers. As in those who take care of. Not those who are in charge.

[edit on 20-1-2005 by babloyi]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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I hardly doubt that people "Misunderstand" Islam or Mohammed, and I am certain that people don't "fear" him. Historical fact supports that he is a polygamist and a pedophile. Typically that would be all that is necessary in the eyes of most Christians to discredit this man and the fake "religion" that followed.


Polygamy, anthropologicaly speaking, is a normative behaviour in many socities current and past; humans, praxeologicaly speaking, are not monogamous creatures. Only centuries of conceptual habituation and the social construction of marriage have created monogomy; however, i'm not aware of polygamy in our primitive ancestors either.

Now, you, as a Christian, are in no place to target Islam as being 'fake', not when your entire faith can be found in Egyptian mythology. Christianity explicity stole mythology from pagan sources and have been tight lipped since. The least to say, atleast we have the liberty to induce enquiry vis a vis historicity unto the life of Muhhamed; can we say the same about this mythological Jesus Christ? I hardly think so.

I would also like to state that more deaths have occured in the name of Christ than Allah.

Ad hominem against Muhhameds Character is not needed. Islam does not revolve around the life of Muhhamed, but the revelations he recieved though the Angel Gabriel. Islam was brought to the Arab Peninsula to bring the ridiculed Arabs thier own Prophet of God and a codified conviction of his words. The caravan raiding is the result of the socio-political goals of Muhhamed and his followers and to further ecapsulate the Arab peninsula into one body maxim; not for the sheer pleasure.


Deep

[edit on 20-1-2005 by ZeroDeep]

[edit on 20-1-2005 by ZeroDeep]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by babloyi
Khadija was around 40 when she married Muhammad.

What evidence do you have of this?


Originally posted by babloyi
Also, most of those Hadith you quoted are not from "trustworthy".

I didnt know the Isnad or transmissions of these Hadith so I couldnt verifiy how strong they were.


Originally posted by babloyi
unless of course, you are trying to propagate hatred for Islam.

How do you know that I'm not Muslim myself?



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep

I would also like to state that more deaths have occured in the name of Christ than Allah.


I hear this a lot on these boards but have not seen any numbers to back it up.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
I would also like to state that more deaths have occured in the name of Christ than Allah.


3,000,000 Bangladeshi Hindus Killed during the Pakistan-Bangladesh war in 1971.

From 1894 to 1896 Abdul Hamid, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, killed 150,000 Armenian Christians.

In July 1974, 4,000 Christians living in Cyprus were killed by Fahri Koroturk, president of Turkey and his Islamic army.

From 1843 to 1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and children were massacred by the Muslims.

From 1915 to 1918 750,000 Assyrians were killed in the name of Islamic Jihad.

In 1933 thousands of Assyrian villagers were murdered by the Iraqi soldiers in Northern Iraq.

Since 1990 more than 10,000 Kashmiri Hindus have been brutally murdered by Islamic fundamentalists.

Over 280,000 Ugandans killed during the reign of Idi Amin from 1971 to 1979.

Over 30,000 Mauritanians have been killed by the Islamic dictators since 1960.

In 1980, 20,000 Syrians were murdered under the rule of Hafez Al-Assad, President of Syria.

Since 1992 120,000 Algerians have been murdered by the Islamic fundamentalist army.

Of and not to mention that whole September 11th debacle.


Anyway, good post as always ZeroDeep.


[edit on 1/20/2005 by Simulacra]



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