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Please Help My Friend By Providing Your Opinion

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posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:19 AM
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OK...here is the deal. I was chatting with a friend of mine who would likely consider himself an independent. He made a statement and I told him what kind of response he would likely get from left leaning people. He seemed a bit shocked. I'm not baiting or trolling, nor will I respond to this thread...just thought I would post his statement and ask for opinions from the left leaning ATS'ers. I'll then provide him with a link to read the responses.

His Paraphrased Statement
If you enter the USA illegally you are then a criminal because you committed a crime. While in the USA illegally you shouldn't be allowed to work, you shouldn't be able to get a driver's license, you shouldn't receive healthcare or any benefits and you shouldn't be able to rent an apartment, etc.




posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Technically I agree with him. If you are here against the law, then it should be illegal to carry on regular commerce here in any manner which requires a legal ID. Even visitors to the country have legal IDs, but if you are here against the law, then you are relying on a black market underground network, or you have to further break the law in order to obtain a legal ID (which is illegal and then you continuously commit fraud, another crime).

However, leftists take the position that illegals only come here for the best and most pure of reasons, so the law shouldn't apply to them. And hence, illegals get all kinds of breaks in the law for being illegal and breaking the law in the first place. It's basically an extension of the idea that if you are starving, it's wrong to hold you accountable for the theft of bread.

For the record, I'm not left-leaning. Everyone here likely knows this by now.

edit on 24-7-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:28 AM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
Well...there is what my father-n-law used to refer to as "pissing in yer boot to keep yer foot warm"
Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business

While I simply note that you can't suck and blow at the same time.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:30 AM
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I don't lean, i'm independent. My response, "Right on."



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
If you enter the USA illegally you are then a criminal because you committed a crime. While in the USA illegally you shouldn't be allowed to work, you shouldn't be able to get a driver's license, you shouldn't receive healthcare or any benefits and you shouldn't be able to rent an apartment, etc.


So, what you're mate is implying, is that the rights of those that enter the US illegally should just be limited to voting and working for cash?



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
While I simply note that you can't suck and blow at the same time.

Does that mean you can't have welfare and a strong immigration policy at the same time?
-chuckle

People always make this out to be a left/right issue. It's a New World Order issue. Every independent business that goes under fuels the NWO.

They've got people bickering about political issues and trying to decide what complicated laws actually mean ... all the while they're stuffing their pockets full of fiat currency.


edit on 2472016 by Snarl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:41 AM
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I have been labeled a "people like you" so many times here on ATS that I have embraced the designation and fall into a special category separate from the left/right continuum....

Why do the majority of illegals sneek across the borders? Perhaps because there are plenty of slave wage jobs available for companies looking to increase their profit margin by cutting labor costs.

blogs.voanews.com...



www.washingtonpost.com... 11a4ff_story.html
edit on 24-7-2016 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:45 AM
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I wonder what would have happened if the Native Americans had have instigated "laws" such as these.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

Breaking my word...but had to respond. No...I just listed what he stated. Obviously there would be more details not discussed.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: olaru12

BINGO - It's like American society is stuck in some phantom backwardsass causality-loop where the fullness of capitalism has been realized much to the dismay of those who Walmarted and mcDonalds the living sh!t out of it.

If ya know what I mean.

[wink]



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

As I look out my office window, air conditioned, comfortable glass and chrome, I see a group of hot tar roofers below me in 100 degree heat outside, reroofing another office building....not an anglo in sight.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:58 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

It's basically an extension of the idea that if you are starving, it's wrong to hold you accountable for the theft of bread.



It's not that black and white. The people who come over and take the crap jobs that no one here will take are working HARD - many, many hours of back-breaking work for very little money. They aren't stealing anything from anybody. Those are the ones who I think should be made legal and allowed to stay. They actually help our economy. Sure, if there are those who come over and immediately try to get some kind of welfare payment illegally and sit on their butts all day - those are the ones who are stealing from us and should be forced to leave. But I have a feeling that those kind are very much in the minority.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

A specific response to a specific issue does not prove that you lean one way or the other politically, just that you have thought about that issue and developed a personal opinion. He has the right to disagree with the major political parties platforms, while still accepting that some of their specific opinions are correct.

As for American Leftist ideas on immigration,

Berney Sanders on immigration, Dec 2015


As president, I will fight for comprehensive immigration reform that provides a roadmap to citizenship for the 11 million aspiring Americans living in this country. But I will not wait for Congress to act. I will take executive action to accomplish what Congress has failed to do and build upon President Obama’s executive orders to unite families.


Hillary Clinton on immigration, 2016.


We need comprehensive immigration reform with a path to full and equal citizenship. If Congress won't act, I'll defend President Obama’s executive actions—and I'll go even further to keep families together. I'll end family detention, close private immigrant detention centers, and help more eligible people become naturalized.


From Obama's Immigration reform


The President's executive actions will give parents of American citizens or legal resident children who have lived in the U.S. for more than five years relief from deportation if they register with the government, undergo background checks, and pay taxes. It will also allow immigration enforcement officials to focus resources on deporting felons, not families.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Well...I dont think you have to be right or left to make the point.

His Paraphrased Statement
"If you enter the USA illegally you are then a criminal because you committed a crime. While in the USA illegally you shouldn't be allowed to work, you shouldn't be able to get a driver's license, you shouldn't receive healthcare or any benefits and you shouldn't be able to rent an apartment, etc."

1. It is a crime
2. Often they do work under assumed names and are "under the table paid their wages". Happens everyday.
3. You cant get a drivers license either without i.d., but can with fake i.d....also done everyday.
4. Rent is much the same with false i.d.'s because $$$ talks.
5. Benefits/healthcare unfortunately..are granted everyday too by playing the system



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I agree with him.

It is like breaking into somebodies house and then expecting the home owner to serve you Thanksgiving dinner with a smile.

WTF???

SMH.[
edit on 7 24 2016 by stosh64 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

my take : illegal immigrant

a person who knows that they neither quallify for asylum , citizenship or " work // student visa "



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 11:24 AM
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originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I agree with him.

It is like breaking into somebodies house and then expecting the home owner to serve you Thanksgiving dinner with a smile.

WTF???

SMH.[


No, it might be more like breaking into someone's house and then doing all the crap work around the house that must be done, but that the owner doesn't want to do, and only charging a fraction of the cost the owner would normally have to pay to have it done.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

His Paraphrased Statement
If you enter the USA illegally you are then a criminal because you committed a crime. While in the USA illegally you shouldn't be allowed to work, you shouldn't be able to get a driver's license, you shouldn't receive healthcare or any benefits and you shouldn't be able to rent an apartment, etc.


Technically he's correct. However the reality of it is that there are major industries that promote the use of illegal immigrants for cheap labor. So as long as you have large industries like Ag. and Construction and jobs within the Service Sector that keep giving them work, then they will continue to work those jobs.

As long as they're Wanted here, which they are by these industries and being paid to stay here an work then they're going to stay here and work. As long as they stay here to work they're going to try and make the best life they can for themselves while doing it. It's really that simple and you would do the same in their situation too.

The view that they're coming here and stealing our jobs and stealing from us is ridiculous. They aren't stealing anything that isn't being offered to them. They are given those jobs because nobody else will do them, especially for wages that are often times illegal themselves and in sub standard conditions. They are taking advantage of what is being offered to them already. The ones that are here working anyway. The criminals among them are just criminals like any other criminal both legal and illegal.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I agree with your friend.
If you enter the US illegally,
you should go home and come back the right way.

There are circumstances that would change the way you leave, such as if you also committed a crime while here illegally,there should be no questions, just shipped back where you came from and not allowed to re-enter.

They should also screen the illegals for those who came to escape things such as abuse etc,
those people should be allowed a visa and a set structured way of getting citizenship.

I don't think illegals should reap any benefits from the gov unless special circumstances require it, and at that point they would not be illegal anymore, but on a special visa due to circumstances wherever they came from.
Anyone found hiring an illegal should face MANDITORY jail time of at least 30 days to make them think twice.
But that is just my opinion.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 11:58 AM
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I have lived in AZ and have seen quite a few aspects of illegal immigration:

I'll give you a few examples:

I knew one family that came to AZ legally, they were hard working, clean, considerate and kind.

Had some other neighbors who came here illegally, they were drug dealers, collected benefits, and encouraged their children to have more kids while they were under the age of 16; this was told to me by their 11 year old daughter while she was having lunch at my house (she and my son were friends), she was crying telling me about it, and had stated she wanted to go to college. I told her college would be best, and waited for the parents to give me # about it. Never happened because they left one night - poof they were gone.

Had a brother in law who had ties to drug gang (don't know whom) there, found out after moving there; never found out much about them other than they were polite to me the few times I got stuck in their presence. I heard one was killed, no idea what happened to other 3 I met. Ex bil vanishes from time to time; only find out because my ex will call crying about it. After months of no word, someone will confirm he's alive. He isn't the person I used to know.

When I seperated from my ex while in AZ I applied for welfare, while waiting 4 hours for your deli ticket # to be called, I chatted up a sweet girl I was sitting next to. She had 2 kids, no car and cancer, she worked 2 jobs and was continually harassed by welfare to get another one. I still pray for her to this day. Her name was Hope! I was denied because I could not find my divorce paper. Luckily I had great neighbors who would bring my child and me food, and always invited us to their houses for dinner that last month. There was, and I am not kidding, a man in nice golf apparel, who complained so loudly, they took care of him before Hope or I. I thought wtf country am I in? It was awful. I have also worked my entire life.

So fast forward, I sell my car on Craigslist, get plane tickets home, call welfare to let them know to cancel my application, they actually want me to put it in writing, and gave me a hard time.

While I lived in AZ, I did all my own yard work, and it would take me hours, but I refused to pay someone for something I can do.

Also knew a woman, who moved back to Mexico, she hated it here.

I think everyone who comes here should be treated the same as people who were born here, that means legalize them, let them pay taxes, and keep if fair!
edit on 24-7-2016 by KTemplar because: (no reason given)



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