Why The Liberal Left Is Dismayed By The Recent Surge In Nationalism

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: DJW001

Perhaps you could point to this "humanity" you and I are sharing. Is it a feeling? Is it an idea? Help me to understand.

It is biology. We all share 99.9% of our DNA with each other. This shared inheritance produces all of what we call our "identities," including mental constructions like "nationality.-

And yet everybody has different DNA.

No, they have the same DNA, just different genes.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Nationalism is the only rational form of solidarity. The rest—solidarity by race, religion, by economic standing and other tribalisms—do not bind people by any rational self-interest. Shared assets, shared territory, and common bonds such as these, make nationalism the best form of group sentiment and attachment within any given state.

It's still just an artificially created group though. Not much different than using Communism, Tribalism, Stateism, or some other artificial grouping of people.

You could also do it as Globalism and we'd all be one grouping there too. However, it seems that as we expand from tribes to states to nations and to the whole globe, each expansion seems to get more difficult to maintain for various reasons. It's always a battle between individualism and collectivism. On one end you have Anarchy and the other Globalism.

a reply to: mOjOm

"Nation" is definitely artificial, like any grouping, but this one is bound by a demarcated territory, demarcated laws, and a demarcated "identity", insofar as people living within it share the same rights, legal and nominal. Because of the relative ease with which people can travel between nations, and with a little effort to become a citizen, technically anyone can become a part of this or that nation, making a civic nationalism a more liberal and democratic tribalism than religion, race or any other artificial grouping. The better nations beget better people. Better nations beget better neighbors.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The better nations beget better people. Better nations beget better neighbors.

Is that why Israel is surrounded by enemies??

a reply to: mOjOm

I've been to Isreal, and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon. They seemed decent neighbors as far as I could tell.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Many nations have poorly defined borders and unfairly applied laws. How does nationalism help the people living under those conditions.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Many nations have poorly defined borders and unfairly applied laws. How does nationalism help the people living under those conditions.

It doesn't, but I would argue a nation that doesn't apply to all it's citizens is not a nation.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: AboveBoard

Let’s look at a few numbers. You haven’t seen them in the New York Times, Atlanta Constitution, or the Miami Herald, nor have they been featured on NBC Nightly news or CNN. So, the average American is blissfully unaware of them.


Between 2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%.

During those years, criminal aliens accounted for 38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.

That 38% represents 7,085 murders out of the total of 18,643.


That 5.6% figure for the average illegal alien population in those five states comes from US Census estimates. We know the real number is double that official estimate. Yet, even if it is 11%, it is still shameful that the percentage of murders by criminal aliens is more than triple the illegal population in those states.

Those astounding numbers were compiled by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) using official Department of Justice data on criminal aliens in the nation’s correctional system. The numbers were the basis for a presentation at a recent New Hampshire conference sponsored by the highly respected Center for Security Policy.

Illegal Alien Crime Accounts for over 30% of Murders in Many States

You mean the debunked Brietbart article? Link - Politifact

a reply to: AboveBoard

Hi AboveBoard. I just wanted to tell you that this is one the best posts I have read on here in many days. If you don't mind, I'm going to add you to my 'friend' list, so that I may more easily follow your posts.

The choice people IS:

Who do you want to be ?

The BORG-Communists.

The Federation= Globalist Socialist NEOCONS with endless war and free stuff.

The Ferengi= Capitalists.

Choose wisely.

There is nationalism.

And there is ULTRA nationalism where people are 'citizens' of the world.

And blindly accept the new world order of protecting the planet under the false pretense they care, only to be outright authoritarian.

The 'liberal' left only feigns outrage at 'nationalism' when they support take overs of business, banking,and industry, and now the police.

a reply to: neo96

Any Group of People establishing a Nation , have a God Given Right to do so According to their Own Common Personal Beliefs , and not of Others who find it Necessary to Tell them Otherwise......

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

NO one has rights AT ALL until their fellow men men support AND defend them,GOD or no.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

All Men Defend Themselves , they are either Successful or Dead .

originally posted by: neo96
The choice people IS:

Who do you want to be ?

The BORG-Communists.

The Federation= Globalist Socialist NEOCONS with endless war and free stuff.

The Ferengi= Capitalists.

Choose wisely.

There is nationalism.

And there is ULTRA nationalism where people are 'citizens' of the world.

And blindly accept the new world order of protecting the planet under the false pretense they care, only to be outright authoritarian.

The 'liberal' left only feigns outrage at 'nationalism' when they support take overs of business, banking,and industry, and now the police.

Ferengi? No Thanks!!!



Federation? Well, I'm not sure how they get there but...hmmmm


To boldly go where no one has gone before...


I can see how that would strike fear into the heart of competitive capitalists and power seekers. I can see how it seems "Anti-American" and such.

But reality is we are NOT the Federation. There is plenty of human pain and misery and competition left in the Corporate Owned world of our current Farengi-minded globalists (see above example) to go around and last for centuries, until we grow out of it.

peace,
AB

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: maddy21

Nationalism or even any "national identity" stands in the way of a One World Government (or governance). This is why you see the insanity in Europe. They must flood a nation with people who do not share the same values as the native (nationalist) population as well as swaying that native population into accepting a socialist dictatorship.

Nearly everywhere else has been flooded with Europeans who don't share the values of the country that they have invaded...

a reply to: AboveBoard

A Klingon agrees...

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: maddy21

Nationalism or even any "national identity" stands in the way of a One World Government (or governance). This is why you see the insanity in Europe.

Haha... no that's a complete MYTH.

Nationalism is on the contrary excessively useful to globalization. By keeping the sheep in their enclosures, and making them always more defensive about these, while the corporate/financial establishment can have it its way like the global citizens they are. Just as (some of) the French can still pretend at national unity while international Islamo-fascist groups claim the whole planet for themselves.

Moving forward simply cannot mean going backwards. We gotta think planetary, as a human species, not like same soups sealed in cans of different brands. There's no other choice if you wanna win against the "globalists".

Nationalism is one of the many forms of compartmentalization. It's putting people into predefined political boxes, so to keep them separated and distant from each other. Boxes delimited by purely conceptual and mental borders. That makes a very profitable business out of the flow of migrants... without which tons of border-crossing crooks couldn't make a dime.

So is the compete hypocrisy of nationalism and its borders... especially now in Europe and in Central America.

...and you though the Hillary/Soros crowd would bring forth a global superstate through the UN?

lol... Trump will just fulfill your worst NWO conspiracy theories, but that's going to be through a complete fusion of the US with the BRICSA power bloc, under the glorious veil of ultra-nationalism.

Just look at Drumpf's honeymoon with Putin if you don't believe me. Best romantic bed buddies since Bush and the Saudi King!

originally posted by: buster2010
Ask the Jews how great nationalism was for them in WW2.

Because modern American nationalism is totally the same thing as 1930's German nationalism

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: maddy21

Norway
Sweden
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Belgium
China

.. and others, put the lie to the basic contention here. All are mixed economies heavily tilted toward socialism and other "leftist" economic ideas.

These are among the largest and richest economies in the world.

The Richest Countries in the World

Top 10 Most Socialist Countries in the World

The United States is a mixed economy. Without considerable government intervention in business, Federal establishment of our country's infrastructure, etc. and other such generally "leftist" ideas, we would never have become the world's largest economy.

All of the bluster about nationalism versus globalism are statements of belief, not facts.

Norway has private dental care (Tanngarden) who can do same day bookinhs but public health service. But Helfo decide your doctor and clinic for you. That gets annoying when your doctor is right next to your home but you are only free during work lunchtimes and there is a medical practice right next door downtown. Canada was the same as Norway.

In the UK you can choose your doctor with the NHS but have to wait two weeks for an appointment. Sweden might be the same. Sweden avoided recessions by going for continued employment with workers but on reduced hours with job sharing and subsidized housing.

originally posted by: chuck258

originally posted by: buster2010
Ask the Jews how great nationalism was for them in WW2.

Because modern American nationalism is totally the same thing as 1930's German nationalism

Give it time.