Why The Liberal Left Is Dismayed By The Recent Surge In Nationalism

originally posted by: Gryphon66
He's the most unpopular Presidential Candidate in modern history. He has trailed every possible Democratic opponent for months. The people see him for what he is, and, will soundly reject his thinly-veiled nationalist/fascist message.
Thank you for it out so clearly though! Great thread.

We will find out about trump soon enough, the more terror attacks that happen the more support he will get. All he has to say is "I told you so"

a reply to: UKTruth

Or does racism mean whites have to vote with the minority or they are racists,

Your words, not mine. The poll reflects a clear racial divide on the issue. Please stop deflecting. In your opinion, when does nationalism blur into racial purity?

a reply to: maddy21

We will find out about trump soon enough, the more terror attacks that happen the more support he will get. All he has to say is "I told you so"

In other words, the Trump campaign has the most motivation to promote terror attacks. From now on, every terror attack will fly the Trump false flag.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

Or does racism mean whites have to vote with the minority or they are racists,

Your words, not mine. The poll reflects a clear racial divide on the issue. Please stop deflecting. In your opinion, when does nationalism blur into racial purity?

No, just pointing out your stats actually disprove your point.
But still, nationalism has nothing to do with racism. Extreme right AND left positions certainly do, but that is another matter.

originally posted by: maddy21

originally posted by: Gryphon66
He's the most unpopular Presidential Candidate in modern history. He has trailed every possible Democratic opponent for months. The people see him for what he is, and, will soundly reject his thinly-veiled nationalist/fascist message.
Thank you for it out so clearly though! Great thread.

We will find out about trump soon enough, the more terror attacks that happen the more support he will get. All he has to say is "I told you so"

Kinda like the Reichstag fire, eh?

Ivana did say that Adie's book of speeches was on Donald's bedside table; you may be right.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

Or does racism mean whites have to vote with the minority or they are racists,

Your words, not mine. The poll reflects a clear racial divide on the issue. Please stop deflecting. In your opinion, when does nationalism blur into racial purity?

No, just pointing out your stats actually disprove your point.
But still, nationalism has nothing to do with racism. Extreme right AND left positions certainly do, but that is another matter.

I don't mean to chime in ... but, don't you think "nationalism has nothing to do with racism" is a bit of a wild leap?

Every nationalist argues for national purity, a return to the days before society was corrupted with lesser peoples, etc.

I mean ... like EVERY historical example ... are you sure?

a reply to: UKTruth

No, just pointing out your stats actually disprove your point.

Explain why:

Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain,

as opposed to the roughly 50-50 split overall?

as did three quarters (73%) of black voters.

Because?

seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

It couldn't be that they were afraid of something, could it?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

No, just pointing out your stats actually disprove your point.

Explain why:

Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain,

as opposed to the roughly 50-50 split overall?

as did three quarters (73%) of black voters.

Because?

seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

It couldn't be that they were afraid of something, could it?

I will (and it's obvious) as soon as you explain to me how a 53%-47% of white voters wanting to leave shows racism.

a reply to: DJW001

Racial purity is used only when it is done so for division,it violates the values of America,all are to walk side by side,nobody leads.
It is the basis of logic we all know yet completely ignore.
THAT and everything is linked.
Sucks to to know that and watch this.
When politicians use a skin shade as an obstructive weapon then we know the desperation of the effort.
How sad is it to even believe such a thing could happen by a force of arms against the other shade of skin.
Pathetic.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

Or does racism mean whites have to vote with the minority or they are racists,

Your words, not mine. The poll reflects a clear racial divide on the issue. Please stop deflecting. In your opinion, when does nationalism blur into racial purity?

No, just pointing out your stats actually disprove your point.
But still, nationalism has nothing to do with racism. Extreme right AND left positions certainly do, but that is another matter.

I don't mean to chime in ... but, don't you think "nationalism has nothing to do with racism" is a bit of a wild leap?

Every nationalist argues for national purity, a return to the days before society was corrupted with lesser peoples, etc.

I mean ... like EVERY historical example ... are you sure?

National purity does not equal racial purity.
When you get into fascist ideologies then you run into bigotry and racism, in my view.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

Or does racism mean whites have to vote with the minority or they are racists,

Your words, not mine. The poll reflects a clear racial divide on the issue. Please stop deflecting. In your opinion, when does nationalism blur into racial purity?

No, just pointing out your stats actually disprove your point.
But still, nationalism has nothing to do with racism. Extreme right AND left positions certainly do, but that is another matter.

I don't mean to chime in ... but, don't you think "nationalism has nothing to do with racism" is a bit of a wild leap?

Every nationalist argues for national purity, a return to the days before society was corrupted with lesser peoples, etc.

I mean ... like EVERY historical example ... are you sure?

National purity does not equal racial purity.
When you get into fascist ideologies then you run into bigotry and racism, in my view.

If you are viewing racism and ethnic hatred as separate, possibly ... in my view they're bastard-inbred-first-married-cousins.

"Purity" is the problem concept here.

Purity leads to purges.

a reply to: UKTruth

America isn't even ABOUT political parties it is about and idea of a Republic.
The parties are establishing control over individual rights, they are now ONLY broken words ,you can only tell by what they do.
Lawyers are good at that ,that's why so many run the country.
With such a callous hand ,it's no wonder we reject the idea of giving them more power.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: UKTruth

Or does racism mean whites have to vote with the minority or they are racists,

Your words, not mine. The poll reflects a clear racial divide on the issue. Please stop deflecting. In your opinion, when does nationalism blur into racial purity?

No, just pointing out your stats actually disprove your point.
But still, nationalism has nothing to do with racism. Extreme right AND left positions certainly do, but that is another matter.

I don't mean to chime in ... but, don't you think "nationalism has nothing to do with racism" is a bit of a wild leap?

Every nationalist argues for national purity, a return to the days before society was corrupted with lesser peoples, etc.

I mean ... like EVERY historical example ... are you sure?

National purity does not equal racial purity.
When you get into fascist ideologies then you run into bigotry and racism, in my view.

If you are viewing racism and ethnic hatred as separate, possibly ... in my view they're bastard-inbred-first-married-cousins.

"Purity" is the problem concept here.

Purity leads to purges.

Cultures within countries are different and have grown over generations - they can be enjoyed and practised by any race, colour or creed. In my view the problem comes when you try and change a countries' identity too quickly and in a direction that is neither organic or accepted by the people - and that is when nationalism steps to the fore.
Facism is an extreme ideology that purges based on racism, bigotry and violence.
Fascism does not equal nationalism. The same way patriotism does not equal racism.

This why the left hates nationalism.

a reply to: maddy21
But , at the heart of any financial system , lies the good ol globally connected Central Banks of those individual countries.

a reply to: UKTruth

I will (and it's obvious) as soon as you explain to me how a 53%-47% of white voters wanting to leave shows racism.

I didn't say that it did, did I? Your turn: what are the minorities in your country afraid of now that it has left the EU?

a reply to: UKTruth

Yes, I don't disagree with any of that per se ... but you seem to be dancing around the question.

Nationalism is based on some idea of purity. "Real Americans" in the case of Republicans and Mr. Trump.

Purity, again, is the issue. There cannot be purity without the removal of the "impure."

For nationalistic political movements, those "impurities" are almost always, racial, ethnic, religious etc.

The "fear" is not that America will become "great" - it IS great, and 1950's rhetoric will not make it better, only backwards in some sort of "Happy Days" revival of "wholesome good America" which is a myth to begin with. Normal Rockwell painted idealism, he did not paint realism.

Anyway.

My personal fear? It isn't giant flags everywhere. It's giant pictures of Trump superimposed over the flag with his name in giant gold letters because TRUMP somehow has superseded the flag with his own ideas of American Nationalism and wants nothing less than to be Putin's mirror in the west.

That is my fear and my opinion based on what I see in Trump. Other people see the shine of the gold throne he seated himself upon and the pretty gold letters of his giant name and feel nostalgia for an America that existed largely in people's collective imaginations.

The "dismay" on my part isn't because I don't love America because I do. I love my country. For example, I love the National Forests and spent many years camping in them as a kid with my family. I don't want those to be handed over to corporations by the States (who don't own the land because it was purchased/fought for as Federal Territories long before the States were ratified and had their governments set up...).

What's really scary is that the "right" thinks that their brand of Nationalism (ala Trumpism) is somehow the "REAL" love of country that "REAL" Americans feel who are the "REAL" inheritors of all the good of America and if you DON'T have their brand of TRUMP-NATIONALISM you are AGAINST AMERICA!! You are therefore worthy of being DIS-ihherited from all the good of America...

You see how that works? How America, in all its beauty and glorious potential, dies?

= AB

a reply to: Konduit

We don't hate "nationalism" at all ...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Yes, I don't disagree with any of that per se ... but you seem to be dancing around the question.

Nationalism is based on some idea of purity. "Real Americans" in the case of Republicans and Mr. Trump.

Purity, again, is the issue. There cannot be purity without the removal of the "impure."

For nationalistic political movements, those "impurities" are almost always, racial, ethnic, religious etc.

I am not sure i follow you. If you have in your mind that the term 'real American' has racial connotations, is it not yourself that has some racial issues? Why can't a black person, a Muslim, a hispanic, an asian or a native American be a real American?