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Why The Liberal Left Is Dismayed By The Recent Surge In Nationalism

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posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: thinline


Nationalism didn't kill the Jews. Racial purity killed the Jews.


Where does nationalism stop and racial purity begin?




posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:11 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: thinline


Nationalism didn't kill the Jews. Racial purity killed the Jews.


Where does nationalism stop and racial purity begin?


I think England might provide us with an example of nationalism without racial purity with the recent "Brexit" thing.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

It's nothing more than communism, globalism, one-world-government control.

And the people are foolishly supporting it.

The very idea of freedom, individualism is abhorrent to the left because they have been fooled into thinking that we actually need a nanny-state big government to function.


As a socially conservative communist libertarian, I'm going to have to strongly disagree.

While you and I may not need a big nanny authoritarian government to function, many of our countrymen do.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:24 AM
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Left and communism has been a failure where ever it was implemented


How many "left" countries, or even states, have you been to??

The worst countries in the world are all conservative, the best are liberal. It's not even debatable. Right wing societies like in the middle east, central asia and Africa are horrible, deadly places that can't even compare to places like Europe and North America.

The US is going down the toilet partly because of the rise of conservatism here and the massive dumbing down of the population (and growth of the dumb portion of the population).



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:30 AM
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originally posted by: Bone75

While you and I may not need a big nanny authoritarian government to function, many of our countrymen do.


Right ... especially big corporations like Exxon and Johnson & Johnson, billionaire CEOS that actually get to write OFF their obscene bonuses, luxury jets, etc.

Let's get rid of the freeloaders costing us billions before we worry so much about the ones costing us pennies.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:47 AM
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originally posted by: buster2010
Ask the Jews how great nationalism was for them in WW2.


Considering the fact that they didn't have a nation prior to WWII, I'd say nationalism has worked in their favor on multiple fronts.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bone75

While you and I may not need a big nanny authoritarian government to function, many of our countrymen do.


Right ... especially big corporations like Exxon and Johnson & Johnson, billionaire CEOS that actually get to write OFF their obscene bonuses, luxury jets, etc.

Let's get rid of the freeloaders costing us billions before we worry so much about the ones costing us pennies.


Increasing taxes on the rich isn't going to make my social security collecting, foodstamp collecting, welfare collecting, child support collecting, Lincoln driving, three story house living, unemployed baby's momma go get a job.

She might be able to go get her hair and nails done more than once a week though.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:51 AM
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originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bone75

While you and I may not need a big nanny authoritarian government to function, many of our countrymen do.


Right ... especially big corporations like Exxon and Johnson & Johnson, billionaire CEOS that actually get to write OFF their obscene bonuses, luxury jets, etc.

Let's get rid of the freeloaders costing us billions before we worry so much about the ones costing us pennies.


Increasing taxes on the rich isn't going to make my social security collecting, foodstamp collecting, welfare collecting, child support collecting, Lincoln driving, three story house living, unemployed baby's momma go get a job.

She might be able to go get her hair and nails done more than once a week though.


Perhaps you should have focused on a mate that shared your "family values" more?

Sounds like you want to make your personal problems our problems. /shrug



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: Bobaganoosh

originally posted by: buster2010
Ask the Jews how great nationalism was for them in WW2.


Considering the fact that they didn't have a nation prior to WWII, I'd say nationalism has worked in their favor on multiple fronts.


Not so much for the Palestinians though ... you know, the people who had been living there for 1800 and more years?

Oh well, to the victors go the spoils, as they say.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

That's a very powerful article. Thanks for the reference to it.

I found the following quite true and insightful:
"Left-liberal elites – who are opinion makers in powerful circles the world over – seem to have little respect for the will of the people if it does not match their own. The emotions of the common folk, like nationalism and religiosity, are always rubbished by the Left as irrelevant once a progressive agenda is put in motion. They believed that, once exposed to a progressive ‘experience’, the masses would gradually see the errors of their past and fully embrace the supposedly higher morality of the global Left."

That's important because it points out 2 things: 1) Leftists are actually quite "authoritarian"; their way or the highway, then 2) they win their arguments by controlling the language of debate such that they always appear to be talking from a position of occupying the Moral High Ground which they define.

"The sentiments from within the Marxist echo chamber are often of mutual aggrandisement and demonisation of those who deviate from their ‘liberal’ ideals. In short, the Left, it would seem, has different standards for different people. Those who agree with them are deemed to be fellow-liberals and intellectuals while those who don’t are haughtily cast away as regressive or the proverbial ‘fascist’."

That is profoundly true.

The Leftists have created a very dangerous paradox in that in trying to stamp out nationalism, they've created the "reaction" they were trying to stamp out. If the world goes full on Nationalist, it will soon find itself embroiled in yet another World War over resources only this time, the slaughter will be in terms of Billions of people.....it will be a true mass extinction event.

On the other hand, what the "Nationalists" in the US and Britain don't get is that the Left has already one; Nationalism is dead because the Leftists have for the last 70 years controlled the Educational institutions. In Britain, the youth wanted to remain in the EU. In the US, the youth burn the flag and self-identify as World Citizens rather than US Citizens and they embrace the Leftist ideologies of Sanders and Clinton.

So how is it the Leftists have won and succeeded in killing Nationalism? Nationalistic, Patriotic, Geriatrics don't fight and win wars and the Leftist Youth certainly aren't going to sign up to fight and die for the Stars and Stripes.

You can't very well have a war without someone to fight it. Or can you?

Enter.............ISIS! They and their Jihadist friends may be the Leftists Achilles heel!



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: TonyS

But ... but ... but ... nationalism is alive and well? Right?

Trump is restoring America and is going to win in a landslide, right?

The "Silent Majority" and all that stuff?

These arguments get so confusing sometimes.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I don't find individualism and nationalism to be connected at all. This is a lie in my experience.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:02 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Agree 100%.

I'm not pro-Israel.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: Bobaganoosh
a reply to: Gryphon66

Agree 100%.

I'm not pro-Israel.


I understand.

I just wanted to remind some others who might not realize the significance of your comment in light of the topic.




posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:19 AM
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they always appear to be talking from a position of occupying the Moral High Ground which they define


I thought conservatives wanted morals?? The moral majority and all that.

The fact is that a lot of progressive ideology is more moral than conservatives ones. Conservatives want constant war, business exploitation, and massive inequality of wealth and power.

Liberals want a society that emphasizes the well-being of the largest number of people, at least in theory anyways.

And by the way, who's always trying to say that they have the only moral principles and if you don't follow them you're a communist or anti-American? It's not the left.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: maddy21

Norway
Sweden
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Belgium
China

.. and others, put the lie to the basic contention here. All are mixed economies heavily tilted toward socialism and other "leftist" economic ideas.

These are among the largest and richest economies in the world.

The Richest Countries in the World

Top 10 Most Socialist Countries in the World

The United States is a mixed economy. Without considerable government intervention in business, Federal establishment of our country's infrastructure, etc. and other such generally "leftist" ideas, we would never have become the world's largest economy.

All of the bluster about nationalism versus globalism are statements of belief, not facts.



Leftist principles can only be taken into account after a nation has been fully developed, If you have a large number of population of poor then resources will have to be spent carefully. Nations like India and China and others will never be developed without massive industrialization. Leftist principles and economics in India left 800million people below poverty with lack of access to roads, and infrastructure while the leftist leaders themselves lived like kings... Its only after liberalization and Several economic reforms, opening up of markets the economy and its people started to progress.
True progress can only come when people have the freedom to decide their own future. Those living under govt. money are the slaves of the govt.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: deuceawesome


I think England might provide us with an example of nationalism without racial purity with the recent "Brexit" thing.


Seriously?


White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.


lordashcroftpolls.com...



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: TonyS

But ... but ... but ... nationalism is alive and well? Right?

Trump is restoring America and is going to win in a landslide, right?

The "Silent Majority" and all that stuff?

These arguments get so confusing sometimes.


Irrelevant weather trump can save america or not, what cannot be ignored is he has massive support among the people, precisely because the leftists tried to enforce principles which a society was not ready to accept.



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: deuceawesome


I think England might provide us with an example of nationalism without racial purity with the recent "Brexit" thing.


Seriously?


White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.


lordashcroftpolls.com...


So a 53% to 47% amongst white's is racist???

Or does racism mean whites have to vote with the minority or they are racists,

edit on 24/7/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2016 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: maddy21

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: TonyS

But ... but ... but ... nationalism is alive and well? Right?

Trump is restoring America and is going to win in a landslide, right?

The "Silent Majority" and all that stuff?

These arguments get so confusing sometimes.


Irrelevant weather trump can save america or not, what cannot be ignored is he has massive support among the people, precisely because the leftists tried to enforce principles which a society was not ready to accept.


He's the most unpopular Presidential Candidate in modern history. He has trailed every possible Democratic opponent for months. The people see him for what he is, and, will soundly reject his thinly-veiled nationalist/fascist message.

Thank you for it out so clearly though! Great thread.




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