a reply to: pthena
I have a rather fiercely strong bias agreeing with the man . . . though I'm not sure that way of handling it would be quite right in all cases.
I could certainly imagine The Lord leading someone to do that.
But generally, I think the proper way is to approach the individual first privately.
THEN take another brother or two and go to the person. If there has been no contrition, humility, etc.
THEN take it before the church--and the way the man did it is as . . . reasonable in a sense . . . as a lot of others. I too many cases, there's
little other remotely effective way to slice through the political control cr*p to achieve such a move.
. . . of course . . . I've been accused by one boss to my wife . . . of being the sort of person that likes to stand up in church and yell "sh*t" just
to see where everyone stands.
And, I have a life-long hostility to hypocrisy in 'high' religious circles.
And, I have a life-long hostility to religious leaders circling the wagons and refusing to deal with the facts of their own cr*p--usually labeling
those who raise the issues as "troublemakers" and marginalizing them or excommunicating them in some at least social or organizational way.
In this case as stated . . . one would assume, hope that the man followed the Biblical steps I outlined above, FIRST. If he didn't he was LIKELY (not
certainly--there can be exceptions) out of order.
I assume he did NOT shake the dust off his shoes against the pastor or congregation.
Groups--particularly religious groups and religious leaders--are VERY PRONE to IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP* mentalities, customs, habits.
Some of that is reasonable. A group of Jihadi's and an Assembly of God congregation are VERY different and not likely to have much congruent, workable
fellowship and mutual support.
And, one Christian denomination--Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod--prides itself in their "Fellowship Doctrine." i.e. they refuse to fellowship,
worship, share communion with anyone that doesn't strictly and narrowly agree with their long list of distinctives.
THE TROUBLE IS--NO ONE DOES!!!
As stated and practiced--with some of the more honest ones admitting it--EVEN THE TOP LEVELS
OF THE LEADERSHIP DISAGREE with one another on some of the major distinctives. So the whole Fellowship Doctrine as they state it and practice it--IS A
They did not appreciate my vigorously pointing that out to them--though some privately admitted I was correct.
They are an example of the IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP DYNAMICS going off the rails, imho.
And, it is a CONSTANT danger in Christian groups--with most--sooner or later going off the rails !!!DEMANDING!!! IN-GROUP conformity else individuals
are trashed in favor of a farcical narrow rigidity over minor cr*p vs included in the broadly inclusive Brotherhood under Christ's Blood covering and
Yet, there ARE very fitting and reasonable criteria, reasons for saying--that individual has stepped too far over the line and by their own choices,
definitions and behaviors cannot any longer be considered to be a reasonably compliant, cooperative and agreeable member of our group. Therefore, they
are now found and declared to be part of the OUT-GROUP.
But too many Christian congregations can be too eager to label someone an OUT-GROUP member.
Others include satan worshipers as acceptable members of their "Christian" group--which is absurd idiocy.
Some measure of Biblical balance is called for.
In the case of the OP . . . I don't know that we have sufficient information to fairly judge the man's actions. I can imagine several cases where he
had no other reasonable recourse but to do as he did. Yet, in general, he should have gone through the Biblical steps, first. Maybe he did.
*Freud was the originator of the IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP labels and analysis. He once said that even a religion of love would be unloving to those not
members of it. And far too many Christian groups have proven him right. . . . though generally I think he was a hypocritical dirty old man with a lot
wrong with his schema. Sometimes he was very perceptive about human and social realities.
edit on 24/7/2016 by BO XIAN because: added