Who is using who?

As we are told, terrorists like those from the "IS", want to destroy out liberties, freedoms, our western lifestyle.
And then there is the other side, "our" western security officials, secret services, politicians, that act as if they would try to defend our liberties, freedoms, our western lifestyle. But ironically, with the excuse "Protecting the people from terror attacks" they destroy even what they should protect.
As we all know it was the west that opened the Pandoras Box with the muslims, first to fight the russians, later to replace the russians with muslims , as the new bogeyman, after the russians didn´t work anymore after the first cold war "ended". Remember the pictures of Afghanistan, Brezinski, Bin Laden in the 1980´s! Remember the Arab Spring! Remember the pictures of McCain meeting Al Baghdadi! Remember that arming of "moderate" muslim fighters that behead little boys nowadays!
But after the last terror events and the reactions of some, almost all western nations, after seeing how the whole western mass media tries to scare the people to death because of "IS" terrorism, it raises the question:
Who is using who? Who is ones tool, and who is the craftsman?
Might it be that the so called "IS" simply is using the western security officials and their behaviour to destroy our liberties, our freedoms, our western lifestyle? I mean, nowadays somebody only has to shout "Allahu Akbar" , and it´s called "IS" terrorism. Because everyone can become an "IS" terrorist, by saying that one did it in the name of the "IS". And sending a, for example, self-, in germany made video to Amaq.
And when it´s "IS" terrorism, what becomes destroyed instantly by "our" security officials, bit by bit, slowly and often almost silent, in secret? Right, our freedoms, our liberties, our lifestyle as we knew it for decades. The problem here is, "our" western security officials seem to be very happy with the "IS"-, the terror situation. Because they get more and more power to use it against our liberties, freedoms and our western lifestyle. And they use this powers to threat every single citizen as a potential terrorist.
Because otherwise it wouldn´t make any sense to try to spy on every single citizen, his internet and mobile phone actions, putting surveillance cameras everywhere, it wouldn´t make sense to store all that data and create profiles, collecting biometrical pictures and fingerprints about every single citizen, even if it is "Lieschen Müller" and she is a 89 years old, christian, religious and completely innocent and sane woman.
All that is done to observe us, the people, not to find any terrorists or to protect us from terrorism. Is terrorism vanishing or growing since 9/11 and the whole theatrical "security" performance after that? Believe me, "real" terrorists don´t use simple spyPhones to plan and prepare attacks, they don´t need to use the internet for that, and they don´t, because they know that this the most dumb thing a terrorist could do.
Did the western security officials make it that easy for the "IS" to destroy our liberties, our freedoms, our western lifestyle? And are they the tool of the so called "IS"? Is it that simple for the "IS" to use the western security officials to reach their goals? Or is it simply a win-win situation, for the "IS" and the western security officials?
Is the "IS" used by the western security officials, the so called "anti-terror forces", to create a Big Brother society a´la 1984 all over the western nations, maybe China and North Corea as role model? Is the whole westernmade muslim terror problem just running as planned? So that the security officials can act as if they would fight the terror, but in reality they are creating a "Brave New World"?
And it seems that most people don´t think one second for themselves anymore, but they think what they are told to think by mass media, clearly a propaganda tool of "our rulers". The people are thankful to the security officials and praising the rest of their liberties, freedoms... you know what i mean, to them, in hope that they got protected from terror. Nobody seems to mention: The more surveillance, the more lost rights of the people, cutting their freedoms, censoring everything that doens´t fit in the rulers PC agendat, he MORE terror attacks happen. And the most of them done by in europe born people, if we take europe as an example.
Look at France, internet-, phone surveillance more than any other western state in europe, state of emergeny extended with every terror attack that happened, since months. Which lefts the people more or the less with no rights. That "coincidentally" comes in handy when protests are running since months, because of the french rulers attempt to transformate France into another low wages Hartz4 Germany. Into another "slave for the rich and the economics" state. Good for rulers if the can suppress every kind of demonstrations, because it´s state of emergency, isn`t it?
The french people booed at "their" Premier Valls, i bet not at least because the french people offered all their rights, accepted the state of emergency, that cutting of freedoms again and again, with the only outcome that terror attacks raise in numbers. So what is all that surveillance on all people, citizens, potential terrorists good for? And why are the so called security officials awarded with more powers to cut the peoples freedoms, rights etc, after every fail? Since one are secret services, security officials, rewarded for failing? If you check it, it´s since 9/11.
No terror attacks, no fails from security officials(otherwise there wouldn´t be terror attacks), no needs for surveillance on all people that has to be accepted, applauded by the people. But how to create a 1984ish world then? What the west definitely is doing since 9/11! If one counts one point to another, the western surveillance state creators are using the "IS" as a tool, to creat their Brave New, 1984ish World.
Because they profit most, can act in plain sight and get hailed as protectors while doing that, slowly and often secretly, what the muslim terrorist are accused to try on the western societies. Cutting rights, freedoms, liberties, destroying the western way of life, to be replaced by constant fear, total surveillance and police states. And by the people praising the alleged one and only protectors, the western "security" officials, for protecting "us" from terror. What doesn´t work that good, as it seems.
Terror that maybe even sometimes is created by those "security" officials themselves , or overwatched by them, maybe guided, controlled, but not stopped. People with not that much brain or even people with mental problems were often used by secret services, tricked into something that the "terrorists" never had thought of. To gain more powers. Evidence is out there, worldwide.
For me it seems the rich and because of that powerful are creating an anti-terror-world for themselves. And we, the people, are the future terrorists they prepare for now. They know that the next stock market crash is not far away, because they are the ones "playing" in that "casino". They see the EU, their toy, crumbling more and more. Seeing America, the two evils that are to vote for, the problems with their elites street army(the US police), the never solved racial and education problems, the inequality between the people there, it´s not even hard to see a civil war uprising there.
look down to continue

The rich and because of that powerful know that the people meanwhile mentioned that they are slaves in open air jails, slaves for the rich, the banksters, the multinational corporations... that whole greedy scum that causes the most and heaviest problems on earth, by inequality, greed, their hunger for more and more and more for themselves, at all costs. They know that more and more people use the internet and don´t believe the filtered, censored propaganda mass media"news" anymore, that´s the reason the censor now everything that doesn´t fit the agenda. That´s the reason why the internet isn´t free anymore, as it was in the beginning.

That´s the reason why laws are created, in the name of "the fight against the terror", that make no sense if they are created to help against terrorism. like buying sim cards in germany now is only allowed with showing your ID and leaving your data. Not even in ISRAEL this is an anti terror tool, because it´s completely senseless. Only if you want to spy on "your own" people, then such laws make sense.

To come to an end, even if the "IS" is simply using the western "security" officials, secret services etc as their cheap but effective tool, or if it is the other way around, and that looks more plausible looking at the politics, history of the last 30, 40, 50 years, but especially since 2001, the only losers that i can spot in this actually happening scenario are the people.

And the majority of the, in my eyes brainwashed, people is thankful, hailing the "protectors", offering the best they have to them, their lifetime, their rights, their liberties, their freedoms, but they are still to blind to see that the ones that they are hailing to would not be worth to hail to, if there would not be any kind of bogeyman, like terrorism, the "beloved protectors" had no reason to be beloved.

That´s maybe the reason why every attack nowadays is an "IS" attack, "has to be" an "IS" attack, even if it often feels as if a puppetmaster is spinning criminal acts to "IS" terror acts.

At the end it doesn´t make a big difference of who is using who, because we people are losing the game...

a reply to: DerBeobachter

Things will only be getting worse in respect to terrorism (domestically and abroad). And no, IS is not the only terrorist organization I'm talking about (zipper mouth)

a reply to: FamCore
I use the term for muslim terrorism, because nowadays everything, according to mass media, polticians, secret services is "IS" terrorism. That makes it shorter for me...

On the other side, if a known nazi(rumors of ties to a german secret service, again) stabs a mayor of a capital city in germany in the neck so that she barely survived, then it´s only the deed of an confused culprit, somehow. Even if the lunatic stated in court that he wanted to spread fear and punish her because of Merkels refugee politics.

The Terrorists live in your TV. (and other devices that let you know how terrible the world is, when it actually isn't all that bad)

Attack and kill ( the inanimate, terror instilling object ) it and the fear it implants in your mind dies also.

Just drop everything and walk away and go outside and play.

It is all quite meaningless.

Hypothetically speaking, what if IS was a covert Mossad operation designed to decrease the Arab population in engineered wars with the promise to the IS leaders of an eventual reward of sorts?

Or what if the Syrian war was engineered by America, Russia and at the behest of Israel?

And the 99% of the world's Muslims that are good people take the heat for the 1% who collaborate with IS, or are IS.

Is this something that would shock anyone? That what we are told is not the truth and that wars are planned before the first shot is fired?

Bad "intel' is the reason we invaded the Mid east, we were wrong. Not for taking out Saddam but for destroying the life of the Iraqi people.

In the 70's there was an oil issue, due to our dependence on it. After that issue with OPEC we took great interest in trying to stabilize our oil interests so such things would not occur again.

Of course, the citizens of some middle eastern countries have it really bad off, because they really don't get any of that wealth pumped out of the ground... so when the people say hey why does our life suck so bad? Where's our education, our infrastructure, and opportunity?

The finger gets pointed across borders...

So the only reason that "Pandora's box" was opened is because of that dependency on oil.

We dont have that dependency any longer... we still have ties and relations of various sorts, but if all of that oil flow ceased? We wouldn't bat an eye. So we've learned our lesson about dependency for such major things from other countries that could cripple us. Much the same way a farmer diversifies their crops so if there is a blight then their whole source of income or production isnt wiped out. That was learned in the South very quickly when the Bole Weevil basically wiped out all cotton production... some would say such lesson come hard or for a reason such as karma though.

karma just means whatever the intent behind a cause is what sort of fruit one is going to reap... so using and abusing slaves for cotton picking and production with ill intent and not equal intent of treating the people like human beings but animals, that energy came back as the Bole Weevil in a blight... So negative came back as negative in the cycle of conservation of energy.

Countries aside from people also have such karmic debts... whatever it is that we as a nation or nations get is usually exactly what we deserve... which is why choosing good honest leaders and working on diplomacy and fairness of all peoples and humanity only reaps better rewards. Underhanded and backstabbing others leads to exactly that energy in return... it may not appear as the same form and when isn't exactly calculable but it does return.

Such cycles are things we should work on removing if there was honest intent from all of those involved, the people of the countries wouldn't be suffering all over like they are.

IS might think they are doing work of Allah but they are really doing the work of karma and well any Islamic individual not affiliated will honestly tell you they dont represent them in religion nor behavior either they only represent their own interests.

So of course all of the generalization and lumping is a human fault and a very serious one... some people simply like or enjoy fighting and causing issues and chaos, and well it's not exactly conducive to any sort of society to have such people running around creating terror and reeking havoc just for kicks because destruction brings them pleasure... and having a bunch of followers to reek havoc where they dont have to personally get involved also gives them a sense of power.

It's a suck and twisted thing to do that has no empathy for anyone what so ever, and very sociopathic in nature.

Of course that sort of thing is a dysfunction meaning such people have deep seated issues that should be over come instead of having it fester unchecked over into society.

We already had one president, calling whole countries evil and axis's of it running on into war and chaos... making things way worse and it has been damage control ever sense... collapsing whole economies actually aiding the terror mission that was a direct attack on the economy when we see that thats what the targets were an attempt to do collapse the economy... so do we really want another potus like that, one with no experience whatsoever playing the ego trip power game?

All of this needs fixing, developing stronger ties between nations and their people... not this lets paint broad strokes in generalizations in paranoia throw up as many walls possible and call it nationalism and not the paranoid fear that it actually is by those calling for it.

I'm calling that card a bluff... and a bluff is another term for a cliff we've already been ran like lemmings off of a fiscal cliff once by that agenda, twice? No thanks.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
The Terrorists live in your TV. (and other devices that let you know how terrible the world is, when it actually isn't all that bad)

Attack and kill ( the inanimate, terror instilling object ) it and the fear it implants in your mind dies also.

Just drop everything and walk away and go outside and play.

It is all quite meaningless.

That´s what i do, i am not infected with the artificial terror fear. I am just wondering how one could be in many parts of the western world. Sure it´s the media and all that, but why can some people not see the reality. Those who should protect our liberties and all that, those are the ones that destroy it. One mustn`t be a genius to see that, but the majority of the people seems to feel better with being feared 24/7, but "protected" by the "protectors". But if the people are still feared, the protections can´t be that good...

It seems that the timeline for the beginning of this war is off a bit. By about 950 years.

The crusades had their kickoff about 1050 or so and it was a war started against Muslims by the good Christians of Europe who rode into the middle east to wipe out the scourge that is Islam .. And it was started by the west but no further west than Rome. And it was a world leader but it wasn't a U.S. president it was a Pope.
This is History.

This battle had been waged for centuries and the solution isn't going to come from some new York real estate guy.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

a reply to: Sillyolme
You are right, but i wanted to begin with a history that isn´t that far away...


"...and the solution isn't going to come from some new York real estate guy."

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
In the 70's there was an oil issue, due to our dependence on it. After that issue with OPEC we took great interest in trying to stabilize our oil interests so such things would not occur again.

Of course, the citizens of some middle eastern countries have it really bad off, because they really don't get any of that wealth pumped out of the ground... so when the people say hey why does our life suck so bad? Where's our education, our infrastructure, and opportunity?

The finger gets pointed across borders...

So the only reason that "Pandora's box" was opened is because of that dependency on oil.

We dont have that dependency any longer... we still have ties and relations of various sorts, but if all of that oil flow ceased? We wouldn't bat an eye. So we've learned our lesson about dependency for such major things from other countries that could cripple us. Much the same way a farmer diversifies their crops so if there is a blight then their whole source of income or production isnt wiped out. That was learned in the South very quickly when the Bole Weevil basically wiped out all cotton production... some would say such lesson come hard or for a reason such as karma though.

karma just means whatever the intent behind a cause is what sort of fruit one is going to reap... so using and abusing slaves for cotton picking and production with ill intent and not equal intent of treating the people like human beings but animals, that energy came back as the Bole Weevil in a blight... So negative came back as negative in the cycle of conservation of energy.

Countries aside from people also have such karmic debts... whatever it is that we as a nation or nations get is usually exactly what we deserve... which is why choosing good honest leaders and working on diplomacy and fairness of all peoples and humanity only reaps better rewards. Underhanded and backstabbing others leads to exactly that energy in return... it may not appear as the same form and when isn't exactly calculable but it does return.

Such cycles are things we should work on removing if there was honest intent from all of those involved, the people of the countries wouldn't be suffering all over like they are.

IS might think they are doing work of Allah but they are really doing the work of karma and well any Islamic individual not affiliated will honestly tell you they dont represent them in religion nor behavior either they only represent their own interests.

So of course all of the generalization and lumping is a human fault and a very serious one... some people simply like or enjoy fighting and causing issues and chaos, and well it's not exactly conducive to any sort of society to have such people running around creating terror and reeking havoc just for kicks because destruction brings them pleasure... and having a bunch of followers to reek havoc where they dont have to personally get involved also gives them a sense of power.

It's a suck and twisted thing to do that has no empathy for anyone what so ever, and very sociopathic in nature.

Of course that sort of thing is a dysfunction meaning such people have deep seated issues that should be over come instead of having it fester unchecked over into society.

We already had one president, calling whole countries evil and axis's of it running on into war and chaos... making things way worse and it has been damage control ever sense... collapsing whole economies actually aiding the terror mission that was a direct attack on the economy when we see that thats what the targets were an attempt to do collapse the economy... so do we really want another potus like that, one with no experience whatsoever playing the ego trip power game?

All of this needs fixing, developing stronger ties between nations and their people... not this lets paint broad strokes in generalizations in paranoia throw up as many walls possible and call it nationalism and not the paranoid fear that it actually is by those calling for it.

I'm calling that card a bluff... and a bluff is another term for a cliff we've already been ran like lemmings off of a fiscal cliff once by that agenda, twice? No thanks.

This is one of the most thoughtful and accurate posts I've ever read on ATS. Wow, just wow. So awesome BrotherDarkness, thank you dude!