Largest torrent site's owner arrested, Apple data crucial to investigators

originally posted by: imod02
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
Intresting POV, but I dont think TPTB see it that way

Im not really portraying a point of view that I particularly hold. Im ambiguous here. On the one hand, folks I know who work hard to make things we enjoy should be reimbursed for pouring their love and sweat into a project. On the other hand....

....lets say I am a painter living in the city. I like painting scenes out of my urban window, and my style begins to sell quite a bit. All I do is paint urban scenery, the scenery that I live with.

Before long, Nike shows up with a lawsuit. Apparently, while painting my urban scenery, i captured one of their billboards in my painting. They want recompense for using their logo in my art. Is it right that I would have to remunerate them?

If not, then what about me using a Top 20 song on a YouTube video while it plays over the PA system at a skate park, where I am videoing my friend doing ollies off of a rail?

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: corvuscorrax

Not only that, but a lot of research suggests that piracy helps sales of other kinds of content such as merchandising and ticket sales at the box office.

~Tenth

Many people were "pirates" back in the 70's, when we would record music from the radio. Funny, the record companies didn't seem to lose any sleep over it, because it still boosted sales. Many that recorded that music ended up going to concerts, and eventually buying those records they loved listening to. The music and movie industries need to get their head out of their behinds. Nevertheless, I can't say I am completely against their stance. They just need to loosen their grip a little. The tighter you squeeze, the more that slips through your fingers.

originally posted by: intrptr


Agreed. If they didn't charge so much, there would be less demand for pirated software.

KAT ran for eight years, and the Department of Justice claims that it receives more than 50 million unique visitors per month and is the 69th most frequently visited website on the internet.

Just think if the greedy power hungry content providers utilized a bittorent site like KAT and charged users $30 month for unlimited monthly access.

30 x 50M = 1.5B a month

of-course many will not pay and jump ship but keep in mind that KAT is just one source.

I think that a successful business model can be made that would be reasonable to the consumer and the content owners.

However, they have been control and extortion freaks for far to long to let go of that power that can manipulate the market versus catering to what the consumer wants.

a reply to: okrian

as long as there is an internet. For better or worse, piracy will prevail

Had net neutrality principles got overthrown, that would have killed piracy overnight. The ISP would have gotten legal control of what site and protocols you get access too. Piracy was one of the big push to kill net neutrality.

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
a reply to: Gemwolf

Someone never got the memo to take the site down it seems .

kickass.unblocked.cat...

Servers probs in a different country or even spread around a few or proxied like piratebay or cloud based etc etc plenty of ways for the pirates are hide their loot


Its kind of obvious by now, if the music/movie/game/entertainment business didn't charge so feking much for a shiney little disk (or even a worthless download) then more people would buy them rather then pirate tham

The cinema is so over priced for me to take my family its about 30 - 40 quid just to watch a movie and that's before buying overpriced popcorn and a stupid sized drink that seemed like a good idea at the time but makes me need a pee half way through so always miss a bit of the movie lol bladder of a 5 yr old

DVDS/Blueray are pricey, my mate has a bookshelf full of bluerays he must have spent into the high hundreds over these past few years and half of them hes probs only watched once, they just sit there gathering dust for almost 20 quid+ each

New games cost an obscene amount, I rarely buy games for my PS4 but used to buy them for my PS3 as they were cheaper, almost half the price of the new PS4 games which aren't really any better then my PS3

Music artists always annoy me, they go on about just loving music, its all they ever dreamt of, they spent every hour singing into mums hairbrush from 2 yrs old BLAH BLAH BLAH. "i love music sooo much but i'l only do an album if you pay me 20 million and then i'l do a concert and charge 150 quid each for # seats".
If they loved music so much true artists would just be happy to cover their costs and have a few quid left over to pay the rent. When 'artists' stop being greedy i'l stop downloading illegally, when I see taylor swift living in a 2 bedroom semi detached cos she gave all her cash to charity then i'l go buy her album (not that I can stand the women but you see my point)

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I get what you're saying.
BUT, the difference is torrents don't just appear on your browser like a hog running over your lawn. In this case, you are probably out there hunting for a hog...

Not that I'm defending anyone here. The amounts of money going into the pockets of actors, producers, directors, etc. is sickening. I will not earn a tenth of what Brad Pitt is paid for a single movie. And I ask you - does he really do $20 000 000's worth of work in a movie? Even with piracy, movies are now reaching $ 1 billion in gross income... That's more than many countries' GDP. Do I feel sorry for any of the movie makers because they make a couple of million less because of piracy? Not particularly. Same can be said about musicians, TV producers, game producers, Microsoft, etc. Bieber owns 6 cars worth more than $1.2 million. He can't buy afford a seventh car because of piracy. Boohoo.

That being said - I am an artist in my free time, and I often post pictures of my paintings on social media. If someone lifted one of those pictures, printed it and hung it on their walls? Sure it would be my fault for posting a picture of it in the first place. But someone got value and enjoyment from something I created, and I got nothing...

So it's ethical conundrum. Upcoming musicians and indie movie makers don't get the much needed money because of piracy? Fat cats - they don't even feel the effect of piracy - in my opinion. I'm not in that position - so I wouldn't know whether piracy would affect my $200 million net worth. Maybe if I had that kind of money, then I would feel differently.

In the end - as someone else said, resources are poured into stopping "pirates" - a "victimless" crime. Yet rapists, terrorists, murders, bankers and lawyers are walking around with not a worry in the world. Is piracy really a problem in the bigger scheme of problems of the world?

originally posted by: TigStar82
Music artists always annoy me, they go on about just loving music, its all they ever dreamt of, they spent every hour singing into mums hairbrush from 2 yrs old BLAH BLAH BLAH. "i love music sooo much but i'l only do an album if you pay me 20 million and then i'l do a concert and charge 150 quid each for # seats".
If they loved music so much true artists would just be happy to cover their costs and have a few quid left over to pay the rent. When 'artists' stop being greedy i'l stop downloading illegally, when I see taylor swift living in a 2 bedroom semi detached cos she gave all her cash to charity then i'l go buy her album (not that I can stand the women but you see my point)

Many music artists freely admit that music is how they make a very comfortable living (as well as being art). There may be a few entertainers out there who say "I don't care now much money I make", but those people are extremely rare.

I mean, why don't you allow your earnings to be given away, except for enough to cover costs and have a few quid left over to pay your rent? Why do you seem to detest people who, through the entertainment industry, make more money than you? If your boss offered you a 1000% raise (ten times what you are making now), would you let strangers siphon all of that extra money away from you because you are comfortable living how you live now?

Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't (or should) pirate music; that's not my call. However, if you do pirate music, don't bulls**t me by saying you do it because "a true musical artist would give their music away cheaply if they really cared about their art"...

...Just admit that you do it because you simply don't want to pay for it.

a reply to: Gemwolf

Im not a fan of tors. Too much effort put into stealing something...might as well earn the money and pay for it. I can mow a yard for $50 in about 1.5 hours. Not that I would mow a yard now at the age of 45, given that I have a good career and whatnot. But you get the picture.

Im just trying to insert some gray area into this conversation.

originally posted by: interupt42
...

Just think if the greedy power hungry content providers utilized a bittorent site like KAT and charged users $30 month for unlimited monthly access.

30 x 50M = 1.5B a month

of-course many will not pay and jump ship but keep in mind that KAT is just one source.

I think that a successful business model can be made that would be reasonable to the consumer and the content owners.
...

Pretty much what Netflix is doing, only with a bit less content... And it's a huge success... HUGE. Create the same model, but with ALL content?

Anyone care to invest in a start-up company...

originally posted by: TigStar82
...

Music artists always annoy me, they go on about just loving music, its all they ever dreamt of, they spent every hour singing into mums hairbrush from 2 yrs old BLAH BLAH BLAH. "i love music sooo much but i'l only do an album if you pay me 20 million and then i'l do a concert and charge 150 quid each for # seats".
If they loved music so much true artists would just be happy to cover their costs and have a few quid left over to pay the rent. When 'artists' stop being greedy i'l stop downloading illegally, when I see taylor swift living in a 2 bedroom semi detached cos she gave all her cash to charity then i'l go buy her album (not that I can stand the women but you see my point)

Amen's all round for your entire post. But I just wanted to reiterate what you said about musicians - it's so true. MOST pop artists are in it for the money and fame, not the love of music. The Biebers and Wests and Swifts of the industry does nothing for the art form. They should be actually be paying us to listen to the claptrap they call music.

a reply to: Gemwolf

I draw the line at pirating content that is from the sources that I know do not receive anything for the their work.

Artists, independent music labels, indie movie labels etc. I will buy those products outright.

A 20th century Studio film? Nope.

Photoshop? Nope.

My idea is that I have never profited from anything I've pirated. From a purely entertainment standpoint is why I pirate and because the cost of things are just too damn high for what you get out of them.

Video games that are 80$ a pop but yet only last 15 hours. I paid 5$ an hour to play that game, that's a bit much.

But suddenly if it's 80$ and I can get 200 hours of it, then I've paid a significantly lower price for the value I'm receiving, so I will buy that product outright.

It is a moral dilemma, and unfortunately not everybody, hell not even the majority give a damn about that.

~Tenth

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: DerBeobachter
Are there really people that still use torrents???
Idiocy declines never, as it seems.
Thought that crap is dead.

But if idiocy would decline, we never would have so fasntastic laughs about the not so much thinking people on earth, there would be no torrents anymore, no facebook and all that...

I bet half the members on this site use torrents to download stuff..

Not me. I'm the guy that gets the call to clean and remove all "offending" material from your computer when you get busted, and I charge you to do it. I don't get as many calls as I used to though, which is a good thing, because I get no thrills out of scouring and sanitizing other peoples computers. But if I don't, and you run out of ISP's in your area...no more internet for you.

Working in internet security for 20 plus years I'm not worried about anyone coming in my home to do any sanitizing, but then I'm not in the habit of using torrent downloads anyways, but I know of a lot of people out there who use it to download everything.
I have never had any warnings ever sent to me either way to begin with.

originally posted by: Box of Rain

originally posted by: TigStar82
Music artists always annoy me, they go on about just loving music, its all they ever dreamt of, they spent every hour singing into mums hairbrush from 2 yrs old BLAH BLAH BLAH. "i love music sooo much but i'l only do an album if you pay me 20 million and then i'l do a concert and charge 150 quid each for # seats".
If they loved music so much true artists would just be happy to cover their costs and have a few quid left over to pay the rent. When 'artists' stop being greedy i'l stop downloading illegally, when I see taylor swift living in a 2 bedroom semi detached cos she gave all her cash to charity then i'l go buy her album (not that I can stand the women but you see my point)

I mean, why don't you allow your earnings to be given away, except for enough to cover costs and have a few quid left over to pay your rent?

That's exactly how I live my life, I pay my bills mortgage food etc, some goes in my daughters bank some go to cancer and cerebral palsy charities, cancer has taken a few in my family and my daughter has cerebral palsy so yeh I do download torrents as I have more important things for me money to be spent on


I made an extra 30 quid today that was ment for my daughters new school uniform for next term, would like me to go spend it on a fuc king album instead

a reply to: interupt42

However, they have been control and extortion freaks for far to long to let go of that power that can manipulate the market versus catering to what the consumer wants.

There it is. I often feel manipulated myself.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Gemwolf

I draw the line at pirating content that is from the sources that I know do not receive anything for the their work.

Artists, independent music labels, indie movie labels etc. I will buy those products outright.

A 20th century Studio film? Nope.

Photoshop? Nope.

My idea is that I have never profited from anything I've pirated. From a purely entertainment standpoint is why I pirate and because the cost of things are just too damn high for what you get out of them.

Video games that are 80$ a pop but yet only last 15 hours. I paid 5$ an hour to play that game, that's a bit much.

But suddenly if it's 80$ and I can get 200 hours of it, then I've paid a significantly lower price for the value I'm receiving, so I will buy that product outright.

It is a moral dilemma, and unfortunately not everybody, hell not even the majority give a damn about that.

~Tenth

I agree with those reasons, but I have noticed the big labels don't seem to care much and they exploit all unauthorized downloads as a loss so they can write it off. Seems downloaders are actually helping them make a profit, even though they don't care and want to only catch and punish them.

Are you guys serious here? You think torrents are dead and ask who does this anymore? And in the US you to jail for music you did not buy? Wowza. I really hope there is a lot of sarcasm here above lol.

There are people who download 5 movies per week. Their ISP halts service eventually with a warning page popup and an email saying 'naughty.' They call their ISP, apologize, service is reset. Rise repeat.

I see at least one of those people, wink wink is here.

And yes in America. 1.25$ for a song? 25$ for a movie? You kidding me?

They might go after actual uploaders and hosts of said content but that is about it. Just dont profit from your pirating it is very simple.

Using an adblock? Yup. But not on ATS.

VPN? Hell no. That is how you send up a little red flag. Especially not a free VPN. Those report directly to the FBI.

PS. Wait for it to be out of theaters to avoid Chinese subtitles.

originally posted by: imod02
Seems you should always use a VPN and adblocker

Never use your main computer.
get a cheap one. that blocks ever thing!
Pay some one near for His Wifi.
and have him run it open.
so ANY one can use it free.
he can just say he did not know what he did to the setings.
and you can use his wifi.
they can not track you! some one you can trust!
or just offer to fix it or comp for him.

oh and put a small thermite bomb on the hard drive and ram,
with a panic switch dont forget fire insurance!

a reply to: Gemwolf

Pretty sure it isn't the file sharing pirates that bother Big Media. It's the sh*tleeches who make money from their uploads that bother them. It's the ad revenue that these torrent sites bring in, and yes, the illegal income of the owners of said sites.

Pirates can and will justify their downloads in every possible way. Seen it right here in the thread. The sad truth of the matter is that no one will care at all...until it happens to them. Seen that happen all too often as well. Do or do not, but don't fool yourself that your download doesn't effect someone else.

I just wonder how public libraries get on.

Over my life time, I have borrowed thousands of books.

Those I liked, I bought, together with the rest of the series.

Libraries lend books to anyone. They also lend out music and movies.

I can lend my copy to anyone .... It is mine.

The system is broken and it was broken by the big movers in the industry. Their wet dream is to get paid every time you watch, listen or read something.

P

I never understood this torrent stuff.

First of all, Piracy is Profiting from other people's work without the rights to do so. So, if you copy some copyrighted material, and sell it without permission, that's Piracy. This is bad. And we should all be against this.

Say you duplicate some movie DVD, and make discs, package them, and sell them on eBay. That's piracy. People have actually done this. It's clearly wrong. No ambiguity there.

But, downloading things from the Internet is a whole other matter entirely.

First of all, nobody knows what they are downloading until they got the data onto their disc.

Many "fake" files exist, and you think you're downloading some pdf book that's been put in .rar form, and after the file is downloaded, you unpack it, only to find it's some "porn clip" that somebody disguised with a book title.

This happens all over the place. The title doesn't guarantee that your downloaded data has any relationship to the subject you think you're getting.

Since there's no way to know what the data actually is, before you actually get that data, the act of downloading itself cannot be illegal.

That's the first point.

Now, say you download some data, and find it's a movie.

Is it a free film, or a copyright flick?

In order to know what it is, you've got to look at the film.

After you've thoroughly examined the movie, and convinced yourself that it's copyrighted material, you then "delete" the copyrighted material from your hard disc, to be in compliance.

So, all your steps are legal. Downloading is legal, because data is unknowable until it is in hand. And viewing data is legal, because you must do so in order to determine what is in the content of that data. Then, once you get rid of anything that is claimed to be copyrighted that you didn't pay for, you're fine.

So, I can't see what legal arguments are being used to prosecute the people who download.

When it comes to operating torrent sites, that's just a search engine that maintains an index to content. There's no copyrighted content on any of those sites. These sites do exactly what google.com does. Provide an easy way to find various files around the web.

So, if they can prosecute the torrent sites, they must be able to prosecute google, for aiding and abetting.

All I see is "selective enforcement".

originally posted by: Orionx2
So Apple won't help the FBI crack a murders/terrorist phone (No profit in that) but have no problem going after this guy (Losing profit). It is entirely acceptable to take someone's computer and search it for cracked stuff but it isn't okay to search a terrorists phone.

originally posted by: Gemwolf
Bingo! It all boils down to money for the mighty Apple...

Apparently so, sad but true.

originally posted by: imod02
After reading this I remembered reading this.
www.briandunning.com...

I'm not sure how that's related but I remember reading the wiki on him saying he was a convicted felon which didn't make sense since he didn't seem like the criminal type, but now after reading that I understand his side of the story, and what a story!

Also, what an abuse of power by the authorities!!