POLITICS: Global Poll: Planet More Dangerous With Bush Re-Election

Is not doubt about it, the world is dangerous indeed, Bush already has started the destabilization of the middle east with the breeding of more martyrs to their cause against of the infidels from the west.

He has underestimated the will of the ancient people of the deserts, and he opened pandora box for more hate against Americans and anybody that agree with America.

[edit on 19-1-2005 by marg6043]

Well, being consistent with the census taker, perhaps the question could also be phrased as "Do you think the Wrold is a more dangerous place with America's foregin policy continuing as a result of the election ?"

MeThinks this is what is really bugging the sampled people. Continuing the foreign policy without obvious change in favour of a less confrontational approach of death by guns and bombs and airships. Only if there was a faster and more concrete result which the American foreign policy can point towards. 6 more got blown up by a car bomb yesterday. With Saddam, most of us never got to hear about the daily murders and torture. Now, each day is a body count, with prisoner torture being the forefront.

What needs to be remembered is that this is a survey on opinions. I can accept that an opinion is not necessarily fact. So, it may not necessarily be true that the World is a more dangerous places as a result of the election.

But what this certainly points towards is that the probability of finding further support from other nations is greatly diminished, to a point even lower than before the elections. If it is not already lonely, it will get lonelier.

There will be some who will say they don't give a damn about world opinion. You can only continue alone for only so long. You were made from two, not one ALONE

Originally posted by Simulacra
Who cares what the world thinks about our president? We elected him, not the globe. That's what makes America so great, we just could care less about global opinion. If we were subservient to every country, the we would no longer be the worlds leading superpower.

You probably will be subservient in the future if you don't watch out.

4 experts say: The American economy is doomed!


[edit on 19-1-2005 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams


I hate to break it to you guys, but this poll is pretty meaningless.

1) Many of the countries in this poll have uniformly socialist/communist media... or media that is otherwise controlled by the local government.

So you're saying that France, Germany, UK for example have uniformly socialist media. Right? I'm not talking about China or Russia though, there it's clear what kind of media they have. Do you think if they also polled the countries that rank the best in the world what religious freedom is concerned. (Mainly European countries) That the tide would turn in Bush's favor???

www.rsf.fr...


Out of the list, Germany and France have the most press freedom. Even more than the United States. IMO they should've polled much more countries with more press freedom than the rest of those on the list there.


Here's the press freedom ranking of the countries in question.

Turkey 113
Germany 11
France 19
UK 28
Lebanon 87
Mexico 96
China 162
Russia 140
Philipines 111
India 120

3)The opinion of the US population is what matters. Many of the nations in this poll are competitors of the US. To be frank, you could spin this poll to show that Bush was doing a good job... after all, no one wants their competition to be led well. The results of this poll do not reflect on the objective performance of Bush... they reflect on the fact that many people around the world know that America will remain untouchable and supreme under Bush.

That's nonsense. If Bush was really doing a good job, don't you think other countries would see that as well?

4)Many of the people who took this poll would probably be happier with a weak american president. It would be easier to defeat the US with someone other than Bush as president, after all.

That's a total unbased generalisation.

Umm Marg,
I believe that there were plenty of martyrs BEFORE Bush got here...please note the many suicide attacks already committed, not to mention 9-11...can you or anyone really say there are more martyrs?
Has there been a martyr census? There was PLENTY of hate of the west, and the rhetoric and deeds before Bush to not realize they were there for some time in UNKNOWN #'s
While i MIGHT agree that some may have signed up, Im also going to say that some might have been deterred by knowing the USA will now be hunting them, as well as knowing that their actions could bring down misery on those they expouse to sympathise with. Others stand with us to hunt them.....fewer places will be safe for those of like minds.

Id like to rephrase this for marg,

He has underestimated the will of the ancient people of the deserts, and he opened pandora box for more hate against Americans and anybody that agree with America.

THEY have underestimated the will of America, and have opened the pandora's box for MORE actions against terrorists and those that agree with tyranny.

Dont sell out to lawless bandit thugs that use terror, intimidation and cowardly tactics to break your will for justice, liberty and democracy.
I know its hard Marg, but try and be positive.

Dixon,
Sometimes its lonley at the top. Leaders often walk the long and lonley road, instead of seeking a quick fix.

TheBandit asks,

If Bush was really doing a good job, don't you think other countries would see that as well?

Not nessisarily...people usually hear more "you screwed up" than they do "nice job" in their lives...when things are good, its often overlooked, when times are tough....the wails of lament are heard.
Whats new there?

[edit on 19-1-2005 by CazMedia]

Well things are looking to become awfully though in the future for us all.

Caz I hope you are right, but as I sad for almost seven hours with a long time friend from Europe, she refers to the Arabs as moors due to the hate of the European community to them and the invasions they did in Europe they left a long lasting influence in many European cultures, and they has settler through the years all over the world.

She looked at me and said,"you know, US has not Idea what has gotten itself into" and we talk about the history of them and what these desert people will do.

They will never Caz, never give up.

And if for some reason they get wipe out of the middle east, they had spread their blood and influence all over the world, they are in every country and in every city, they live among us, and they will never let their ancient roots to die.

The last think my friend said as we were looking at the pictures she took from her country and also my country of origin, is that the moors "will take over one day or another" because that is their whole mission.

Just like Christianity took over the new world when it was been colonized.

This is from a friend that came directly from an older country that has seen their williness first hand.

Marg says what im sure many have said thru time before, including the terrorist islamic extremists,

They will never Caz, never give up.

Believe this or not...GOOD...i dont blame them for not giving up!
I wouldnt give up either, nor will the USA.

In fact i PITTY them...
Its like a modern version of cowboys and indians (native Americans) going on....Their culture and beliefs and lifestyle is no longer compatible with a changing, more interconnected, globalized, and homogenized ideology that is the modern multicultural environment.

Either they can adapt, or things (not just America) will essentially destroy them one way or the other. I dont feel they must give up their rights to have their ideology, or even a place to be and live like they wish
UNLESS,
they continue to do things to destabalize, terrorize, and threaten not just the "machine" of this "globalizaion" of mankind (meaning armies or things of the machine like equipment and such) but they threaten innocent people with random acts of horrific proportion....now a days one nut with a WMD can kill millions.

This isnt the same as trying to wage a war in some kind of openly declared, organized (as much as war can be) manner where you stand with honor and identify yourself for all to see, without taking too many acts that risk more innocents than you can possibly avoid by being at war.

To me its not about their god or their ideology EXCEPT that they advocate hidden violence and refuse compromise. I dont want the USA to have to go and war on anyone,
BUT,
its NEVER to be taken off the table as an option. Without the ultimate threat, how can anything be enforced, a treaty, peacful coexistance, trade, etc etc.

We wear uniforms, saying who we are...people the world over know or should by now that when they see our millitary, we wont just massacre in bloodlust, we will accept an honorable surrender and not just brutalize and murder those declairing themselves no longer combatants.
(Abu Graib is an ISOLATED, tragic accident, not our goal/ideal)

The terrorists and their ideology do not stand in such a fashion, they use cowardly tactics....chopping off the heads of their "prisioners"...
But again, while i dont approve, i understand why....
What else can they do to fight the USA, to try and resist the modern world essentially burrying their ideology.
Again i pitty them, and i am not happy that this is occuring or that WE must take the hard road here.

But this situation has been brewing for as you say THOUSANDS of years...
your right, their ideology requires that western ideals are eliminated.
But it CAN end
how is up to them....
cease this conflict...try to adapt and get some accomodations from this new world....
or
continue to resist...this is a plan with only one end....their deaths.
IF we REALLY wanted to, we could resort back to time tested ways
and just wipe out anyone that didnt surrender immediatly to superior forces of destruction until there was no one left to resist, or until their WILL to resist was crushed.
This is not our way howewer, which is why our troops are put into MORE danger than just using our advantages would subject us to...

They can keep trying to fufill their mission to take over,
but freedom loving people upholding democracy WILL triumph
hopefully it wont mean ERASING them from the globe to reach an outcome,
but thats up to them.

Again i dont envy their position in the "pecking order" of life on the planet,
but
Ill stand on the side of the USA, even if its tough to do, popular or not.

Very nice words Caz, sometimes I wonder how the Middle East would be if oil has never been discovered in their lands.

Do you think they may have been prosperous and more given to democracy, or they would have become the forgotten nations that nobody care, because nothing productive would have come from them to give interest to capitalism.

I wonder how it would be if they have never found oil.

If it were not for oil the middle east would be just like sub-saharan africa right now.

Originally posted by mwm1331
If it were not for oil the middle east would be just like sub-saharan africa right now.

Even without oil, America was never like sub-Saharan Africa. That day might be ooming, but it will have nothing to do with the presence of, or the lack of access to, natural resources.

Originally posted by mwm1331
favor forced diversty over freedom of thought,

mwm1331 - I am interested in this statement. I am wondering how forced diversity could/would be implemented. If I had to ponder this myself, I would say that the existence of many different options in an of itself could be construed as forced diversity. Could you expand?

Originally posted by CazMedia

In fact i PITTY them...
Its like a modern version of cowboys and indians (native Americans) going on....Their culture and beliefs and lifestyle is no longer compatible with a changing, more interconnected, globalized, and homogenized ideology that is the modern multicultural environment.

Either they can adapt, or things (not just America) will essentially destroy them one way or the other.

a little off topic for a moment here:

You are kidding me right??


Comparing them to Native Americans? Native Americans couldn't adapt, so they had to be destroyed? Is that what you're saying? Who owned the land first??

From a UK perspective the poll would generally concur with views i encounter now and then.

To be honest most here seem to be tarring every Arab with the same brush. Not every Arab is trying to destroy the US, just a few and there's plenty of non-Arabs trying to do the same, and most Arabic countries aren't refusing the western way of life, they're slowing moving to our standards, just don't push and they'll get around to the western way of think.

Who says the western way of thinking is the best for them? Right now it seems to me that the western way of thinking might be the downfall of humanity.

TheBandit questions,

Native Americans couldn't adapt, so they had to be destroyed? Is that what you're saying?

NO, i never said they HAD to be destroyed, mearly that they were.
In similar fashions, a changing world, where a more "advanced" culture and mind set was overwhelming a "lesser" culture thru many forms both physically and ideoligically, both native Americans and fundamentalist Islamisists are suffering from a cultural squeeze brought on by the "demands" of the worlds predominant cultural ideologies and needs.

This is not meant to judge anyone, but only as a statement of an anthopological assesment of the situations.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by mwm1331
If it were not for oil the middle east would be just like sub-saharan africa right now.

Even without oil, America was never like sub-Saharan Africa. That day might be ooming, but it will have nothing to do with the presence of, or the lack of access to, natural resources.

Uhhh Grady I was saying that if it had not been for the discovery of oil The Middle east would be like sun saharan africa right now not the US.
Basically that if oil had not been discovered it would be one of the poorest regions in the world.
What made you think I was referring to the US?

Originally posted by MemoryShock


mwm1331 - I am interested in this statement. I am wondering how forced diversity could/would be implemented. If I had to ponder this myself, I would say that the existence of many different options in an of itself could be construed as forced diversity. Could you expand?

Well basicaly the EU is trying to force people to be tolerant by attempting to control thought.
For exmple the current soccer controversy going on in reference to the racist statements beng made by spanish fans. Now whle I find racism repugnant, It is my belief that people have every right to be racist if they choose. Its only when you take action based on that racism it becmes a problem. nd no I don't think chanting or calling someone a racial slur is takng action. The EU wide ban on swasticas which s being considered is also in my opinion a form of thought police. The Nazi's are, and were, idiotic wastes of sperm in my opinion but I also believe you have the right to admire hitler if you choose. The refusal to accept italy's first EU cabinet because one member was a christian who thought homosexuality is a sin is IMHO another example. Like I have said many times freedom of speech means people have the right to be an asshole. However from my point of view it seems as if EU legislation is trending more towards forced politeness at the cost of those basic freedoms

[edit on 20-1-2005 by mwm1331]

Originally posted by TheBandit795
You probably will be subservient in the future if you don't watch out.

4 experts say: The American economy is doomed!

America will never be subservient of any other country for as long as we have an organized and stable government. Also, just because 4 'experts' claim that our economy is doomed doesn’t necessarily mean that its doomed.

Tell that to the ever increasing debt and the ever dwindling dollar. And the fact that more and more stuff is being produced outside of the United States and being sold to the United States. Wall-Mart is a prime example of that.