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Medieval Blacks & Racism

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posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Madame, when you write things like this:




Do you not feel that the blacks of today currently protesting chanting and spewing hatred should take charge of their lives, live up to some of their superb role models, improve their lot themselves and stop the blame game/victimhood? Do you not think that these actions hold them back severely?


How do you expect someone to take you seriously?

I am one of the "blacks of today" that you are talking about, and I am the opposite of those stereotypes you just tossed out there. And its frustrating to constantly see or hear people with no understanding or empathy making these gross blanket statements about me and other black people who do not fall into your stereotype shaped world view.

You want to talk about being "hurt"? Try walking in the shoes of men and women who are being told every which way that they are lazy, they always play victim, they don't work hard, they are violent, etc etc. After some point, the people who this doesn't apply to get SICK of the rhetoric.

You are no different than Bill O'Reilly saying that all black youth are uneducated and have tattoos on their forehead.
edit on 21-7-2016 by supremecommander because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Don't know where you're based but yup here in the Uk bussing was routine and said to be to encourage diversity in the classroom but to be fair it was mainly Pakistanis and Indians that seemed to bussed around. I believe the intention at that time was to ensure that the Pakistani and Indian migrants learned English and "fit in". When bussing was stopped, schools in my area certainly in Bradford became almost entirely black/brown and quite often the children who spoke their language at home to their parents, didn't learn English at school either because they were in classes with many that spoke their own native tongue. It was a problem

I am seriously not sure who is pulling the strings but from everything I've read, someone somewhere wants these younger generations to dance and like I said earlier its very wrong. No-one is given the chance now of moving on moving forward progressing, we seem to be going backwards in almost every aspect especially with some people calling for segregation. That would be just plain awful and so detrimental to peace harmony and life generally



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: supremecommander

Ok I am happy that you are of a generation that does not feel the peer pressure to conform to the current stereotype but that current view is one that has been created by the younger blacks over the last couple of years. This is the media pushing such stereotypes but the students for example protesting in Missouri or making up threats that aren't real, are the ones continuing it. Surely you can agree that is correct? There is a reason for this I am sure but what it is I don't know..perhaps you have a theory why some want to undo all the progress and hard work that has been done over the last 30+ years? Why do the PTB want or even need to keep the black people of America down and encourage such racism? What is the reasoning behind some black people calling successful blacks sell outs?

I have never said "all" never would. The picture being pushed at this moment in time is that young blacks want war young blacks want divisions & segregation. We only have news and internet for our information for those of us not in the thick of it. Mistakes are made and we can never not ever be sure what we are told or what we read is the whole picture.

I am not slagging off anyone, I am trying to point out facts that have been distorted over time and where the white supremacist thinking by blacks has come from and how it can be removed

(BTW I'm from Zimbabwe originally and I'm 56yr old woman and have been until disability rather successful myself...we don't here in the UK seem to have the same outlook as over in the States)



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Wow. That sure would create problems. At least in our school, everyone spoke the same language. I grew up in Southern California. Our school was already so multi-race that the joke was to ask if they were going to bus White kids into our school for the proper ratios. Whites were probably the majority of any single race, but I'm pretty sure the other races combined outnumbered Whites. It pretty much showed me the folly of their efforts. I think because we did not know the racism inherent in the southern states for example, because the races were already "desegregated," we saw how many of those laws just created problems that didn't exist before. Many laws were racist in and of themselves.

There is definitely a deliberate and coordinated effort to make them "dance" -- I usually think of it as dumbing down the masses and keep us all dependent on the someone/something. I personally think the PTB can't wait for us old folks to die off... we know better... which is why they have to break up the families and turn kids against their parents (which also goes on far too much in schools... or perhaps indoctrination centers is now the best word for that!)



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Ok going to your links which I've now had time to read. The loss of black towns....to be fair I can say exactly the same about the loss of white towns here in England due to closure of mining pits dockyards etc thousands of working class were displaced and reduced to poverty. If these towns had continued I doubt they would still be just black. The same goes for the Sundown towns. However I quite agree that such actions and the many more you referred me to were very very wrong but one of my points is that however these horrors affected past generations or even some later generations that may be alive today, they are not the ones protesting nor calling to kill all whites. Somewhere someone has incited this for a reason.

I still haven't got to grips with the absolute root cause of the seriously severe racism of white Americans in those early days. Whilst i have touched on the white supremacists illusion fed to the black slaves which clearly would have caused psychological problems, what possible reason did the white people of the time have to hate with such ferociousness the freed black slaves? I understand the Jib Crow Laws of the South, and that they were no doubt introduced out of anger at the freedom given to their "property" but this hatred although stronger in the south didn't just stay there.

I believe I understand that as the older generations have died off, perhaps the younger generations want to keep their history of slavery alive a bit like the Jews and the holocaust, however, it is done and it is in the past, and no amount of protesting etc will change that. We've come a long way from those days thankfully but the mentality behind self-segregation is worrying not least of all because many of the black communities are even racist to themselves! Which is something I wasn't actually aware of.

I have no answer and its not my place but I hope that sooner or later history will be re written yet again to show a different side to the pre conception of black people generally



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

The bussing did actually work and it was a shame it was later seen as racist. As a result schools had to put up signs in 4 different languages, they had to have interpreters in classrooms and the rare white child was bamboozled by half a dozen different languages and because of the language problem lagged well behind many similar aged white children.When the classes were forced to be mixed as during the bussing scenario, the children learned the language and had the same educational opportunities as everyone else which later became almost imppossible due to language difficulties, which meant immigrant children often left school unable to read & write



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 09:38 AM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: supremecommander

Why do the PTB want or even need to keep the black people of America down and encourage such racism? What is the reasoning behind some black people calling successful blacks sell outs?


I am not slagging off anyone, I am trying to point out facts that have been distorted over time and where the white supremacist thinking by blacks has come from and how it can be removed)


Are you really asking these questions for an answer or are you just asking in order to get people to think? Because, I think the answers are already quite obvious. You shown yourself what black people are capable of accomplishing in society, why wouldn't the powers that be want to hold black people, (and ANY people) down? The white supremacist thinking comes from the same people who hide this history and who create conflict in order to divide people...white people and black people have fallen for it. I didn't think this was complicated to figure out.

EDIT TO ADD: I appreciate you bringing this history to light by the way, it's an area I have researched as well. Not many people are aware and still some remain skeptical of the truth because of that ingrained thinking of white supremacy.

edit on 21-7-2016 by soulrebel11 because: (no reason given)[/editby
edit on 21-7-2016 by soulrebel11 because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: soulrebel11

It isn't complicated if that was the reason but I find it hard to believe that is the real reason particularly when America has a black President and such a huge successful black presence in most walks of life. It feels not quite right that someone wants to hold back the younger generation of blacks simply to stop them achieving when clearly others have achieved so much but not only that, cause such hatred and division within themselves. So yes I suppose it should get people thinking too

White supremacy is ingrained thinking you're correct. It seems throughout history there has actually never been such a thing and in fact multi nations were the order of the day for hundreds if not thousands of years. When a black slave has a white master he is totally reliant upon and only taught to read the bible where the Saviour is painted White when we all know he couldn't have been, then a shift occurs and associations happen namely that all white people are superior
edit on 21-7-2016 by PhyllidaDavenport because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Boadicea

Ok going to your links which I've now had time to read. The loss of black towns....to be fair I can say exactly the same about the loss of white towns here in England due to closure of mining pits dockyards etc thousands of working class were displaced and reduced to poverty.


The main difference to me is that many of these towns weren't just shut down or died off; the people were brutally raped, beaten and slaughtered.


If these towns had continued I doubt they would still be just black. The same goes for the Sundown towns.


I would agree. If folks had been allowed to live and move about freely, the races would have naturally come together and worked and played and worshipped and loved together. If that had happened, if the redlining and Sundown towns had not been coded into law, there would have been no need for de-segregating the schools as well. It was an artificial divide... divide-and-conquer!


However I quite agree that such actions and the many more you referred me to were very very wrong but one of my points is that however these horrors affected past generations or even some later generations that may be alive today, they are not the ones protesting nor calling to kill all whites. Somewhere someone has incited this for a reason.


I totally agree! I have no doubt all of the "reforms" were meant to incite further strife and division. I knew many Blacks who resented many of the affirmative action laws... they didn't want special treatment, they just wanted what was fair and right. They knew that anything they achieved would be minimized because they got special treatment. (And they were right.) They didn't want Jim Crow laws which forced business owners to discriminate replaced with laws that forced them not to... they just wanted the same opportunities and equal protection of the law just like everyone else. We didn't have Jim Crow laws, so for us, they were just taking away freedom -- not replacing anything.

Today, especially kids have been conditioned to think that they just can't get equal treatment... White people are all so racist and mean and nasty... they've been led to believe that they NEED government to take care of them. And of course all us old folks just don't know or understand because, so kids -- as they are wont to do anyway -- are quick to rebel and reject whatever sound advice their parents and grandparents try to give them. Especially when someone else is telling them exactly what they want to hear.


I still haven't got to grips with the absolute root cause of the seriously severe racism of white Americans in those early days. Whilst i have touched on the white supremacists illusion fed to the black slaves which clearly would have caused psychological problems, what possible reason did the white people of the time have to hate with such ferociousness the freed black slaves? I understand the Jib Crow Laws of the South, and that they were no doubt introduced out of anger at the freedom given to their "property" but this hatred although stronger in the south didn't just stay there.


You and me both. But I don't understand the hatred so many people have for any label. Maybe if I did understand, I could better understand how to address it. At this point, I just have to dismiss it as ego... "I'm better than you." Some people need to look down on others in order to feel good about themselves.


I believe I understand that as the older generations have died off, perhaps the younger generations want to keep their history of slavery alive a bit like the Jews and the holocaust...


Or someone else wants to for all the wrong reasons... if they're focused on the sins of slavery, rather than Jim Crow laws and redling, etc., then they won't understand the ways laws and regulations are used to benefit some at the expense of many, and won't recognize it happening to them again -- just tweaked and twerked for today's purposes. (And for that matter, Whites are likewise kept focused on what these Black kids are screaming about, and they don't recognize it either. We're fighting phantoms while the PTB are fighting freedom and liberty for all...).


...however, it is done and it is in the past, and no amount of protesting etc will change that. We've come a long way from those days thankfully...


And THAT'S ^^^ exactly what the PTB don't want any of us to realize. We could -- and would -- get along just fine if given the chance.


I have no answer and its not my place but I hope that sooner or later history will be re written yet again to show a different side to the pre conception of black people generally


From your lips to God's ears.



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 10:18 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

You're right about the belief thing...how can you combat a belief system? Its a bit like the current situation with ISIS its not just about the killing and bombing its the actual ideology. I say again as I've always said you cannot legislate against or for a belief system. Anger grew as you say when white shop keepers and the like were forced to accommodate blacks...they were the ones that felt marginalised and the blacks felt singled out. Never a good mix



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Boadicea

You're right about the belief thing...how can you combat a belief system? Its a bit like the current situation with ISIS its not just about the killing and bombing its the actual ideology. I say again as I've always said you cannot legislate against or for a belief system. Anger grew as you say when white shop keepers and the like were forced to accommodate blacks...they were the ones that felt marginalised and the blacks felt singled out. Never a good mix


Well said!!!

It's impossible to fight opinions... there is no right and wrong because it's all about feelings and beliefs... so it becomes an eternal battle with no end in sight.



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 10:57 AM
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Thread closed for staff review



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14
OK, so my theory evidently breaks down on the ground. Back to the drawing-board.



No worries. Hypothesizing is part of learning.



posted on Jul, 21 2016 @ 10:19 PM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Thanks for that. I admit I had no idea regarding latin America


Yup. I studied Latin American history and human rights in Guatemala, and then worked on a development project in the Dominican Republic. This doesn't include my simple travels through various LA countries.

In Latin America racism is alive and well. People of darker skin tone, especially much darker such as African-American looking, are usually disparaged in most countries. Also, people of purer Native descent also suffer often from serious prejudice. Light skin is prized. For many families, it is considered "marrying up" to marry a lighter skinned person.

This is very general, I know, and obviously there is variation amongst countries and sub-cultures.



posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Hmmm I might have to look into if this happens or has ever happened with regard to caucasians and other races



posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
For comparison, try reading up on the caste system of India.



posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Oh yeah forgot about those I do know quite a bit about that system but again its brown/black people and caste system isn't based on skin colour but is a class system a bit like us in the UK with upper middle and lowerm the difference being the lower caste cannot "escape" their fate nor can their descendants. In this regard, it is said that in many ways this caste system is worse than the slave trade, as these people are trapped in servitude and poverty for life as are their children & grandchildren. They can't be "rescued" they can't marry outside the caste, they are slaves to the Brahmin and other higher classes for eternity.

As yet I can only find information on white v white regarding religion not shades of white or type of "white" and I'm getting the impression that such racism wouldn't be possible based on skin colour alone as there don't really appear to be "shades" of white


edit on 22-7-2016 by PhyllidaDavenport because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Kandinsky

Could well be yup however it should be noted that it is allowed to echo and linger

As I said in another post, my ancestors were pillaged and taken to Rome..should I now be pursuing the Italian Government for reparations?

Let it go...be the best possible person you can be and let others see that


I was actually with you for most of your OP as it seemed mostly historical in nature. The abolition of slavery in the U.S. occurred less than 200 years ago whereas your ancestors plight occured at least a millenia and a half ago. Do you honestly believe that racism hadn't been carefully institutionalized throughout the American south in the decades and decades following the American Civil War? While the VRA and other civil rights legislation were a great start the legacy still lives on. There's a reason that the majority of black people in the U.S. are poor and btw poverty(especially inner city poverty breeds crime like rabbits). While many in recent decades may have had no overt racist motivation and were possibly entirely driven by good will the problem of institutionalized racism still exists. One example is the so called war on drugs and the disproportionate punishment of black males vs that of white males who have committed the same or more serious crime. This problem is generational and did in fact start with the forced enslavement of African people in the United States. It was followed up with lynchings and the Jim Crow era. Thats just one example.

To the point of your OP though, yes human beings have been enslaving and torturing other human beings for thousands of years. Yes there were nobility of African decent in Europe. Yes many African royals were involved in the enslavement of their neighbors.

However the brutality and disgusting nature of slavery was noted far earlier in Europe (relatively speaking) and anti-black racism in Europe has far different roots and causes than the racism of America. Again I should also point out that slavery is a relatively recent phenomenon in the U.S. and it's not exactly like everything was flowers and unicorns after Sherman's march. Their is a recent legacy in America. Many believe that the KGC morphed into the KKK, an organization with quite a bit of power and political clout in the south from their 19th century formation right up until the 1960s and 1970s.

The answer is socioeconomic reforms such as: welfare reform that includes job training, trade reform(protective tariff for example, reform NAFTA, NO TTIP, etc) along with the reform of the fed(100yr interest free 1-2-3 trillion dollar loan payed for by 1 percent Wallstreet sales tax), use the fed loan for shovel ready infrastructure projects and loans to be passed onto manufacturers to bring industry back to America. Cut government waste, especially with military contractors, stop letting lockheed, NG, GA, et al. leech off the American taxpayers. Improve urban education by hiring more qualified teachers and allowing more private charter schools to compete for reasonable government vouchers.

That will all help the problem. Those are also just very, very broad suggestions for change without any obvious details. They are, IMO however, a good place to begin.

Oh yeah train the police to not think that they are in some sort of hidden war with the public. Train them to properly handle their weapons and on how to de-escalate a situation without shooting someone up. De-militarize them, in a small city there really is no need for a couple of MRAVS for example. Try true community policing for a change(ya know serve ones community).

Again all very vague and while most of white America, like myself, has nothing against anyone in general (at least I'd like to think so) the deck has been rigged for such a long time that can, alot of times, understand the anger.



posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: s3cz0ne

Thank you for your input which I will research a bit more into at leisure

It is indeed the institutionalised racism that concerns me and why it is so much more prevalent in the USA and continuing, the motives behind it and what measures could be taken to stop it or to make sure blacks stop it themselves. However, after being informed by a number of posters (and on another thread) it seems the racism amongst blacks towards other blacks is also a large problem and until that issue is resolved I'm not sure there is an actual way forward.

In one post it was mentioned briefly about making certain sectors of the community "special" with laws & legislation etc giving them more than not equal to the majority people. This in itself causes problems, resentment and anger. When one group is singled out for special treatment and not another whilst similar problems exist in other groups, those other groups will start to react to the special ones. Its a cycle we shouldn't get into, as we have seen the issues first hand when one group reigns supreme above others or feels that they do.

I fear your policing tactics are very very wrong and training is clearly not up to scratch, but this again is a double edge sword as I've seen here in the UK whereby police are scared to arrest asians in particular for fear of the racist tag and the enquiries that result, which means the Asians feel special and basically have carte blanche to do as they please and sorry to say in many areas they have done just that. They know they are protected.

Tricky all round



posted on Jul, 22 2016 @ 09:33 PM
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originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Thank you for your input which I will research a bit more into at leisure

It is indeed the institutionalised racism that concerns me and why it is so much more prevalent in the USA and continuing, the motives behind it and what measures could be taken to stop it or to make sure blacks stop it themselves. However, after being informed by a number of posters (and on another thread) it seems the racism amongst blacks towards other blacks is also a large problem and until that issue is resolved I'm not sure there is an actual way forward.

In one post it was mentioned briefly about making certain sectors of the community "special" with laws & legislation etc giving them more than not equal to the majority people. This in itself causes problems, resentment and anger. When one group is singled out for special treatment and not another whilst similar problems exist in other groups, those other groups will start to react to the special ones. Its a cycle we shouldn't get into, as we have seen the issues first hand when one group reigns supreme above others or feels that they do.

I fear your policing tactics are very very wrong and training is clearly not up to scratch, but this again is a double edge sword as I've seen here in the UK whereby police are scared to arrest asians in particular for fear of the racist tag and the enquiries that result, which means the Asians feel special and basically have carte blanche to do as they please and sorry to say in many areas they have done just that. They know they are protected.

Tricky all round


Yes, institutionalized racism is a problem in the United States. Hell, in any given state there might be an extremely prejudicial or down right stupid law still on the books. For example, while entirely unrelated to this post, there are still laws forbidding consentual sodomy in certain states and counties therein. Whether its heterosexual or homosexual contact. I'm not saying that's my thing but it is certainly an example of legislating "morality" and it has often been put forward andpassed by the right. The same right that claims to champion personal liberty and smaller government. Two things that I generally support as a strange combination of a socioeconomic liberal and personal rights libertarian.

Also, I have read academic studies in which black people are asked about rates of racism and upwards of %80-85 of respondents said that they believed black people to be far more racist than white people. And no, this did not come from stormfront or any similar organization. I believe I actually heard about one of these "polls" on NPR. If and when I have more time I may try to post some links.

As to "Special" policing areas; it's BS IMO. What we need is better community based policing. While to some this may seem preferential, my thought is that police departments hire as many qualified candidates as possible from the communities that they are responsible for policing. Also outreach programs should be taken up by resource officers at the elementary, middle and high school level to engage with students and perhaps encourage them to serve and work in their own communities. Many of these school resource officers actually don't do all that much throughout the day in my own experience. If what I've witnessed personally seems to be true generally than we need far more engagement by these school resource officers.

While I'm well aware that your reference to "your policing tactics" was not a jab at myself personally I still need to point out that they are tactics that I approve of in no way. That being said, I agree. Policing tactics in the United States have been totally FUBAR'D... Sadly. I remember reading a news story not too long ago that told the tale of how two London (?) officers were able to restrain a man that was threatening them with a knife, and IIRC, may have approached them with it. In the US he would have been dead 10x over. These officers were trained well enough to de-escalate and restrain that everyone walked away alive and unharmed. Kind of like that group of European police officers on vacation in NYC that restrained a guy a few years ago. IDR if he had a weapon ornot though. I think the vacationing cops might have been from Sweden but my memory is a bit broken lately for some reason....



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