Did God Abandon Us?

a reply to: daskakik

Yes, the difference is obvious, isn't it? The connection is an emotion. What you are talking about is to experience different dimension, which may or may not exist, visualise things no one but you can see...

I mean sun rays on my skin, the feeling of being alive are hardly imaginations.

a reply to: Jay-morris

What did you say about cherry picking? Whats that your doing cherry dicking?

a reply to: Peeple

Can you feel the sun rays hitting the opposite hemisphere of where you are?

I know I can't, so to me, connected to everything is either describing something else or you are just using it as a figure of speech.

Dang, that's what my grandkids said.

Whatever the nature of a god, trans-dimensional, a wondrous spirit connected to the consciousness of the universe, a supreme leader of faith, possibly.
And notwithstanding whether he makes terrorists in his own image, I say no excuses.
Let's just call it:
1. There is a god, and he takes no responsibility and looks the other way when bad things happen.
2. There is no god
Either way, why worship either of those?

One day, out among the stars, we will meet the real Creators, the Guardians of the universe, and a lot of people are going to feel very silly.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Jay-morris

What did you say about cherry picking? Whats that your doing cherry dicking?

Please explain, and i will answer your question

a reply to: daskakik

Haha. Ahem I am pretty sure if I sit in the sun the opposite hemisphere is having night. A figure of speech to describe the absence of sunrays.

You're funny, trying to prove how gullible everyone who says they believe in God is and then whom "I get screwed by my own brain and love it".
It's totally fine, whatever maybe you really have an ability I lack and really can leave your body. Wtf do I know?
Did you ever experience anything applicable? Learn anything from it?
Because me feeling connected with the force aka gawd told me not to take me so important and to not be a dick. Something your OBE obviously didn't. So I wonder has it ever taught you anything? At all?

a reply to: Moley

3. People have free will and god is neither good or bad.

The last sentence is a joke? If there were guardians of the universe where were they?

originally posted by: Peeple
Haha. Ahem I am pretty sure if I sit in the sun the opposite hemisphere is having night. A figure of speech to describe the absence of sunrays.

But you are not there and unless you go there you won't feel them. A figure of speech to describe interconnectedness.

You're funny, trying to prove how gullible everyone who says they believe in God is and then whom "I get screwed by own brain and love it".

I never said anyone was gullible for believing in god.

It's totally fine, whatever maybe you really have an ability I lack and really can leave your body. Wtf do I know?
Did you ever experience anything applicable? Learn anything from it?

Life is just a mmorpg.

Because me feeling connected with the force aka gawd told me not to take me so important and to not be a dick. Something your OBE obviously didn't. So I wonder has it ever taught you anything? At all?

Yet here you are being rather dickish anyway.

a reply to: daskakik

You're right. Sorry. Leave your body and I'll give you a cookie....

OMG This stuff only happens on ATS. If you'll excuse me, I am out.

a reply to: Peeple

More dickishness, that force aka gawd doesn't do a very good job of getting its message across.

I believe OBE is actually a misnomer but that is how they feel and that is the name that has stuck.

ETA: Funny thing is that you came out swinging in defense of other's spiritual experiences and I dropped OBE into the thread, which is just another type of spiritual experience, and say that I do that without religious strings attached and that somehow triggers you to get judgmental.


ETAEM: I just remembered your the one that brought up 7 heavens and seven guardians but OBEs are what made you flinch. Odd.

a reply to: Peeple

My apologies Peeple my comment was meant for daskakik.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: daskakik

It's totally fine, whatever maybe you really have an ability I lack and really can leave your body. Wtf do I know?
Did you ever experience anything applicable? Learn anything from it?

Sorry I thought it was funny, I didn't intend to hurt your feelings.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: TheChuckster
I read the first page and jumped to the last and saw much had been written. Read through it all only to see the same ol' same ol'.

In that time an idea came to mind, maybe the experience was just a message from you to you. Maybe you were just telling yourself, just a possibility, that the idea of god held by most religions is outdated or outlived?

That wouldn't mean that god does or doesn't exist, just that you, despite "leaning towards faith" are not convinced by the popular takes on the subject.

But isn't it maybe possible you are doing the same thing? In another time, another place maybe you would have been a druid, or shaman?
Isn't the fact you're going places with your mind proof that god exists and it's just because you're fed up with outdated concepts of god that you ignore this?
Like I said before,

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: daskakik

Just found another pretty metaphor McKenna called it Imaginatrix. If you will the most scientific minds already proved the existence of god as they "travelled" to the "beginning of the universe" in their imagination.

The fact that you are able to experience something outside linear time and space, can remember and imagine past and future, is proof the conscience is not entirely bound to this "material dimension".
After getting called silly from you for believing this, I apologise but it was very ironic you come out of the closet with OBE. I didn't expect that.
Sorry



And I already suspected earlier you're just arguing for the sake of being difficult, so maybe you can understand why I reacted as I did.
Because honestly : Are you ignoring it on purpose? Or do you really not see the obvious?

originally posted by: Peeple
Sorry I thought it was funny, I didn't intend to hurt your feelings.

No hurt feelings. Just thought it was odd since jedi's and the force, 7 heavens and things mistaken for god if you stumble upon them are not that much different to OBEs, at least in my opinion.

But isn't it maybe possible you are doing the same thing? In another time, another place maybe you would have been a druid, or shaman?
Isn't the fact you're going places with your mind proof that god exists and it's just because you're fed up with outdated concepts of god that you ignore this?

What seems to throw people is that I choose not to use the label "god" for things like a life force. If the universe is a mmorpg then, there are creators but, that doesn't mean they are "gods" either.

The reason for this is because I was a very devout christian in my teens and I found myself trying to force my experiences into Christianity. I needed these experiences to fit my faith, to be from god.

What I have noticed is that most people do this. Whatever mystical experience they have usually ends up being attributed to a god of their traditions. Then came the new age movement and in order to bring humanity together they started talking about the source or universal energy but it keeps being god-like.

I see no need for it. Do you thank god for the rays of the sun or the rain coming down? Some people do and some people don't but, it makes no difference to the sun or the rain.

The fact that you are able to experience something outside linear time and space, can remember and imagine past and future, is proof the conscience is not entirely bound to this "material dimension".

That is what makes it spiritual but it isn't proof of god and, specifically not of any "particular god". I don't rule out the possibility of a creator but I feel very sure when I say that I know that the god described in the bible doesn't exist.

After getting called silly from you for believing this, I apologise but it was very ironic you come out of the closet with OBE. I didn't expect that.
Sorry

I never called you silly and I have never been in the closet about OBEs. I've mentioned them since I first joined ATS.

a reply to: daskakik

I didn't go through your posting history, so to me that was new. Oh well we can't all walk around plastered with disclaimer notes I guess.

I don't even believe in a creator, so it's double funny you could see yourself doing that.
But that explains your aversion to certain concepts.
And we heavily disagree on the mmorpg thing. Reality is real, the universe is real, no projection, no hologram, no creator creatures, the god thing is not what made it, just what it is arranged on. The membrane. What gives it structure and order.

Besides what does Christianity really say about god? In a nutshell, beyond the personal symbols of the various writers?
1. He is everywhere
2. At the same time
3. Knows everything

You probably disagree again, but I agree with you about god doesn't really feel the need for our "oh thank you lord the sun rose again".
Would be much more worth if we'd treat it with respect not the sun per se but our rare blue marvel. And if just out of self interest.

originally posted by: Peeple
I didn't go through your posting history, so to me that was new. Oh well we can't all walk around plastered with disclaimer notes I guess.

If asked I would have said that I was sure that I had brought it up in at least some threads where we have both participated.

I don't even believe in a creator, so it's double funny you could see yourself doing that.
But that explains your aversion to certain concepts.
And we heavily disagree on the mmorpg thing. Reality is real, the universe is real, no projection, no hologram, no creator creatures, the god thing is not what made it, just what it is arranged on. The membrane. What gives it structure and order.

Well the question that naturally comes up is what is "real"? All we have is agreement about a shared experience.

The concept of god is of a creator. What the universe might be arranged on doesn't fit that concept so, why use the term that goes with that concept?

Besides what does Christianity really say about god? In a nutshell, beyond the personal symbols of the various writers?
1. He is everywhere
2. At the same time
3. Knows everything

You probably disagree again,

but I agree with you

He created the heavens and the earth, his name is Jehovah and he will judge you when you die. Doesn't sound like a blank canvas to me.

a reply to: daskakik

That's the question, is it something with a personality? Where do I end and it begins? What's my perspective? How much of what I feel, think and do is really me? Does it influence me, like f.e. manipulating me into self destructive behaviour? Or is that just the background noise in my brain? Where do my decisions come from?

You know if you assume it's self aware and all knowing judging me... That raises millions of questions. Why does it care, where does it live, how does it do it, ...
For the sake of your own mind at some point you have to make a decision or it becomes unhealthy. Imagine permanently living under this kind of pressure? So you got 3 choices: get doomy in a broad sense of that, there are many possibilities, or try to be the "gods favourite pet", or preserve neutrality at all costs "agnosticism".
See the concept of good and bad in relation to god is purely human?
That's an oxymoron, good god, bad devil is a matter of perception of the "experiencer/believer" i.e. us. Projection, self-preservation, looking for the best way to survive roots so deep in us, it's the underlining force in basically all we do.
That's at the same time why god is such a problem in "times of high stress/tensions". Because it's easy to say "this life is just #, there is something that knows everything (including how I suffer and how unjust life is, judging can't be a problem, I am doing something good, if I do something to give those like me some impact)", but in fact god, the all-knowing, and seeing, the omnipresent, can't judge, he knows before you do it what you're doing, why and what it will lead to, billions of years in both directions.
God can't have a personality, or he is not all*.
All these influences which feels like an outsider, are various influences, your food, drugs, hormones, maybe parasites, media programming, etc.

Also aliens...

a reply to: Peeple

For the sake of your own mind at some point you have to make a decision or it becomes unhealthy. Imagine permanently living under this kind of pressure? So you got 3 choices: get doomy in a broad sense of that, there are many possibilities, or try to be the "gods favourite pet", or preserve neutrality at all costs "agnosticism".
See the concept of good and bad in relation to god is purely human?

I think that a fairly workable model would be a courtroom. You are the judge. As the judge of yourself, you still have veto power over the jury of your peers.

Another would be a discreet electrical component on a circuit board, which contains conductors and semi-conductors, and you have your hand on the rheostat. (an adjustable resistor so constructed that its resistance may be changed without opening the circuit in which it is connected, thereby controlling the current in the circuit. dictionary.com/browse/rheostat)

Bottom line: strong sense of self, however temporary in the grand scheme of things, however limited within all that is, the wall between you and the rest can still be seen as a semi-permeable membrane.

originally posted by: Cinrad
Who would go to the trouble of making a 4 dimensional universe, or holographic universe, or electric universe or 11 dimensional universe and then just leave it and not bother any more?

Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Genesis 2:8
The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.

Genesis 2:15
Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden tocultivate it and keep it.

Or in other words to serve and protect.

He didnt just make it and let it go, He put us here to look after it. Then something went wrong, very wrong. Then He did something to fix that wrong.

the story of Adam and Eva have dual meaning. It is not recognised oficcially as a christian text by the Orthodox Church. It was originally distributed by arabs. Here is what Sybillas had to say about it...

ADAM is the 4 corners of planet earth (GA) - (A)natoli that means East, (D)ysi that means west, (Arktus) it represents North and (M)esimbria that represents South.

EVA is a short term of the original name of the moon LEVAN (L EVA N). The snake, dragon, dragonian....corrupted EVA and EVA spread corruption over to earth and Holly father will vanish human kind.

its a promise... Corruption in the 4 corners of earth till the fall/destruction of human race.

The second meaning it is also related with the creation of their kind, the ones we name as Kronians or Saturnians in our language and also corrupted Atlantians. (in today terms we also know them as organic portals, soulless humans, politicians, bankers...etc)

It didnt happened yet, they do their best to succeed. Is the promise they gave and it also reminds them their mission, their creation.

So your answer is somewhere between these lines. Father didnt abandoned us, but the others do their best (with the system we living on) to prove that we are unworthy to him, in order to destroy humans and so they can take over the planet. That was their basic goal and dream.

a reply to: TheChuckster

"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"

— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125, tr. Walter Kaufmann

originally posted by: Peeple
God can't have a personality, or he is not all*.

The word god isn't only used for the all knowing, all powerful deity of the monotheists. Gods in all the religions have personalities.

The "it" that you describe does not. Instead of trying to shoehorn the word used to describe creators with personalities to fit what you are describing, it would be less confusing to use something like universal energy, nothing (what Itisnowagain calls it) or "the force" (you know you want to and everyone knows what that is) instead of trying to change what the word god means.

People and words are strange. For example a while back I got into a back and forth with a rastafarian, long story short they believe Haile Selassie I was the reincarnation of Christ. I pointed out the Haile Selassie I himself said that the rastafari should not make the mistake of believing that any human is emanated from a deity.

The thread became a ping-pong match of "deity means god"/"no it doesn't"